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Post by tarkintino on Sept 23, 2022 16:44:58 GMT -5
I am in the Andru was a down turn camp. I remember how disappointed I was when he took over. Almost every figure of Spider-Man looked weird or awkward. I know people like his backgrounds, but that didn't make up for the way he posed Spidey. YMMV Yeah, that's what I meant about Andru's figures appearing broken or in pain, and at times, his Parker--while laughing or smiling--looked maniacal.
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Post by kirby101 on Sept 23, 2022 18:19:54 GMT -5
Yeah, that's what I meant about Andru's figures appearing broken or in pain, and at times, his Parker--while laughing or smiling--looked maniacal. For me too.
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Post by tartanphantom on Sept 23, 2022 22:19:10 GMT -5
On the original question: Murphy Anderson following Joe Kubert on Hawkman. (This one might be a little divisive): Frank Robbins following Mike Kaluta on The Shadow.
I could understand that, but I disagree. I thought Kaluta was perfect for the character. I like Robbins, but I don't think he was quite right for that character. In that series, Robbins tended to draw feet small and disproportionate to the figure and the perspective, and at times his pencils or layouts seemed a bit rushed... but at least he still had a "leg up" on Rob Liefeld... at least Robbins took the time to actually draw feet, such as they were.
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Post by tonebone on Sept 27, 2022 15:41:08 GMT -5
In the glory days to ghastly disappointment category: from Michael Golden to Howard Chaykin on Micronauts. Oh, the pain... the pain. Chaykin could have easily knocked it out of the park, to be honest.. he just ....... didn't.
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Post by tonebone on Sept 27, 2022 15:52:49 GMT -5
I am in the Andru was a down turn camp. I remember how disappointed I was when he took over. Almost every figure of Spider-Man looked weird or awkward. I know people like his backgrounds, but that didn't make up for the way he posed Spidey. YMMV Yeah, that's what I meant about Andru's figures appearing broken or in pain, and at times, his Parker--while laughing or smiling--looked maniacal. I remember Neal Adams talking about Andru's figure and face work on Superman vs. Spider-Man. We all know that Adams touched up (or completely redrew) Superman figures, but he also did a lot of work on Spidey. He said that at that point in life, Andru had a disability (possibly blindness in one eye??? Can't remember) that caused all of his figures to sort of be warped to one side. He said you could hold the pencils up in a mirror, and see they were off-kilter. So he went through the book and fixed every instance he found. I have always wondered if Andru was aware of this. And, speaking of Ross Andru, Andru and Esposito's 1950's series GET LOST! is one of the earliest and best of the MAD comics copycats. They really got closer than most to the Kurtzman manic energy!
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Sept 27, 2022 18:23:03 GMT -5
In the glory days to ghastly disappointment category: from Michael Golden to Howard Chaykin on Micronauts. Oh, the pain... the pain. Chaykin could have easily knocked it out of the park, to be honest.. he just ....... didn't. Yes, it's hard to believe that those barely-drawn pages are by the author of Cody Starbuck! I can't even blame Milgrom, because he had done a very good job on Golden.
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Post by berkley on Sept 27, 2022 18:30:34 GMT -5
Interesting to hear about Andru's eye problems. Any awkwardness I noticed in his Spider-Man, I think I used to put down to the Ditko tradition of Spider-Man weirdness - because it was one of Ditko's innovations to put Spider-Man into some weird, creepy (in both senses, at times) poses.
(edit: I like the Spider-Man vs Tarantula full-page panel posted above and don't find Spider-Man's twisting and turning positions awkward-looking - or at least not in a bad, unintentional way)
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 27, 2022 20:41:04 GMT -5
Chaykin could have easily knocked it out of the park, to be honest.. he just ....... didn't. Yes, it's hard to believe that those barely-drawn pages are by the author of Cody Starbuck! I can't even blame Milgrom, because he had done a very good job on Golden. I looked through the art of Howard Chaykin, to see if he commented on it, but he doesn't. He does, at one point, talking about the For Your Eyes Only adaptation, say he inked his own stuff after that, after a shouting match with Jim Shooter. he said something about his sketchy pencils being hard for inkers to interpret. He was hustling work in that period, since the stuff he really poured himself into, like the Byron Preiss Stars My Destination and Empire and Michael Moorcock's The Sword of Heaven, The Flowers of Hell gave him more creative freedom, but didn't pay all that well and he went into debt as a result of working for Preiss. That was part of why he jumped on Mike Gold's offer of doing something at First Comics, which led to American Flagg. I suspect he had too much on his plate and let Marvel have the lesser work, since he had the least freedom on it. After James Bond, which was the following year, he had burned bridges with Marvel (under Shooter) and tried to break into the paperback illustration world, which didn't do much for his finances.
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Post by commond on Oct 4, 2022 18:59:55 GMT -5
If Alan Moore had written a Marvel comic, what would it have been? I keep thinking Dr. Strange, but that feels like a boring pick. Captain Britain? Something entirely original?
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Post by kirby101 on Oct 4, 2022 19:31:45 GMT -5
He could obviously do mainstay super hero. Look how handled Green Lantern or Superman. But for a series, he needed a book he could remake like he did with Swampthing. So a second tier book. The Silver Surfer would be great, but even something like Werewolf by Night or The Defenders.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2022 20:02:44 GMT -5
If Alan Moore had written a Marvel comic, what would it have been? I keep thinking Dr. Strange, but that feels like a boring pick. Captain Britain? Something entirely original? Well he did write Captain Britain for a bit. If he had taken a gig for Marvel US (rather than Marvel UK that he did CB for), I think it might have been a more fringe character he could have had more of a carte blanche with, perhaps something in the neighborhood of the Midnight Sons (a Darkhold book he could develop his own cast for, the Nightstalkers or something like that) since he leans hard into a lot of magic or mysticism, or something in the sci-fi range, maybe something like the original Guardians of the Galaxy or a Star Lord solo (pre new-GOTG iteration), or if he went more mainstream, something like Fantastic Four where he could explore wild sci-fi concepts and familial relationships. -M
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Post by commond on Oct 4, 2022 20:43:25 GMT -5
I could definitely see him trying to reinvent a Bronze Age title like Son of Satan or Werewolf by Night. I could also see him working with a group like the Invaders or the Inhumans, or perhaps bringing back some pre-Silver Age characters.
I did think about the Fantastic Four. Thor may have been interesting too.
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Post by Calidore on Oct 5, 2022 9:30:58 GMT -5
If Alan Moore had written a Marvel comic, what would it have been? I keep thinking Dr. Strange, but that feels like a boring pick. Captain Britain? Something entirely original? Well he did write Captain Britain for a bit. If he had taken a gig for Marvel US (rather than Marvel UK that he did CB for), I think it might have been a more fringe character he could have had more of a carte blanche with, perhaps something in the neighborhood of the Midnight Sons (a Darkhold book he could develop his own cast for, the Nightstalkers or something like that) since he leans hard into a lot of magic or mysticism, or something in the sci-fi range, maybe something like the original Guardians of the Galaxy or a Star Lord solo (pre new-GOTG iteration), or if he went more mainstream, something like Fantastic Four where he could explore wild sci-fi concepts and familial relationships. -M
I'm thinking the same way you are, about giving him lower-tier books to play with. Guardians of the Galaxy would be perfect, letting him have some 2000 AD style fun.
I don't see Doctor Strange working with him in charge, since Moore is all serious about magic, while DS's system is just silly exotic-sounding babble that lets the artists go wild. Moore would feel compelled to define rules and solidify the mythology, and suck all the fun out as a result.
I bet Man-Thing would work great for him. That's just the title character walking into other people's stories, so Moore would have plenty of freedom.
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 5, 2022 14:06:01 GMT -5
Well he did write Captain Britain for a bit. If he had taken a gig for Marvel US (rather than Marvel UK that he did CB for), I think it might have been a more fringe character he could have had more of a carte blanche with, perhaps something in the neighborhood of the Midnight Sons (a Darkhold book he could develop his own cast for, the Nightstalkers or something like that) since he leans hard into a lot of magic or mysticism, or something in the sci-fi range, maybe something like the original Guardians of the Galaxy or a Star Lord solo (pre new-GOTG iteration), or if he went more mainstream, something like Fantastic Four where he could explore wild sci-fi concepts and familial relationships. -M
I'm thinking the same way you are, about giving him lower-tier books to play with. Guardians of the Galaxy would be perfect, letting him have some 2000 AD style fun.
I don't see Doctor Strange working with him in charge, since Moore is all serious about magic, while DS's system is just silly exotic-sounding babble that lets the artists go wild. Moore would feel compelled to define rules and solidify the mythology, and suck all the fun out as a result.
I bet Man-Thing would work great for him. That's just the title character walking into other people's stories, so Moore would have plenty of freedom.
Allow me to present the Opposition Party Response to that idea. One of the reasons I never really liked Dr Strange was because there were no rules to his powers, which led to a LOT of lazy writing, where his magic doesn't work, until it does. The visuals were the only real interest for me, when I encountered the character. I would have loved someone like Moore adding a structure to the magic, thereby giving you better rules to craft more meaningful stories with the character.
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Post by Calidore on Oct 5, 2022 19:02:59 GMT -5
I'm thinking the same way you are, about giving him lower-tier books to play with. Guardians of the Galaxy would be perfect, letting him have some 2000 AD style fun.
I don't see Doctor Strange working with him in charge, since Moore is all serious about magic, while DS's system is just silly exotic-sounding babble that lets the artists go wild. Moore would feel compelled to define rules and solidify the mythology, and suck all the fun out as a result.
I bet Man-Thing would work great for him. That's just the title character walking into other people's stories, so Moore would have plenty of freedom.
Allow me to present the Opposition Party Response to that idea. One of the reasons I never really liked Dr Strange was because there were no rules to his powers, which led to a LOT of lazy writing, where his magic doesn't work, until it does. The visuals were the only real interest for me, when I encountered the character. I would have loved someone like Moore adding a structure to the magic, thereby giving you better rules to craft more meaningful stories with the character.
You know what? Normally, I would totally agree with you. Early Dr. Strange's magic battles read like watching the writer play chess with himself while also inventing both the pieces and moves as he went along, and as a rule I don't have much patience for that kind of thing. But for some reason, this was the very definition of tremendously entertaining nonsense, and I plowed straight through the collection of all those early stories without needing a break.
I wouldn't mind someone adding some back stories to the mythology, but Moore is so dead serious about the stuff he's serious about that I don't think his Dr. Strange would be any fun at all.
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