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Post by String on Sept 13, 2021 12:49:29 GMT -5
A simple but hopefully fun question: which do you prefer, Batman or The Batman?
Another example, Wolverine or The Wolverine?
I like The Batman. If criminals are a superstitious, cowardly lot and Batman is a shadowy dark creature of the night, calling him THE Batman only adds to that mystique.
Feel free to add any other examples you may know.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2021 13:21:51 GMT -5
Depends....'the' sometimes sounds crappy to me...I won't say The Batman but I don't mind The Dark Knight.
The Superman sounds repulsive...so does The Spider-Man
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Sept 13, 2021 13:23:15 GMT -5
When Batman became "the Batman" again, I thought it sounded pretty cool and thought so for several years; it sort of created a distance between the other characters and the caped crusader. Since then, I started to feel that the relative dehumanization of Batman went too far and I'd much rather call him Batman. I'd also prefer him not to be a control freak with an IQ of 1,000, a moonbase with kryptonite missiles on it, and that he be BFFs with Superman (even though I read very little of World's Finest).
For Wolverine, it was always Wolverine. I wasn't even aware that "the" was a thing with Logan.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Sept 13, 2021 13:27:42 GMT -5
At least it's not THE Ohio State University. Pretentious twats.
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Post by Graphic Autist on Sept 13, 2021 14:43:37 GMT -5
The Thor.
The Captain America.
Nah...
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Post by dbutler69 on Sept 13, 2021 15:25:57 GMT -5
I've really only heard it with Batman, and I don't care for it.
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Post by tarkintino on Sept 13, 2021 18:32:54 GMT -5
A simple but hopefully fun question: which do you prefer, Batman or The Batman? Another example, Wolverine or The Wolverine? I like The Batman. If criminals are a superstitious, cowardly lot and Batman is a shadowy dark creature of the night, calling him THE Batman only adds to that mystique. Feel free to add any other examples you may know. It depends on how or why someone (in a comic book or adaptation) says it. For example, there would be no reason for Dick Grayson to ever say, "The Batman" to anyone, as it sounds formal or distant, but from the mouth of a villain, or someone who still sees him as a shadowy character rarely seen, "The Batman" plays into that mysterious image.
One thing I appreciated from the 1943 Batman serial was villain Dr. Daka (and his henchmen) saying "The Batman," for the reasons stated above.
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Post by SJNeal on Sept 13, 2021 18:41:26 GMT -5
Like others have said, for a handful of characters it works, but for most of them it doesn't. I'ma have to "nay"...  |
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Post by Calidore on Sept 13, 2021 18:46:06 GMT -5
For some reason "The Batman" doesn't work for me, but when the hyphen is added like in the very early stories ("The Bat-Man"), then it works.
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 13, 2021 20:57:30 GMT -5
It's a convention carried over from the pulps (The Shadow, The Spider); but, yeah, it has to be something like that. The only characters I can really only think of with an article are The Tick and The Question.
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Post by Dizzy D on Sept 14, 2021 5:19:11 GMT -5
Depends on the context:
In some cases you can even switch between both uses:
If you're talking about The Black Panther, you're probably talking about his role within Wakandan Society, while Black Panther is the person.
Similar The Iron Man is the armour, Iron Man is the Avenger.
If you're name/title includes an adjective, you get a The: The Ancient One. (unless the adjective is a colour, then it depends: The Black Knight makes more sense to me than Black Knight, while The Black Bolt just sounds wrong)
If you're the Hulk, you get a The, even if you never use it because Hulk hates definite articles.
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Post by commond on Sept 14, 2021 7:01:19 GMT -5
It really depends. I can understand it being used for mysterious types like The Sandman, The Phantom, The Shadow, or The Question, and also for some characters with adjectives in their names like The Scarlet Witch, The Silver Surfer, or The Black Knight. Doesn't work for all adjectives though -- The Green Arrow, The Green Lantern. Then again, I would always say The Green Goblin. I like The Flash better than Flash. I can go either way with The Hulk or Hulk. When I was a kid, I always called him The Incredible Hulk anyway.
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Post by Dizzy D on Sept 14, 2021 8:44:31 GMT -5
Weirdly enough it's always The Hulk to me, but never ever The She-Hulk.
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,333
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Post by shaxper on Sept 14, 2021 9:57:31 GMT -5
"THE Batman" or "THE Spider-Man" gives them a more mythic status; it removes all implicit familiarity between the casual citizen and the hero. On the flip side, it also creates distance between the hero and the reader, as well as the hero and fellow heroes. Robin should not be calling Bruce "THE Batman".
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2021 10:37:18 GMT -5
"THE Batman" or "THE Spider-Man" gives them a more mythic status; it removes all implicit familiarity between the casual citizen and the hero. On the flip side, it also creates distance between the hero and the reader, as well as the hero and fellow heroes. Robin should not be calling Bruce "THE Batman". But that's just it. It doesn't have to be a monolithic thing. It's not an either/or proposition. How many people use only one name to refer to someone in every situation? You could refer to the same person by their first name, by an honorific and surname (Mr. or Mrs. X) or by a nickname depending on the circumstances. All are correct depending on the context and situation. So the same person could say The Batman, Batman or Hey Bats! depending onthe situation and all would be correct. If Robin is talking to a beat cop or a street thug, he could certainly refer to Bruce as The Batman-"The Batman just stopped the getaway car." When talking to a JLA member, it could be just Batman-"J'onn, Batman sent me to deliver this message..." or when casually talking to a close friend could use a nickname-"Hey Babs, remember the time Bats (or Bruce) sent us to check out that chop shop on the east end..." and all of them work. Conversely the ever-pleasant J. Jonah Jameson could refer to Peter's alter ego in several ways. "Hey Brock, get me pics of The Spider-Man for the front page." "Robbie, you know I hate Spider-Man and I am not going to give him good press no matter what." "That no-good webhead freak is not going to get the best of me!" etc. Deepnds on the mood, tone and needs of the scene. Conversation, tone, social conventions of the situation, attitude, etc. all play a factor in using a definitive article or not to refer to a person/character/entity, just as it does in choosing to use a full name, nickname, honorific, or surname when referring to a person or entity, and using only one exclusively comes across as incorrect or tone deaf to the variables of situations (and in many cases bad writing that doesn't adapt to the needs of the scene, story or character). So I don't have a blanket preference one way or the other. I want the writer to use whatever is appropriate for the character in the given situation being written, and if it's a fan or creator talking about the character, then whatever works in the situation for them. It isn't a binary yes/no proposition, it's a nuanced multiple choice. -M |
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