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Post by profh0011 on Sept 9, 2021 18:32:03 GMT -5
I hate to differentiate between feature films, TV series, live-action or cartoons...
I grew up with the George Reeves SUPERMAN, and the 1966 Filmation SUPERMAN (I actually forget which I saw first, sometime in 1966). I caught the pilot episode of THE SUPER-FRIENDS in 1973 and never watched the show again until its FINAL season, more than a dozen years later. (It was that awful.)
I'm sure I'm one of the only people who saw the 1978 SUPERMAN movie with Christopher Reeve in a theatre the week it came out... and just was NOT impressed with it. Certain bits were okay, but too many were just "off" for me. Making Krypton so cold and aloof... having a Jor-El who couldn't even pronounce the name "Krypton" correctly... the entire last 2/3rds of the film feeling like a big-budget episode of the Adam West BATMAN...
Clark Kent was too klutzy... Lois a self-centered shrew... the guy claiming to be "Lex Luthor" having NOTHING WHATSOEVER in common with the classic villain from the comic... oy.
A couple years back, my best friend sent me some DVDs with various TV pilots and random episodes of different shows. He included a 1980s SUPERBOY, and I thought-- hey, despite what looked like a ZERO budget, the thing actually captured the genuine feel of the Silver Age DC comics than any of the Chris Reeve movies ever did.
And then I saw the 2-hour pilot for LOIS & CLARK: THE NEW ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN. Oh, man. This blew SUPERBOY completely out of the water on every single level. Which means-- to my eyes-- Dean Cain was TWO LEVELS BETTER than Chris Reeve. WHOA. Never saw that coming.
Apart from anything else, the relationship between Clark & Lois actually started out-- and developed-- a LOT as Jerry Siegel & Joe Shuster did over about the first 3 YEARS of the comic, and did it in 2 hours. So MUCH character-growth on Lois' part. She was TOTALLY-unlikable at the start, and so much nicer by the end. Made me wanna see more.
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Post by mikelmidnight on Sept 10, 2021 11:14:57 GMT -5
I'm sure I'm one of the only people who saw the 1978 SUPERMAN movie with Christopher Reeve in a theatre the week it came out... and just was NOT impressed with it. Certain bits were okay, but too many were just "off" for me. Making Krypton so cold and aloof... having a Jor-El who couldn't even pronounce the name "Krypton" correctly... the entire last 2/3rds of the film feeling like a big-budget episode of the Adam West BATMAN... Clark Kent was too klutzy... Lois a self-centered shrew... the guy claiming to be "Lex Luthor" having NOTHING WHATSOEVER in common with the classic villain from the comic... oy. And then I saw the 2-hour pilot for LOIS & CLARK: THE NEW ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN. Oh, man. This blew SUPERBOY completely out of the water on every single level. Which means-- to my eyes-- Dean Cain was TWO LEVELS BETTER than Chris Reeve. WHOA. Never saw that coming. Apart from anything else, the relationship between Clark & Lois actually started out-- and developed-- a LOT as Jerry Siegel & Joe Shuster did over about the first 3 YEARS of the comic, and did it in 2 hours. So MUCH character-growth on Lois' part. She was TOTALLY-unlikable at the start, and so much nicer by the end. Made me wanna see more.
It's nice to meet one of the few other people out there who actually prefer Dean Cain to Chris Reeve in the role. I've never managed to put my finger on example why Reeve felt so 'wrong' to me when I've been fine with pretty much all the tv Supermans, but I saw the film when I was 14 and never gravitated to it at all.
I agree also that the early L&C episodes was during the tiresome period of tv when 'taming of the shrew' series were prevalent, and poor Lois for the worst of it. I'd say in fact this period is a near-perfect evocation of the awful, sexist Weisinger-era episodes of Superman's Girlfriend: Lois Lane!
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Sept 10, 2021 12:37:38 GMT -5
Personal favorites would be Burton's Batman, Thomas Jane as The Punisher, The Phantom, the Edward Norton Hulk and GotG. I haven't watched most of Marvel's new movies since the first GotG, and it doesn't appear that outside of Black Panther I have any interest. GotG2 was a huge disappointment. I also love The Incredible Hulk. Genius move creating a mash-up between the comic book version and the TV Version. I really wanted to see a sequel. What really surprised me about The Incredible Hulk when I watched it the first time is how all the actors/actresses involved did so well with their roles. I liked all the casting in Hulk but I felt despite the good roles chosen the movie really fell flat for me. And in watching The Incredible Hulk I was really skeptical of the casting. As far as I was considered the could have recast the entire crew in a new movie. But The Incredible Hulk cast really shined and made it the best Hulk movie for me. I would have liked to seen them come back for another movie, but alas those roles have already been replaced in the MCU.
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Post by profh0011 on Sept 10, 2021 13:03:26 GMT -5
It's nice to meet one of the few other people out there who actually prefer Dean Cain to Chris Reeve in the role. I've never managed to put my finger on example why Reeve felt so 'wrong' to me when I've been fine with pretty much all the tv Supermans, but I saw the film when I was 14 and never gravitated to it at all.
I agree also that the early L&C episodes was during the tiresome period of tv when 'taming of the shrew' series were prevalent, and poor Lois for the worst of it. I'd say in fact this period is a near-perfect evocation of the awful, sexist Weisinger-era episodes of Superman's Girlfriend: Lois Lane!
Comics fans can often be cultish and uniform in their views (ironic if you think about it), so it's always nice whenever you run across someone who shares the same "out there" opinions.
Again, I've only seen the first 2 hours, but, it seemed to me Lois did improve tremendously as a person by the end of that first story. Don't know yet how she was after that.
I never got the feeling that the 50s TV Lois was unlikable. I'm hoping to get that entire series on DVD some day. It's been decades since I've seen it. When I read the first few years of the comics (thanks to the ARCHIVE books, and the newspaper strips in those TPBs), my impression was, that the TV Lois was what Lois might have evolved into had Siegel stayed in charge. But when S&S got fired after trying to sue for a better contract, a lot of the comics in the 50s became mysogenistic.
And it seems a number of the girlfriends in the late-50s "revival" versions of series were as bad or worse. Jean Loring, Iris West, and God help us, CAROL FERRIS.
My best friend was just reminding me that he and I are among the few who really LOVE the live-action GREEN LANTERN movie. not only did they manage a nice balance between "Earth" and "Space" stories, they did the impossible-- they made Carol likable! They also eliminated that STUPID "love triangle" that was always a bad, bad imitation of Clark-Lois-Superman. A rare case of a movie being FAR BETTER than the source material.
I've been re-watching the Fleisher SUPERMAN cartoons lately. In some of them, it's fun to see Lois credit Superman's help in her getting a story, and Clark just smiles. But in one, Clark goes after a story, and Lois, in a totally-sociopathic manner, goes out of her way to STEAL his story, and almost gets KILLED in the process. WHAT THE HELL is wrong with her? And how can Clark put up with that nonsense? Of course, this seems rather faithful to the earliest Siegel-Shuster stories.
"I'll take you to safety-- where I'll be SAFE from YOU!"
-- Superman to Lois
The Golden Age Sandman and Flash both had MUCH-healthier relationships with women.
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Post by profh0011 on Sept 10, 2021 13:08:38 GMT -5
I just finished re-watching my tapes of NEWS RADIO from the late 90s. It's a totally-INSANE sitcom where every character seems to be outright NUTS in a different way, and among them is "Lisa Miller", played by Maura Tierney. For much of the run, I kept thinking, she would have been perfect as Lois Lane. Lisa Miller is every bit as obsessive about her job as Lois, and, she's involved romantically with the show's main character, "Dave Nelson", who seems to have come from some farming community.
Another actress I think would have been PERFECT-- frankly, way better than Margot Kidder-- was Stephanie Powers. I'm planning to get THE GIRL FROM UNCLE before too long, but what really makes me say this, is there was a 4th-season McCLOUD episode, "Butch Cassidy Rides Again", where she played a TV reporter, who was every bit as lying, devious, manipulative and obsessive as Lois Lane. Watching that story was like seeing a McCloud-Superman crossover or something.
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Post by Nowhere Man on Sept 10, 2021 16:05:01 GMT -5
Interesting to find fans who didn't care for Christopher Reeve as Superman/Clark. I've of course encountered critics of he overall movie, and the portrayal of Kent, but never Reeve as Superman. Personally I've never been able to stand anyone else in the role, certainly not George Reeves or Dean Kane who don't look or feel anything like the character to me. I didn't like Henry Cavill either, though I love him as Geralt the Witcher. Reeves was so good that he's more definitive to me than any comic version.
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Post by profh0011 on Sept 10, 2021 18:03:42 GMT -5
Everytime I see John Hamilton, I think of Perry White!
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Post by tarkintino on Sept 11, 2021 9:02:58 GMT -5
Interesting to find fans who didn't care for Christopher Reeve as Superman/Clark. I've of course encountered critics of he overall movie, and the portrayal of Kent, but never Reeve as Superman. Personally I've never been able to stand anyone else in the role, certainly not George Reeves or Dean Kane who don't look or feel anything like the character to me. I didn't like Henry Cavill either, though I love him as Geralt the Witcher. Reeves was so good that he's more definitive to me than any comic version. The Richard Donner film was at its best in showing the contrast of the very alien Krypton (and the distant personalities of nearly every Kryptonian), and the natural lives of those in Smallville. Those sequences were the absolute best of the film, and for me, that's where it ends. The Metropolis scenes, Otis (urrgh...) Reeve overdoing the "bumbling" Kent bit, and other elements were too silly (distracting), and considering how much Donner said he did not want his film to be perceived like the 1966 Batman TV series (a good thing), the Metropolis scenes walked in those footsteps, especially the mangled path set down by Batman's abysmal third season.
As far as Superman portrayals go, Cavill was a great as an aware, formidable Superman, a necessary blend of someone knowing he's not human (and aware of what humans intrinsically feel about aliens), and still trying to find a place among them. For some who were so shaken by his killing Zod, I say it was justified, as there was no other option; he was not going to grab Zod by the collar and fly him to the steps of the MPD, admonishing him for breaking the law. There are threats of a level that could not be talked down, tossed in jail, or reasoned with.
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Post by badwolf on Sept 11, 2021 9:35:52 GMT -5
As far as Superman portrayals go, Cavill was a great as an aware, formidable Superman, a necessary blend of someone knowing he's not human (and aware of what humans intrinsically feel about aliens), and still trying to find a place among them. For some who were so shaken by his killing Zod, I say it was justified, as there was no other option; he was not going to grab Zod by the collar and fly him to the steps of the MPD, admonishing him for breaking the law. There are threats of a level that could not be talked down, tossed in jail, or reasoned with.
I agree with all of this.
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Post by commond on Sept 11, 2021 21:30:00 GMT -5
The Umbrella Academy Netflix show is better than the comic.
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Post by badwolf on Sept 11, 2021 22:00:30 GMT -5
The Umbrella Academy Netflix show is better than the comic. Wouldn't that be an adaptation of the novel?
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Post by Calidore on Sept 11, 2021 22:42:43 GMT -5
For some who were so shaken by his killing Zod, I say it was justified, as there was no other option; he was not going to grab Zod by the collar and fly him to the steps of the MPD, admonishing him for breaking the law. There are threats of a level that could not be talked down, tossed in jail, or reasoned with. I'm partial to the idea that this was the origin of Superman's no-kill vow--he did it once, and the effect it had on him caused him to forswear it.
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Post by commond on Sept 12, 2021 5:14:21 GMT -5
The Umbrella Academy Netflix show is better than the comic. Wouldn't that be an adaptation of the novel? I don't quite follow you. Wasn't it an adaptation of the Dark Horse mini series?
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Post by tonebone on Sept 12, 2021 21:31:17 GMT -5
For some who were so shaken by his killing Zod, I say it was justified, as there was no other option; he was not going to grab Zod by the collar and fly him to the steps of the MPD, admonishing him for breaking the law. There are threats of a level that could not be talked down, tossed in jail, or reasoned with. There was no other option because of lazy writing. The events didn't really happen. They were created whole-cloth by the writer(s). If they had been clever, there would have been a way out, where Superman could have defeated Zod without killing him. Look at the slapdash script for that movie and compare it to something like Back to the Future, where not a single second, not a word, is wasted, out of place, or not important. Face it. The Zod killing was there because Zack Snyder thought Superman would be badass killing the villain. It was lazy, it was pointless, and it was bad.
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Post by profh0011 on Sept 12, 2021 21:46:53 GMT -5
It probably made far more sense for Superman to EXECUTE all 3 Phantom Zone villains in the Post-Crisis comics, as they had murdered EVERY SINGLE LIVING THING on the Pocket Universe Earth-- and planned to repeat it on "our" Earth.
What made NO sense to me, was how Superman could possibly have felt guilt over SAVING countless lives because of his actions. To me, THAT was bad writing.
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