Crimebuster
CCF Podcast Guru
Making comics!
Posts: 3,959
|
Post by Crimebuster on Feb 26, 2015 23:16:14 GMT -5
I'm listening to a Denny O'Neil interview on Kevin Smith's Batman podcast, and O'Neil had an anecdote about creating Kyle Rayner. He said that he, Mike Gold, and a third editor whose name I didn't catch, basically decided the sales on GL were crappy. So they went out to dinner and by the end of dinner, they had created Kyle Rayner - or at least the basic concept - and then they contacted Ron Marz and hired him to write the story. I thought it was interesting that it apparently wasn't a case where the writer pitched a new direction/character and the editors liked it, but rather an editorial thing right from jump street.
|
|
|
Post by wildfire2099 on Feb 27, 2015 10:19:26 GMT -5
That explains alot, though... like the 'lost' script by Jones they didn't use, and how it essentially took about 4 years (until Final Night, really) to truly close the book on Hal Jordan.
I kinda think comic book universes work best with a combination of a good editor saying 'we need 'x' character' and good writers pitching stuff. I think there was too much of the former in the 90s and too much of the latter now.
|
|
|
Post by dupersuper on Feb 27, 2015 20:44:02 GMT -5
I'm listening to a Denny O'Neil interview on Kevin Smith's Batman podcast, and O'Neil had an anecdote about creating Kyle Rayner. He said that he, Mike Gold, and a third editor whose name I didn't catch, basically decided the sales on GL were crappy. I always wonder about that story. The GL books were selling well enough to support 3 titles at that time...
|
|
|
Post by wildfire2099 on Dec 15, 2018 15:52:07 GMT -5
Rberman inspired me to go back and pull out my JLAs, so I thought I'd go all they way for my late 90s DC love Green Lantern Plus the Ray Marz/Kolins/Lowe Dec 1996 Rating: 3/5 Plot: Doctor Polaris has tapped into the magnetic field of the planet and is more powerful than ever! The Ray chases him across the ocean to Japan, where Kyle, having missed a Fedex drop off for an art assignment, is dropping of the package himself. They team up and Ray holds off the good Doctor while Kyle stops the tsunami he's hoping to wipe out Tokyo with. Kyle gets back and they manage to get Dr Polaris' split personality to kick back in and he defeats himself. The end! Analysis: Nothing exciting here, just a basic team up, with really very little character development. We do get a few scenes with Kyle in Radu's.. where everyones favorite Eastern European coffee slinger dispenses some wisdom. Some sort of after effect from Doctor Polaris' powers mess the place up, though.. poor guy. Strangely, Kyle has no thought that it might be a supervillain.. I guess the idea is he was wrapped up in getting his art submitted. At least it wasn't a 'first they fight, then they team up' cliche... they do know each other from the Titans, I believe (I kinda tried to go through the Titans issues Kyle is in, but they are so bad...) Ring Constructs: The regular team would have went to town with Manga-style stuff, but sadly Kolins stays pretty vanilla during the fight.. big gun for attack, giant green pillow when he says Arashi, etc. He does use a rally cool punk sea god (I guess it's Poseidon) Notes: A Japanese hero named Arashi makes her first and only DCU appearance.. she's a tech hero that also happens to be the CEO of the video game company Kyle is dropping art off for. They certainly hint at the end that she'll be back (perhaps even as a romantic interest), but other that reinforcing that Kyle is popular with the ladies, it doesn't amount to anything. Too bad, seems like she'd be a fun character. There are ALOT of ads, mostly for video games, but one for baseball cards (sponsored by MLB, not one particular company, which was neat), one for Action Man, and one for DC comics on CD-Rom that I don't recall.
|
|
|
Post by wildfire2099 on Dec 15, 2018 15:59:35 GMT -5
Kyle in the JLA: Issues 1-4 (Hyperclan): Just some random things from this first arc: They're still playing Kyle as an inexperienced Newbie...as evidenced in #2 when Wonder Woman says 'call me Diana, where in the same league' and Kyle says 'Yeah, right'... he does show some better confidence later, though, after the fight is won (even if they satellite gets destroyed) In #4, he and Wally have the first of many fun teamup moments, where they rib each other while fighting... Wally seems hostile at first, but he gets a bit more funloving as it goes on. Also Porter pulls out a great mecha that Kyle uses to take out the Mecha-ish White Martian. Fun moment there where the Martian changes to yellow and Kyle scoffs at it. Of course, as mentioned by rberman, Morrison refers to the ring as creating 'plasma' on two different occasions, which Morrison should know is wrong.. unless he was trying to change it?
|
|
|
Post by rberman on Dec 16, 2018 9:42:51 GMT -5
Rberman inspired me to go back and pull out my JLAs, so I thought I'd go all they way for my late 90s DC love Green Lantern Plus the Ray Marz/Kolins/Lowe Dec 1996 Plot: Doctor Polaris has tapped into the magnetic field of the planet and is more powerful than ever! The Ray chases him across the ocean to Japan, where Kyle, having missed a Fedex drop off for an art assignment, is dropping of the package himself. They team up and Ray holds off the good Doctor while Kyle stops the tsunami he's hoping to wipe out Tokyo with. Kyle gets back and they manage to get Dr Polaris' split personality to kick back in and he defeats himself. The end! My unfamiliarity with DC was showing; when you mentioned Dr. Polaris, master of magnetism, my first thought was, "Hey, Lorna Dane must have finished grad school! Good for her!" But now I see that the DC character predates the Marvel character by five years (1963 vs 1968).
|
|
|
Post by wildfire2099 on Dec 19, 2018 23:15:39 GMT -5
Green Lantern #83 'Retribution part 1 of 3' Marz/Banks/Tanghal Rating 4.5/5 Plot: With Donna out of town, Kyle goes down to the docks to do some sketching, and ends up busting up some Russian arms dealers. The art mood has left him when after he gets home, so he goes to a dance club to unwind instead of buckling down to work. He ends up getting picked up by a woman who tries really hard to seduce him, and turns out to be a crazy alien obsessed with killing Green Lanterns.. after a short scrap, she flies off, Kyle having told her his ring doesn't have to be charged every 24 hours. She says 'I'll take what you need' and runs off. Kyle, thinking she'll go after the other Lanterns, goes to warn John Stewart (he decided Guy and Alan can take care of themselves). John tells Kyle she probably meant his power battery, and we indeed end with a shot of Fatality stealing said battery in Kyle's apartment. To be continued! Analysis: This is the book when I really feel like the book took off and became it's own thing to me.. Kyle gets his own nemesis (and she's awesome), and Banks really goes crazy with the Ring stuff, and it is good. Even though Fatality is tied to the corps of the past, there's no mention of insecurity or Kyle feeling new, which is nice. We get more of 'Kyle is a playa' here, as first he dances with some girl who doesn't even tell her his name, and he thinks, yeah, this is good, I'm committed... tehn when Fatality hits on him he's all 'willpower'.. it's actually pretty funny and refreshing to see a superhero having real emotions (like not feeling like working and having trouble being faithful). My only complaint is that Fatality is a little too awesome.. if she's such a A+ GL assassin, why didn't John Stewart immediately recognize her from Kyle's description? Ring Constructs: The opening fight against the Arms dealers, Kyle breaks out just about every weapon you can think of.. futuristic guns, a colt revolver, a flintlock, flamethrowers, Ah-nold specials (as he calls them), and even a pirate cannon to sink the ship the arms are on at the end. He has some great inner monologue about it, too.. how his weapons are just the ring, so he controls the power and force behind them, while the real things are far less controlled.. it was an excellent point. The details are great.. like a mace that has a head that looks like Kyle's Mask.. great stuff. During the fight with Fatality, he uses a bird-shaped probe that reminds me of the old Silver Hawks cartoon, a few futuristic guns different from the ones before, and a alien head shaped shield (when he realizes Fatality is an alien). In the background... the club is called 'Disco Tech' and it's a space theme, so there are aliens on the walls and rockets hanging from the ceiling... a great touch. The first girl Kyle dances with has (part of) a Nine Inch Nails t-shirt on.. which is not the first or the last time they are referenced (I assume either Banks or Tanghal are fans)... there's also a guy in the back ground with a Giants hat on, which was a nice touch, I though. There's a Batman themed House ad in this one, must be one of the last asking for subs, I'd think. The letters are all raving about Kyle and Donna as a couple, and talking about marriage, which is WAY premature, IMO. Also, for those taking notes, this is in fact Fatality's first appearance (though some collectors consider her shadow in the previous issue the first appearance).
|
|
|
Post by wildfire2099 on Dec 22, 2018 0:54:28 GMT -5
Green Lantern #84 'Retribution part 2' Marz/Banks/Battista/Tanghal Rating: 3/5 Plot: John and Kyle rush to Kyle's apartment to save his battery, but Fatality already has it. She gets the upper hand and monologues while she has Kyle tied up. Apparently her planet was the one that John himself messed up with way back, but he hasn't made the connection. The monologue gives John a chance to be the calvary... he chases Fatality off with a blast of green energy from his hands he didn't know he had. Kyle chases her into space, crashing with her on a planet. As Kyle looks for Fatality and/or his battery, he gets found first by a Lovecraftian tenticle monster.. just as his power runs out.. no sign of Fatality or her crashed ship. To Be continued! Analysis: This was really an info dump issue, where are never great. It was fun to tie Fatality to the Warlords of Okarra complete with 80s Starfire in the background). Really, though, the fact that nothing triggers John Stewart's memory is story-related amnesia at its worst.... then we get the sudden power burst? It definitely feels like this was really a 2 part story that stretched. Oh, and Fatality kisses him randomly just before JOhn saves the day... it was really odd. Seems really dumb for Kyle to go charging into space with low ring energy, but it did fit with the moment. Ring Constructs: In the opening fight Kyle stomps down with a thing that looks like a Walker foot, then brings John across town with a scooter contraption that looks like it could belong in a Silver Age Fantastic Four book. IN space, he first uses a Jetpack, then a WWI prop plane, then finally a spaceship of his own chasing Fatality. In some fun irony, he actually is using the ring to create a lantern (for light) when the power goes out.
|
|
|
Post by wildfire2099 on Jan 4, 2019 0:29:36 GMT -5
Green Lantern #85 Retribution part 3: But Never Defeated Marz/Banks/Jones/Tanghal/Austin Plot: After crashing on a random planet chasing Fatality (who also crashed) Kyle is out of juice for the ring.. he fights a cool giant squid monster with the bones of its former victims, and does enough damage for it to give up and find easier prey. KYle finds the wreck of Fatality's ship, and lots of blood. Despite her injuries, she gets the best of Kyle hand to hand, though Kyle makes a good showing. She announces she's going to beat Kyle to death with his battery and eat him, but then the squid monster comes back. Kyle begs Fatality to let him save them both so they can fight another day, but Fatality refuses, actually tossing the battery away. Kyle manages to escape while Fatality seems to get eaten (only her detached arm remains) as he heads home to a worried John Stewart and Donna Troy. Analysis: UGh.. the down side of Daryl Banks is that he needs alot of fill ins... this one is credit to him and the fill in guys, but it's clear he did like 2 pages and the cover. Jones isn't terrible, but he's not great, either. The squid monster is pretty cool though. While the story is totally predictable and the usual stretch for the combat (Kyle should have gotten killed pretty quickly), it does have some good character stuff. Kyle opines about the use of force and how he can't control it hand to hand, and considers how he should be better without the ring (not that that ever happens). He also shows his heroism when he actually tries to save Fatality just after she announces she wants to kill him and have him for lunch. Fatality, to no one's surprise, is of course not dead, but I think it is a while before she comes back.
|
|
|
Post by wildfire2099 on Jan 30, 2019 0:02:55 GMT -5
Green Lantern #86 'Three's Company' Marz/Johnson/Tanghal Plot: Kyle goes to Chinatown to get some Moo Shu Pork for Donna's homecoming, and fights some bad guys. He gets home to find Jade in is shower, desperate for a place to stay. He has a brief fight with Obsidian (who pops in to make sure Jade is ok, then Donna comes home just in time to see Jade half-naked and draped over Kyle. To be Continued? Comments: If it didn't have such an important plot element in it like Jade moving in, it could almost be a fill-in... nothing really happens. It does have a great scene where Kyle gets home and grabs a coffee at Radu's and you meet all his neighbors... the model he drew early in the series, a couple playing scrabble, and my favorite, Cleveland, a blind guy that give Kyle classic jazz to listen to in exchange for modern industrial music (I assume either Marz or Tanghal is the fan.. this time he shouts out Stabbing Westward and Black 47, who I don't know). The fact that Jade broke into Kyle's apartment and helped herself to a shower is pretty weird, especially for a superhero, just because the guy knows her dad, but it's comics. The character stuff is good, though REALLY heavy on the Kyle-the-Playa theme. he saves a girl in Chinatown he clearly considered taking home, and Jade has to yell at him to look at her face when they talk. Ring Contructs: Johnson does pretty decent... we get a cool dragon during the Chinatown fight, and some nunchuks of course (a bit of a Way of the Rat preview), and a Dragon Shield. Kyle does his best Peter Parker impression with a Green backpack to carry his take out in. During his brief fight with Obsidian, is uses a stadium light rack, then a construct of his lantern (which we've seen before) The letters page is referencing issue 81, so it's full of Hal love.
|
|
|
Post by wildfire2099 on Aug 25, 2019 11:50:37 GMT -5
Green Lantern/Flash: Faster Friends (part 1) Flash/Green Lantern: Faster Friends (part 2) Part 1 by: Ron Marz and 87 different artists Part 2 by Waid/Augustyn/Semeiks Plot: Part 1: Back in the 40s, Jay Garrick and Alan Scott's first team up (or so it's implied) was to help the government captured Alien X... they did it, and become best buds later. 60 years later, the alien is still here.. he intended to wait until us silly humans got bored probing him and got home, but apparently we've given him cancer and he's dying, and now he's pissed. Jay and Alan get the call, and their wives figure out the big secret they've kept and call Kyle and Wally to help. They head to where the alien's ship is hidden, and there's a fight. Alien X is bitter and wants revenge.. Kyle tries to make friends, but the Alien says 'maybe if you were around then, but not it's too late'.. he does something in his ship and it blows up. part 2: We find out Jay is dying, and hasn't told anyone.. some good drama there if you're a Flash fan. Turns out Alien X turned on a homing beacon so these giant space ants would come to Earth and devour everyone. (even though he appeared to blow up his ship).. the heroes everywhere are trying, but there's just too many (we get a nice montage of other Justice Leaguers fighting them). The GLs and Flashes go back to Antarctica to see if they can figure it out.. and there's the ship, operating portals where the alien bugs come through. Kyle and Wally jump through, and get their brains swapped.. Jay and Alan follow. After some very silver age character bits, everyone gets together and fights the alien queen, comes to an understanding with it, and we all live happily ever after.. oh, and the alien portal that sends them home give Jay some of Alan's magic youth-ness, so he's not dying anymore. Yay! Notes: I remembered this mini with great fondness... it was one of those 'Prestige' format ones that DC so loved in the late 90s (I admit I like'em too.. I have lots of them).. but, man, is it terrible in hindsight. The 1st part has literally seven artists (5 pencillers and 2 inkers), and it's a mess. Only one (Jeff Johnson, who did a medicore fill in a few issues back) is a regular GL artist. The plot of an alien that was a huge secret and in Roswell for 60 years is REALLY dumb. Fine, in 1940 they capture him. Once Jay and Alan know about aliens, don't they fix that? Why does it have to be a 'shameful secret'. Why did the govenment WANT to keep him, when they know about Superman and Martian Manhunter and Starfire and the Dominators and 100 other aliens? Makes NO SENSE. The main character riff is Wally doesn't respect Kyle because he didn't work for his role, which isn't unreasonable, and Kyle is demoted back to having no clue how to do anything... as if this was written 2 or 3 years ago (maybe it was?) They do the body switching thing to have them better understand each other, but honestly it doesn't really do much, they still snipe at each other after... there's far better character interactions between the two in the pages of Morrison's JLA. The one redeeming factor here was Kyle using his art knowledge to help figure stuff out.. that was pretty fun, but it was at the expense of his handling the ring worse than on his first appearance. One little minor thing that bugged me, Wally mentioned how his was a Titan, as part of his 'training'... Kyle was too! (not that I don't want to forget that version of the team too, but still...) This is a good example either of how I had poor taste when I was first into comics, or maybe just the Rose colored Nostalgia glasses.
|
|
|
Post by profh0011 on Aug 25, 2019 17:28:59 GMT -5
I think I've always liked Kyle Rayner in every story I've read him in. It was only the behind-the-scenes B.S. involved in his debut that rubbed me (and, apparently, about HALF of all GL fans everywhere) the wrong way. Let me put it this way... Kevin Dooley had a HELL of a lot of nerve, on one of the Silver Age GL Archive books, referring to himself as "Green Lantern's Number One Fan". LIKE HELL.
|
|