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Post by DubipR on Dec 13, 2021 21:35:01 GMT -5
Hal Jordan. Dons the costume he's mildly interesting. Out of the green, to quote Ferris Bueller:
"Pardon my French, but Hal is so uptight that if you stuck a lump of coal up his #$$, in two weeks you'd have a diamond."
Honestly never cared for either identity.
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Post by tarkintino on Dec 14, 2021 0:07:20 GMT -5
I like Iron Man 2 a lot but the one part I hate is the drunken party scene. It's clunky, embarrassing, and brings the film to a screeching halt. They could have communicated his problem better if they had him screw up on a mission instead, and incorporated that into the ongoing plot. That's the problem: many of the MCU films are Marvel stories in name only and grab whatever they believed was a known and/or popular plot form the comics; in Stark's case, they played up his alcoholism just to say, "Hey--its a "Demon in a Bottle" reference! Aren't we authentic?" instead of his alcoholism leading to Stark paying some greater price. |
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Post by commond on Dec 14, 2021 7:01:58 GMT -5
Can't say I'm a huge fan of Steve Rogers.
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Post by tarkintino on Dec 14, 2021 9:00:26 GMT -5
Can't say I'm a huge fan of Steve Rogers. Steve Rogers--in the late 60s / early 70s--specifically due to the work of Lee and Friedrich--became one of Marvel's best characters, standing as a breathing anachronism in changing times, while trying to adapt to it (seen in his reaction to the social issues of the early 70s), yet suffering from the trauma of his past. His being the strongest moral center (arguably) amongst Marvel's superhero was achieved without making him a mouthpiece for propaganda (no small feat when handling a character named Captain America) roster made him appealing. |
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Post by MDG on Dec 14, 2021 9:34:01 GMT -5
Who cares a whit about any hero or villain when not wearing their costume? Phooey I say, gimme the fun and action adventures of on duty superheroing every time. You might as well burn all your Marvel Comics then...and any DC Comics from the mid-60s-on where they began to imitate the "soap-opera" format of Marvel.
I've heard it once said that "soap-opera" is much easier to write than "mystery" or "adventure" stories, which probably was one reason so many 2nd-rate (5th rate?) writers gravitated to it so much.
Writing soap opera style means putting the audience in a position where they have to watch/read the next episode rather than where they want to read/watch the next episode.
Re-reading Claremont's X-Men for the first time since the original run, what strikes me is how everything feels focused on setting up a cliffhanger at the end. The actual stories are often a mess.
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Post by profh0011 on Dec 14, 2021 13:02:34 GMT -5
Writing soap opera style means putting the audience in a position where they have to watch/read the next episode rather than where they want to read/watch the next episode.
Re-reading Claremont's X-Men for the first time since the original run, what strikes me is how everything feels focused on setting up a cliffhanger at the end. The actual stories are often a mess.
My younger home care client, at least once, has rather cynically pointed out, "Well, that's how they get people to keep watching!" The way he says so many things like this, and he refuses to admit this, just seems to say "THIS IS PERFECTLY ALRIGHT, THIS IS HOW IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE." But to me... good writing and likable characters should be all you need to bring you back.
When I was writing crime comics in high school, I made a point of always having a "break" between stories, and even when I once wound up writing a 21-chapter serial (21 !!), there were only maybe 3 or 4 cliffhangers in the middle of that.
To me, it's bad enough to have TV series with cliffhangers between stories, but I start to get offended when on top of that, they also insist on having cliffhangers between seasons, so NOTHING ever feels "complete".
And now that they're doing more and more movies with cliffhangers between movies... that's just silly and insane beyond belief.
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Post by profh0011 on Dec 14, 2021 13:06:35 GMT -5
Gil Kane at least once said he based Hal Jordan on Paul Newman. I found that statement quite jarring, for 2 reasons. Perhaps due to his pencils, or the majority of DC-style "smooth everything out" inks, I NEVER once recognized Paul Newman's face in Hal Jordan's. But further, I never got a sense of Paul Newman's personality in the writing. Maybe he should have told what he was doing to the writers. Of course, DC's editorial policy in the late 50s-early 60s always seemed to be keeping things clean and simple "for the kiddies". But it does seem to me, a comic-book character ACTUALLY based on Paul Newman's movie persona might have been a HELL of a lot more interesting than 98% of the Hal Jordan comics ever done.  That reminds me. I gotta get a copy of " SLAP SHOT". I still think that was the funniest movie he ever did. (And I have ZERO interest in sports!) |
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Post by profh0011 on Dec 14, 2021 13:11:44 GMT -5
On the other hand... THIS is my FAVORITE Hal Jordan story, EVER. This was WAY better than any of the Hal Jordan comics I ever, ever read.
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Post by tarkintino on Dec 14, 2021 15:19:25 GMT -5
What a horrifying, misguided mess that was. No understanding of the main character at all. Considering that two of its co-writers (Berlanti & Guggenheim) are also responsible for years of trashing DC content on their CW TV shows, the endless failings of this Green Lantern movie are understandable.
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Post by tonebone on Dec 14, 2021 16:12:45 GMT -5
On the other hand... THIS is my FAVORITE Hal Jordan story, EVER. This was WAY better than any of the Hal Jordan comics I ever, ever read. Yeesh. I'm embarrassed to just read that. |
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Post by brutalis on Dec 14, 2021 16:52:25 GMT -5
Ray Palmer. For decades he always felt bland to me when not wearing his Atom outfit. And even as Atom he was mostly riding on the shoulders of other heroes. Literally!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2021 17:34:06 GMT -5
Ray Palmer. For decades he always felt bland to me when not wearing his Atom outfit. And even as Atom he was mostly riding on the shoulders of other heroes. Literally! The Sword of the Atom mini-series made me see Ray in a whole new light...I thought it was such an unexpected approach towards the character that undid a lot of blandness for me. |
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Post by profh0011 on Dec 14, 2021 21:33:12 GMT -5
On the other hand... THIS is my FAVORITE Hal Jordan story, EVER. This was WAY better than any of the Hal Jordan comics I ever, ever read. Yeesh. I'm embarrassed to just read that. That's really funny!
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Post by tonebone on Dec 15, 2021 13:33:24 GMT -5
Ray Palmer. For decades he always felt bland to me when not wearing his Atom outfit. And even as Atom he was mostly riding on the shoulders of other heroes. Literally! The Sword of the Atom mini-series made me see Ray in a whole new light...I thought it was such an unexpected approach towards the character that undid a lot of blandness for me. It's time for a nice hardcover of this material. |
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Post by beyonder1984 on Dec 25, 2021 11:09:14 GMT -5
Disappointed to read a couple of posters ragging on soap opera writing and gatekeeping other genres.
Soap opera style-writing had morphed into the mainstream a long time ago. Buddy the Vampire Slayer was in the 1990s and that writing style has been copied many times, even today (Stargirl).
Soap opera writing found its way into the other genres and the elements of it are found in almost all the popular streaming shows of today, safely hidden from being labeled as a "soap opera" to avoid the stigma as seen in this thread.
I'm not referencing the tawdry romances/random storylines/melodramatic acting. I'm talking about the addictive cliffhangers, memorable characters, binge worthy storytelling, etc. They are commercially successful. I even see them in Korean TV shows. Soap opera writing isn't easy, either. Just sticking to comics, most of the Golden Age mystery and action stories were very boring. The 1960s-1980s soapy superhero comics still remain as king of the hill.
As far as non-stop action, I feel the 1990s showed how boring that could be.
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