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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2023 8:09:30 GMT -5
In the truest sense of the word, I don’t consider Van Halen to be a heavy metal band (hard rock for me), but a little over 45 years ago (10th Feb, 1978), their debut album was released:  |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2023 9:05:47 GMT -5
In the truest sense of the word, I don’t consider Van Halen to be a heavy metal band (hard rock for me), but a little over 45 years ago (10th Feb, 1978), their debut album was released: This was the album that changed everything for guitar players. Everyone heard the solo piece "Eruption" along with all the other pyrotechnics on the album and overnight everyone was rethinking lead player technique. The "finger tapping" style of lead playing (fast melodies played more like a piano with two hands on the fretboard) Edward popularized became widely imitated, along with the brilliant loose "swing" of his rhythm playing. And then the whole approach to gear...the "Frankenstrat" approach of combining Gibson Les Paul type electronics (conducive for thicker rock tones) into a Fender Stratocaster type guitar (great neck feel for lead playing and the tremolo system for "divebombs" and such)...it inspired the rise of the "super strat" style of guitar in the 80's you would see everywhere (and continues on in so many instruments today, particularly in the metal world). And then tone...the legendary "brown sound" as it is known in guitar circles, there have been endless articles, posts, theories, rumors, etc. on how he got the tone on this album including whether his amplifier was stock and what gear he used overall. Truckloads of guitar gear have been marketed over the decades as specifically targeting this album's sound. Add the visual aesthetic with the bicycle tape creating his trademark stripes on his guitars...Ed was totally an original in every sense. Of course, VH was more than just Edward even though he was very much the core. His brother Alex (who in reality was more the band leader) brought terrific drumming, Mike's harmonizing vocals which really helped since Roth was much more showman than a legit singer, and then Diamond Dave himself. While the "full experience" with Roth was as a commanding live front man (charismatic as heck), his over the top swagger is fully present on the album itself. While the 80's hard rock and metal scene evolved from many influences overall, if you had to pick just one album that set the blueprint for hard rock and lead playing during that era, this is unquestionably it. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2023 9:13:30 GMT -5
Great write-up, @jaska
There are bands that have been influenced. There are bands that are influential. And there are bands that are BOTH influenced and influential. I’d say the likes of Van Halen and Queen, to name two, are both influenced and influential.
And that’s good. There’s nothing wrong with NOT being influential, but if a band can be both influenced and influential, then that’s good for me!
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Post by Axe Elf on Feb 11, 2023 19:20:28 GMT -5
I was a relative latecomer to Monster Magnet (within the last decade), but given that a Marvel comic book character was named after this song, it should have a place on this site.
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Post by commond on Feb 12, 2023 18:40:10 GMT -5
Disillusion is the album where Loudness come into their own. Their early records are good, but Disillusion is at the next level.
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Post by impulse on Feb 13, 2023 10:06:29 GMT -5
I'm listening to "The System Has Failed" by Megadeth this morning. This one is remarkable for a number of reasons.
First, nobody thought it would happen! A few years before, Dave had suffered a nerve injury in his arm after falling asleep with his arm over the back of a chair and could no longer play guitar, so he disbanded the group. Last-remaining cofounder David Ellefson sued Mustaine over claims Dave had reneged on an agreement to let him carry on the band name, and all this came on the back of a very disappointing string of albums (which have been somewhat rehabilitated over time, but that is another post). It was a sad, disappointing way for one of the greats to kind of just fizzle out with a toot instead of going out with a bang.
Second, Megadeth had seemed to lose their way over the years before this. After an increasingly-commercialized approach, they were largely considered to have gone too far in the late 90s, with the very hard rock-stylized Cryptic Writings, but especially so the much-maligned Risk where the band abandoned all but the barest traces of their signature metal sound for a naked attempt at commercial breakthrough. I have many detailed thoughts on these albums, but also for another time. After this string and losing two members of their legendary "classic" lineup, the band made a pivot back to metal....
Third... which was the incredibly disappointing The World Needs a Hero in 2001. Fans could tell Dave recognized he had to course-correct, and while there was an obvious attempt to move back toward their roots, it felt rather clumsy and half-hearted. It seemed he had gone too far into commercial territory and did not know how to let go, except the songs did not have the deft composition and blend as earlier efforts to fuse accessibility with credibility. The result was a confusing record that didn't quite seem to know what it was trying to do half the time. The mix was flat and disappointing, as well. Like with any Megadeth album, the sheer talent in the group ensured there was SOMETHING worth listening to, but compared to the sequence of 80s and 90s albums that preceded it, this was a very disappointing punctuation mark in the history of a once-great band.
So, it seemed like the band had lost their way, massive fallings out and like it all fell apart, and then Dave was injured. It was like the band imploded and fizzled out. I lamented that I missed my chance to see them live a few years prior, figuring I would see them on the next tour.
And then, seemingly out of nowhere, a new Megadeth album is coming out! And it was good. It was REALLY good! They had released the first three singles, and they sounded...like Megadeth. The REAL Megadeth. I remember driving to get it at Target when it came out and listening in my car, and I couldn't believe they were back.
And man, this album is GOOD. This was the true return to metal form he had been looking for, but he also recaptured his radio sensibility without compromising the metal authenticity. The album is just pure, good heavy metal. Not too thrashy. Not too slow. Tons of melody and lead work and guitar harmonies where appropriate, speed where called for but with a huge emphasis on groove. Great momentum and tempos, hooks galore, so much melody, and he even rehired Chris Poland for solos.
In fact, @draketungsten since classic heavy metal is your anchor, I'd strongly point you to this (The System has Failed) and the follow-up, United Abominations. This is Megadeth wearing their classic heavy metal influences on their sleeves most loudly.
Just an incredible album. I think I am going to listen to it twice in a row today.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2023 12:34:24 GMT -5
I'm listening to " The System Has Failed" by Megadeth this morning. This one is remarkable for a number of reasons. First, nobody thought it would happen! A few years before, Dave had suffered a nerve injury in his arm after falling asleep with his arm over the back of a chair and could no longer play guitar, so he disbanded the group. Last-remaining cofounder David Ellefson sued Mustaine over claims Dave had reneged on an agreement to let him carry on the band name, and all this came on the back of a very disappointing string of albums (which have been somewhat rehabilitated over time, but that is another post). It was a sad, disappointing way for one of the greats to kind of just fizzle out with a toot instead of going out with a bang. Second, Megadeth had seemed to lose their way over the years before this. After an increasingly-commercialized approach, they were largely considered to have gone to far in the late 90s, with the very hard rock-stylized B, but especially so the much maligned where the band abandoned all but the barest traces of their signature metal sound for a naked attempt at commercial breakthrough. I have many details on these albums, but also for another time. After this string and losing two members of their legendary "classic" lineup, the band made a pivot back to metal.... Third, which was incredibly disappointing 2001's The World Needs a Hero. Fans could tell Dave recognized he had to course correct, and while there was an obvious attempt to move back toward their roots, it felt rather clumsy and half-hearted. It seemed he had gone too far into commercial area and did not know how to let go, except the songs did not have the deft composition and blend as earlier efforts to fuse accessibility with credibility. The result was a confusing record that didn't quite seem to know what it was trying to do half the time. The mix was flat and disappointing as well. Like with any Megadeth album, the sheer talent in the group ensure there is SOMETHING worth listening to, but compared to the sequence of 80s and 90s albums that preceded it, this was a very disappointing punctuation mark in the history of a once-great band. So, seemed like the band lost their way, massive fallings out and like it all fell apart, and then Dave was injured, It was like the band imploded and fizzled out. I lamented that I missed my chance to see them live a few years prior, figuring I would see them on the next tour. And then, seemingly out of nowhere, a new Megadeth album is coming out! And it was good. It was REALLY good! They had released the first three singles, and they sounded...like Megadeth. The REAL Megadeth. I remember driving to get it at Target when it came out and listening in my car, and I couldn't believe they were back. And man, this album is GOOD. This was the true return to metal form he had been looking for, but he also recaptured his radio sensibility without compromising the metal authenticity. The album is just pure, good heavy metal. Not too thrashy. Not too slow. Tons of melody and lead work and guitar harmonies where appropriate, speed where called for but with a huge emphasis on groove. Great momentum and tempos, hooks galore, so much melody, and he even rehired Chris Poland for solos. In fact, @draketungsten since classic heavy metal is your anchor, I'd strongly point you to this ( The System has Failed) and the follow-up, United Abominations. This is Megadeth wearing their classic heavy metal influences on their sleeves most loudly. Just an incredible album. I think I am going to listen to it twice in a row today. Great write-up! Couldn't agree more, this really was the REAL Megadeth again, "Blackmail the Universe" lets you know right from the beginning they were back in business, and business was good!  I really thought Dave was done for after the arm injury, you are so right about nobody thinking this album would happen. I think it was their best album since RIP actually, and I realize I'm throwing some shade at Countdown to Extinction by saying that (a lot of "hits" off of that album), but already they were too far removed from their 80's roots for me by that point, whereas The System Has Failed just hit that right spot for me. And speaking of 80's, Chris Poland was truly the icing on the cake for this old 80's thrasher, my "classic line-up" will always be Gar, Chris, and the 2 Daves...Poland has such a unique approach to his leads (combination of the jazz/fusion background and the severed tendon with his index finger), I never thought we'd see him back in the band (and alas it was short-lived). |
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Post by impulse on Feb 13, 2023 13:03:04 GMT -5
Great write-up! Couldn't agree more, this really was the REAL Megadeth again, "Blackmail the Universe" lets you know right from the beginning they were back in business, and business was good! I really thought Dave was done for after the arm injury, you are so right about nobody thinking this album would happen. I think it was their best album since RIP actually, and I realize I'm throwing some shade at Countdown to Extinction by saying that (a lot of "hits" off of that album), but already they were too far removed from their 80's roots for me by that point, whereas The System Has Failed just hit that right spot for me. And speaking of 80's, Chris Poland was truly the icing on the cake for this old 80's thrasher, my "classic line-up" will always be Gar, Chris, and the 2 Daves...Poland has such a unique approach to his leads (combination of the jazz/fusion background and the severed tendon with his index finger), I never thought we'd see him back in the band (and alas it was short-lived). **side note... I fixed my post to actually include the album names I was talking about. I managed to type over them....** Yes, agreed. I thought they were done for, but Dave relearned how to play and came back. It was also intended to be a Mustaine solo record, but he owed the label another Megadeth album, so here we are. Now, I will defend Cryptic Writings any day of the week. I actually prefer it to Countdown. It's both unashamedly slick, glossy and poppy as hell, BUT it i also simultaneously ferocious and sinister when it wants to be. Where prior albums were more toned down metal, or later ones just nakedly radio rock, this one was somehow both radio AS HELL AND kicked MAJOR ASS at the same time. It's like a walking contradiction that works. They never nailed this balance before or since. Trust, Almost Honest, Use the Man, and Mastermind is still one of my favorite 1-4 album opener strings by anyone ever. The intro and main riff in Mastermind are some of the most sinister metal moments I've ever heard. Vortex is like a spiritual successor to Tornado of Souls. This is by far my favorite of Megadeth's more experimental efforts. Marty's solos are somehow almost even more magical that he could do this thing in the confines of a stripped down, simpler style. It's probably my second favorite Megadeth album after Rust in Peace and just above Killing is My Business. I know that's not a common list, but I said what I said! And while Dave, Dave, Nick and Marty remain my favorite lineup, Dave, Dave, Gar and Chris are a close second, for Gar's unique drum fills if nothing else. The band has never had a bad lineup. Everyone who's ever graced the revolving doors has been at worst pretty good. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2023 13:36:37 GMT -5
It's probably my second favorite Megadeth album after Rust in Peace and just above Killing is My Business. I know that's not a common list, but I said what I said! All cool...my list isn't common either, I'm the guy who thinks So Far, So Good, So What is their best, and that doesn't have Gar, Chris, Nick, OR Marty lol! The band has never had a bad lineup. Everyone who's ever graced the revolving doors has been at worst pretty good. Quoted for truth...whatever else people want to say about Megadave, you can't knack his ability to land talent in the band. I always chuckle a bit for instance when someone says, "wow, they finally got someone who can play Marty's solos"...Glen Drover, Chris Broderick, Kiko Loureiro, all nail that stuff. Actually, the only guitar player I've never quite felt like "fit" was Al Pitrelli, NOT because of lack of talent (he's a very fine player), but just seeing some of his live work with them and how he handled the leads, something just didn't "match right" to my ears. |
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Post by impulse on Feb 13, 2023 14:24:32 GMT -5
I get it. For me, it was Drover I never liked. Yes, he can play the solos, but something about his style and his own solos just rubs me the wrong way. I don’t like his note choices. I feel like he swirls around below where he needs to hit that climactic note and just never delivers. It’s constant anticipation that never pays off. I also find his vibrato style annoying.
Just my preference. The man played Marty’s solos live. I saw him do it. He’s just not my cup of tea, followed by Pitreli. His style doesn’t bother me like Drover. It just doesn’t quite fit.
This might be surprising, but I’m also not crazy about Kiko. Dudes a killer player, but I just don’t hear the hooks or melody magic in his solos. The most recent album though he closed the gap a lot.
This is just nitpicking between a bunch of very good players at this point.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2023 14:44:54 GMT -5
I get it. For me, it was Drover I never liked. Yes, he can play the solos, but something about his style and his own solos just rubs me the wrong way. I don’t like his note choices. I feel like he swirls around below where he needs to hit that climactic note and just never delivers. It’s constant anticipation that never pays off. I also find his vibrato style annoying. Just my preference. The man played Marty’s solos live. I saw him do it. He’s just not my cup of tea, followed by Pirelli. His style doesn’t bother me like Drover. It just doesn’t quite fit. This might be surprising, but I’m also not crazy about Kiko. Dudes a killer player, but I just don’t hear the hooks or melody magic in his solos. The most recent album though he closed the gap a lot. This is just nitpicking between a bunch of very good players at this point. Did you ever see Mustaine's list of favorites? From best to worst: Kiko Loureiro (2015 – Present Day) Marty Friedman (1990 – 1999) Glen Drover (2004 – 2008) Chris Poland (1984-1987, 2004) Al Pitrelli (2000 – 2002) Mike Albert (Live Only, 1985) Chris Broderick (2008 – 2014) Jeff Young (1987 – 1989) Broderick has to be total spite from the falling out, he LOVED Chris when he joined and honestly I think he was the best post-Marty (I actually agree with you on Kiko as well, though I thought he was perfect for Angra). I don't disagree with Young being lowest (even though he played on my favorite album), but back along the lines of your earlier point, if a good player like Jeff is the "low point" that speaks volumes to how great the talent has been in this band overall. I'll admit I followed Broderick over from when he was touring with Nevermore (still my favorite partner for Loomis!), and maybe there's some extra positive association because Endgame was phenomenal in my opinion, but I saw a lot of Broderick playing the old stuff live, I think he was the absolute closest to Friedman in terms of "feel". Drover I found interesting outside of Megadeth actually, I liked his solo album Metalusion. Nothing essential to go check out, but pretty solid I thought. |
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Post by impulse on Feb 13, 2023 16:27:31 GMT -5
Did you ever see Mustaine's list of favorites? From best to worst: Kiko Loureiro (2015 – Present Day) Marty Friedman (1990 – 1999) Glen Drover (2004 – 2008) Chris Poland (1984-1987, 2004) Al Pitrelli (2000 – 2002) Mike Albert (Live Only, 1985) Chris Broderick (2008 – 2014) Jeff Young (1987 – 1989) Broderick has to be total spite from the falling out, he LOVED Chris when he joined and honestly I think we was the best post-Marty (I actually agree with you on Kiko as well, though I thought he was perfect for Angra). I don't disagree with Young being lowest (even though he played on my favorite album), but back along the lines of your earlier point, if a good player like Jeff is the "low point" that speaks volumes to how great the talent has been in this band overall. I'll admit I followed Broderick over from when he was touring with Nevermore (still my favorite partner for Loomis!), and maybe there's some extra positive association because Endgame was phenomenal in my opinion, but I saw a lot of Broderick playing the old stuff live, I think he was the absolute closest to Friedman in terms of "feel". Drover I found interesting outside of Megadeth actually, I liked his solo album Metalusion. Nothing essential to go check out, but pretty solid I thought. I've seen his rankings before. I agree there must be a lot of spike and bias, not to mention how absolutely tacky it is to rank them like that to begin with, but Dave's gonna Dave. I agree on Broderick being the best other than Marty, possibly even better from a technical ability perspective even though no one can even approach him creatively. He crushed it on Endgame. I think his work being more forgettable on 13 and Super Collider is because 13 and Super Collider themselves were forgettable to bad. The dude's a beast when he's inspired. Now I think I want to listen to Loomis ha. |
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Post by commond on Feb 14, 2023 9:18:34 GMT -5
Been listening to some German thrash. I'm sure most folks are familiar with the Teutonic Big 4 -- Tankard, Sodom, Destruction and Kreator -- but there a lot of other really cool bands like Exumer, Vendetta, Deathrow and Poison.
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Post by impulse on Feb 14, 2023 9:43:08 GMT -5
I'll throw some on today. Of those, I'm most familiar with Kreator. Time to branch out.
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Post by Axe Elf on Feb 14, 2023 15:38:19 GMT -5
This isn't really metal--although if it wasn't on an acoustic guitar, some of it probably would be--but it's some damn fine guitar playing.
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