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Post by Icctrombone on Jun 12, 2022 7:06:05 GMT -5
I am confused too? Thing only thing we are pretty sure of is Stan's story of the creation of Spider-Man is BS. But it was never claimed Kirby wrote Spider-Man stories. At a certain point Ditko was, and turning in finished pages for Stan to dialog. They weren't talking to each other. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that wasn't always the case. They worked together at the beginning. |
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Post by chaykinstevens on Jun 12, 2022 7:09:23 GMT -5
Speaking of bland, Steranko is writing CAPTAIN AMERICA now, and while I like it better than his writing on S.H.I.E.L.D., I'm still not "wowed". Stan Lee scripted Cap #110 over Steranko's plot. Rick Jones becoming a new Bucky was demanded by Lee. Stan preferred obfuscating the credits to explicitly stating someone else had done the plotting. |
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Post by kirby101 on Jun 12, 2022 8:27:01 GMT -5
I am confused too? Thing only thing we are pretty sure of is Stan's story of the creation of Spider-Man is BS. But it was never claimed Kirby wrote Spider-Man stories. At a certain point Ditko was, and turning in finished pages for Stan to dialog. They weren't talking to each other. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that wasn't always the case. They worked together at the beginning. Yes, they did. They talked over stories, most of the villains were created by Ditko, but they had story conferences. I would say Stan was the one who gave Peter his personality and the angst was more Lee than Ditko, but by the issues in the late 20s, it was mostly Ditko. The Master Planner (30-33) story was all his. But I give Stan credit for a great script for that. |
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Post by kirby101 on Jun 12, 2022 8:34:39 GMT -5
And remember, when we say Stan wrote a story, well it was usually a loose plot worked out in a conference. So the artist was always the co-writer. And often it would be, then we have five or six pages of a fight, but then this happens, and it was up to the artist to figure out how "this" happens.
Let's praise Stan for the things he did do, but not keep giving him credit for the things he didn't.
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Post by chaykinstevens on Jun 12, 2022 11:25:22 GMT -5
Stan has a long history of having ghost writers while he is credited as writer. This was true for at least half the run of the Spidey newspaper strips for instance, and for a large chunk of the stories put out by Timely/Atlas in the period between the "Golden" and "Silver Age." Do you know the names of any of Lee's ghosts? |
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Post by chaykinstevens on Jun 12, 2022 12:01:23 GMT -5
Yes, they did. They talked over stories, most of the villains were created by Ditko, but they had story conferences. I would say Stan was the one who gave Peter his personality and the angst was more Lee than Ditko, but by the issues in the late 20s, it was mostly Ditko. The Master Planner (30-33) story was all his. But I give Stan credit for a great script for that. Lee's scripting had its faults. In ASM #30 he managed to misidentify the Master Planner's men as working for the Cat.  |
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Post by Farrar on Jun 12, 2022 15:15:09 GMT -5
Stan has a long history of having ghost writers while he is credited as writer. This was true for at least half the run of the Spidey newspaper strips for instance, and for a large chunk of the stories put out by Timely/Atlas in the period between the "Golden" and "Silver Age." Do you know the names of any of Lee's ghosts? Re the Spidey syndicated strip: after Stan died, it was revealed that Roy Thomas did the scripting, since around 2000. Here's one such online source about it: www.syfy.com/syfy-wire/roy-thomas-on-amazing-spider-man-comic-strip |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2022 18:41:10 GMT -5
Stan has a long history of having ghost writers while he is credited as writer. This was true for at least half the run of the Spidey newspaper strips for instance, and for a large chunk of the stories put out by Timely/Atlas in the period between the "Golden" and "Silver Age." Do you know the names of any of Lee's ghosts? Bob Beerbohm has released excerpts of several interviews he has done with writers from the 1950s and 1960s who claim to have been ghost writers for Lee, and says the full interviews and material on the matter will be a part of his massive history of the comics industry if/when he ever finishes it. I don't remember the names of the writers off hand, but if you look up Beerbohm on his social media and look through his posts, you will find those posts. I first saw them 2-3 years ago, and he reposts them periodically, but I haven't noted them down after I read them. Roy Thomas ghosted for Stan on the Spidey strip for a long time. It was an open secret Stan wasn't writing it any longer, but the strip still credited him as writer (not uncommon in the syndicated strip industry, as many long-running strips carried the name of its famous creator long after they had retired from creating the strip, but it still is a ghost writer situation where the creator is receiving printed credit but not actually writing the strip). -M |
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Post by Myke Gee on Jun 13, 2022 17:49:53 GMT -5
Finishing up the 1968 books with a slightly revised review of the December 1968 comics from Marvel. I hope that everyone enjoys it.*Originally posted on Facebook on March 10, 2019*
DECEMBER 1968
Part two to my "Comics Overtime" post from yesterday. So, with no further delay.....
What was Mightily Amazing and Incredibly Fantastic: AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #70. FANTASTIC FOUR #84. DOCTOR STRANGE #178. AVENGERS #61. THOR #162. Once again, another month of more greatness than tedium. ASM continues with the Tablet Saga. Spidey loses it for a sec and JJJ collapses. Of course, his actions land him in trouble with the cops aaannd such is life for Spidey!! GREAT stuff!! FF #84 was an excellent setup for the next big brawl with Doom. Looks like they'll be powerless again. Where's DD when you need him? 😉 The Dr. Strange/Avengers story was also very exciting, although, since they had never seen the masked version, I found it odd that they just accepted that he was who he said he was. Still, Ymir and Surtur were here. Good enough!! Thor and Ego the Living Planet vs Galactus!!! Lee, Kirby, and Colletta give us action and drama. This was edge-of-your-seat reading! For a character that I've never really been into as a solo star, Thor has been blowing me away!!!
What was pretty gosh-darn good: CAPTAIN AMERICA #111. INCREDIBLE HULK #113. IRON MAN #11. SUB-MARINER #11. X-MEN #53. Last month, I mistakenly said that that was the issue where Steranko started to deal with Captain America's secret identity issue. It was, actually, this issue. While I haven't been overwhelmed by Steranko's writing, he seems more comfortable writing about huge criminal organizations like Hydra and keeping the stories, somewhat, rooted in the spy genre. Really good stuff here and I can't wait to see how he finishes it. Despite the fact that the Sub-Mariner fought cornball Captain Barracuda 🙄, this was another solid issue. Not really a big fan of Serpent Crown stories, but, it's working here. So, the Mandarin....*sigh* how is this goofball Iron Man's arch-enemy? This blowhard, who never makes a mistake in his own mind, guesses Iron Man's true identity. Yet, is so easily thrown off the scent by a rubber mask worn by Stark, lol!!! While in the Hulk's book, he decides to team up with the Sandman to get revenge on the Hulk after their last encounter in INCREDIBLE HULK #108. The idiot has 10 power rings of immense power and he's bragging to the Sandman....THE SANDMAN, now, about his "mastery" of karate! Goof! BALL!! 😂😂😂 I was disappointed in, somewhat, was the X-Men issue. I'm a Blastaar fan and I couldn't wait to see him battle the X-Men, but the book, while pretty decent, had an inventory story feel to it. Still, these were some fun issues. Not perfect, but really good reads.
What was...."Meh..": CAPTAIN MARVEL #11. S.H.I.E.L.D. #10. DAREDEVIL #49. MARVEL SUPER-HEROES #19. DD #49 had moments, but *sigh* Starr Saxon and his Not-So-Awesome Android really did nothing for me. *Yawn* Anyway...Captain Marvel got a makeover in his book. *YAWN* Okay, so, Ka-Zar is the star of the month in MSH. He has GOT to be the most inconsistently written character in the history of comics. One minute he's: "Ka-Zar mightier than Mastadon!!!!" The next: "The ties that bind us must not be burned as so much dross..." Um, no...he actually said that this issue. 😏😆😂 Anyway...*YYAAAWWNN* And last and...probably, least, we have S.H.I.E.L.D. #10. *YYAaAAaAAAaaaaWWWwnnNNN!!!* 😴😴😴😴😴😴😴
Until next time, folks.  
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,197 
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Post by Confessor on Jun 13, 2022 19:07:28 GMT -5
What was pretty gosh-darn good: CAPTAIN AMERICA #111. Last month, I mistakenly said that that was the issue where Steranko started to deal with Captain America's secret identity issue. It was, actually, this issue. While I haven't been overwhelmed by Steranko's writing, he seems more comfortable writing about huge criminal organizations like Hydra and keeping the stories, somewhat, rooted in the spy genre. Really good stuff here and I can't wait to see how he finishes it. Steranko's short run on Captain America is the best Captain America of the Silver Age. There! I said it (oops, wrong thread). |
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Post by EdoBosnar on Jun 14, 2022 2:50:31 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm a bit surprised at your apparent dislike/indifference to the Steranko Cap issues. I first read those in a hard-cover 'British annual' back in 1981 or so and was immediately transfixed. I've read them a number of times since and I'm still impressed by them.
As for Ka-Zar: yeah, nobody really knew what to do with him until Bruce Jones gave his personality a makeover in the early 1980s series.
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Post by Icctrombone on Jun 14, 2022 7:08:53 GMT -5
What was pretty gosh-darn good: CAPTAIN AMERICA #111. Last month, I mistakenly said that that was the issue where Steranko started to deal with Captain America's secret identity issue. It was, actually, this issue. While I haven't been overwhelmed by Steranko's writing, he seems more comfortable writing about huge criminal organizations like Hydra and keeping the stories, somewhat, rooted in the spy genre. Really good stuff here and I can't wait to see how he finishes it. Steranko's short run on Captain America is the best Captain America of the Silver Age. There! I said it (oops, wrong thread). Yeah, but silver age Cap was lackluster at best. What’s the runner up, the Sleeper storyline ? |
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,197
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Post by Confessor on Jun 14, 2022 8:24:46 GMT -5
Steranko's short run on Captain America is the best Captain America of the Silver Age. There! I said it (oops, wrong thread). Yeah, but silver age Cap was lackluster at best. What’s the runner up, the Sleeper storyline ? Hmmm...good question. I don't know that Cap in the 60s was all that lacklustre, but I kind of know what you mean. The Sleeper storyline is pretty fun, I guess, as too is the Red Skull/Cosmic Cube storyline, but they're just not in the same league as Steranko's short run. |
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Post by Myke Gee on Jun 14, 2022 9:56:40 GMT -5
Yeah, but silver age Cap was lackluster at best. What’s the runner up, the Sleeper storyline ? Hmmm...good question. I don't know that Cap in the 60s was all that lacklustre, but I kind of know what you mean. The Sleeper storyline is pretty fun, I guess, as too is the Red Skull/Cosmic Cube storyline, but they're just not in the same league as Steranko's short run. The Sleeper storyline was well named. 💤 💤 😅 |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2022 10:01:31 GMT -5
Hmmm...good question. I don't know that Cap in the 60s was all that lacklustre, but I kind of know what you mean. The Sleeper storyline is pretty fun, I guess, as too is the Red Skull/Cosmic Cube storyline, but they're just not in the same league as Steranko's short run. The Sleeper storyline was well named. 💤 💤 😅 I'm actually quite fond of the Sleeper stryline, but it might be because I encountered it as a Viewmaster reel long before I ever had a chance to read the actual comics, and those Viewmaster Reels (I had a Thor vs. Grey Gargoyle one and an IronMan vs. Black Widow & Hawkeye one as well) were one of my first exposures to Silver Age Marvel-I had those before I ever got an issue of Marvel Triple Action or Son of Origins which were my intro to SA Marvel in comics. -M |
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