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Post by Duragizer on Dec 29, 2022 21:42:33 GMT -5
I'm strongly anti-copyright, so I consider the first concern largely immaterial. Using AI to pull a Roy Lichtenstein is unethical, full stop, but using AI to create what are essentially elaborate digital collages aren't.
I am bothered by the second concern. Corporations will use AI as an excuse to not hire artists once the technology's advanced enough; it's only a matter of time. A third concern, one which I haven't seen brought up often enough, is the environmental concern. I see parallels with Bitcoin, and it's well known Bitcoin mining worsens climate change.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jan 9, 2023 11:55:52 GMT -5
As for it being derivative art-I think there is a vast difference between creating derivative art and collecting images done by others to sell commercially passing it off as your own work. That's usually classified as plagiarism or fraud, which is also what is sparking a lot of the vitriol you are seeing. To be clear, I wasn't talking about the AI art itself as derivative work. I don't believe that AI art should have copyright protection. I was specifically referring to work created by humans using AI artwork as a component, in this case, a comic book. I don't think we're necessarily arguing against each other here. I also think the way AI is currently working is harmful to human artists in that it ignores their legal rights by copying their art without permission. I agree that legal protections need to be put into place. However, I'm very concerned how this specific ruling may unintentionally affect human art and human creators in a counter-productive way. If I take art in the public domain and use that art to create a comic book, my new creation is considered a derivative work and has copyright protection even though the art I used to create it is still in the public domain. Except, apparently, if that public domain art happens to be made by AI. To my eye, this specific ruling isn't protecting a human creator's rights by denying copyright to AI, which is what I think the intent is, rather it's infringing on a human creator's rights by removing the copyright protection they otherwise should and would have. This creates a lot of gray areas for me because it's unclear -- to me, anyway -- just how much usage of AI art will invalidate your copyright. For instance, let's say someone uses a piece of AI art as a reference and draws an all new picture from that reference. Is that considered a new human work protected by copyright? Or has the use of AI in the process rendered the whole thing legally AI? If not, how much do you need to alter an AI image for it to be considered human work? 50%? 75%? I'm also personally unclear on what the legal definition of AI art even is. When I am drawing my comics in Clip Studio Paint, there are a number of automated tools (most of which I don't even understand the purpose of, much less how to use them). If I draw something myself and then tell the program to automatically colorize, sharpen, and distort the drawing according to whatever its programmed algorithms are, is the resulting image now considered AI? I don't think so, but I'm not sure why. There's also the problem of even determining if something is made by AI in the first place. The comic in this copyright ruling was originally granted copyright protection because the copyright office didn't realize the art was created by AI, and then had the copyright rescinded after they realized it was. Setting aside the fact that this is bizarre given that Midjourney is listed on the front cover as the artist, it raises questions about how the copyright office is going to apply this new standard. I've been seeing artists on Instagram complain because potential clients don't believe they are creating the art themselves as it apparently looks "too AI" (because, of course, the AI was copying that style). So what happens if the copyright office denies someone protection because they mistakenly believe the art to be AI generated when it was actually done by a human? How can they even tell what's AI and what's not if it isn't declared? And if you have to declare it on the honor system, then it's not really protecting anything. The whole thing just seems like a giant can of worms that could potentially have been left closed if it was ruled that AI art is public domain, but derivative works created by humans using that public domain art are protected, as they are with everything else. Though, it probably wouldn't have mattered. AI activists are going to continue to challenge the legal system to try and gain broad copyright protection for AI works, and those efforts are going to be challenged, so we're just going to have years and years of legal fights over it either way. For me personally, I was initially excited about the prospects of AI art as a tool for making comics, but as it's become increasingly clear that the methodology behind the AI art is infringing on artists rights, obviously my position has changed. I've stopped working on the experimental comic I had been playing around with and won't be putting it out, and I'll be redrawing the one variant cover I had done using AI as a component. I personally don't have an issue with the concept of AI generated art, but the execution has been morally and legally questionable in ways that weren't immediately apparent to me, and the image scraping that is taking artists' works without permission isn't a practice I can support. I'm pretty sure that within a matter of years or even months, A.I.s will have evolved to a point where they'll be able to study images and use them to learn how to do things and at the same time avoid swiping, the way human artists do. Such A.I.s might even be trained to track and actively avoid swipes, so that on top of nobody saying "this crouching figure was lifted from Swamp Thing #6", nobody could even say "that's a Neal Adams pinkie" or "that's Kirby crackle". If they're not obvious swipes, I don't quite get why A.I.-generated art or scripts can't be copyrighted, as any such material must have first been ideated by someone; someone must give the A.I. instructions before anything happens. Crowd scenes in movies like LotR are often generated by computers, and no one decides that fellow #134 is going to move this way or that; it's just part of an automated part of the creative process; still, I'm sure we're not free to copy the crowd scene and reuse it willy-nilly in our own films. As you pointed out, it will probably be hard to defend the "can't copyright A.I. art" decision in court. At the same time, it's true that creative A.I. threatens the livelihood of writers and artists. I don't know how to feel about that. Sure, it makes me obsolete as a creator (or rather, it sets me against competitors who produce much faster for a fraction of the cost). At the same time, it democratizes production; it helps someone whose head is filled with stories but who's lousy at writing and drawing to finally try to create their own comic. I'm not sure the result will be that good, and to a large extent the person's bragging rights will be diminished, but at least the book will be there. And will it be so obviously A.I.-generated that it will be markedly worse than the umpteen books, series and films made by committee nowadays? I'm afraid that in the face of creative A.I.s, we old-fashioned craftspeople are like skilled factory workers facing automation. We can keep doing things the old fashioned way, but like typesetters using moveable type, we aren't competitive anymore. We may move into an era when only the extremely original and creative will thrive, and even that isn't guaranteed (as Joe Q. Public tends to favour the tried-and-true over the experimental). I was already bothered by the impact of straight-to-computer drawing, and now this..!
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