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Post by codystarbuck on Feb 18, 2023 19:09:12 GMT -5
Jimmy Carter, President of the United States, from January 1977 to Jan 1980, has entered hospice care. Carter is 98. Although you can debate his record as President and the effectiveness or failure of his administration, you cannot fault the humanitarian work he has done in the decades since leaving office.
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Post by Cei-U! on Feb 19, 2023 5:23:51 GMT -5
Jimmy Carter, President of the United States, from January 1977 to Jan 1980, has entered hospice care. Carter is 98. Although you can debate his record as President and the effectiveness or failure of his administration, you cannot fault the humanitarian work he has done in the decades since leaving office. Agreed. I didn't vote for Carter in '76 or '80, but he won my admiration and respect with his words and deeds in the decades since. He has been everything we could and should want in an ex-President. I hope and pray his last days are peaceful.
Cei-U! I summon the salute!
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Post by Rob Allen on Feb 19, 2023 13:01:10 GMT -5
I did vote for Carter in '76 and again in '80 despite being attracted to John Anderson's third-party campaign. After '76, I didn't vote for the winning candidate again until 2008.
When Jimmy took office, I was a junior in college. When he left, I was working for the predecessor of the company I work for now, doing the kind of work that I do now. So the Carter administration was a pivotal era in my life. After his tumultuous Presidency, it was wonderful to see him rebuild his reputation by doing so much good in the world.
I think I still have in storage a copy of the Playboy magazine with the interview he did in which he admitted to "lust in his heart" for women other than his wife. This, like calling himself "Jimmy", made him more human and relatable than politicians had been previously. Although in my case at least, when I feel lust it isn't exactly in my heart.
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Post by Calidore on Feb 19, 2023 14:52:14 GMT -5
I've heard him described as much too good a man to be a good President. I think it's a collective failure that this can be the case.
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Post by codystarbuck on Feb 19, 2023 21:27:33 GMT -5
I've heard him described as much too good a man to be a good President. I think it's a collective failure that this can be the case. I think there is a certain element in that; but, also, his administration had some less than stellar cabinet members. Also, Carter actually tried to address some major problems, head on, with some necessary sacrifices involved, that the public wasn't either willing to face or to accept, particularly the Energy Crisis. Many criticized his administration's approaches to world events and the economy; but, if you delve into any one issue or event deeply enough, you find that there weren't many alternatives to the courses he took. However, that means making a deliberate effort to research such things and it was easier to listen to talking points spouted by politicians on either side, with a media that increasingly cared more bout ad revenue than accuracy or in challenging either side to back up their positions with hard evidence. Carter presided over a period of major change and fallout from the previous decade and I doubt that any other potential president of the period could have done any better, including Reagan. Government takes time to steer a new course and by the time the Ship of State is headed in a new direction, you often have a new administration, which then takes credit for the positive and blames the negative on the previous administration (regardless of which party it is). At a human level, Carter had faults; but, he genuinely tried to use his position in service to others. Consider this; when he left office, he was deeply in debt, personally, because he cut many of the perks of office and paid out of pocket. The book deal for his memoirs helped pay off that debt and he then turned to using his name to help things like Habitat For Humanity, not to mention to continue to try to build world democracy and broker peace. He was involved in election oversights around the world, to try to bring true and fair elections to more people, continued to build on the relationships created through the Camp David Accords, to try to bring peace and stability to the Middle East and aid in humanitarian causes. He has been married to Rosalyn Carter for over 75 years. You did not hear of his name involved in shady deals, or stories of affairs or the like. There were scandals surrounding members of his administration, but not him, personally. His brother, Billy, was the closest to a source of scandal from within the family and that was usually his own doing, with Jimmy trying to rein him in. Besides, how many other Presidents put a headlock on Mr Wrestling II? For those who are grappling challenged, that photo is from the time when Carter was governor of Georgia. His mother, Lilian Carter, was a big fan of Georgia Championship Wrestling, the local promotion, out of Atlanta. Their biggest star, at the time, was Johnny Walker, aka Mr Wrestling II (Mr Wrestling I was Tim Woods, who wrestled in the Carolinas and Georgia and then was paired up with Walker, under a new mask, as Mr Wrestling II) and he was Miss Lilian's favorite.... The others in the picture, from left to right are: "Wildfire" Tommy Rich (blond, in back left), "Bullet" Bob Armstrong (in glasses on the immediate left of Miss Lilian), Tony Atlas (directly behind Miss Lilian, Charlie Norris (in back, next to Atlas), Dick Slater (mostly obscured by Wrestling II) and Mr Wrestling II. The story goes that after the election, Carter invited Mr Wrestling II to the White House, but the Secret Service would not allow him to be masked at any time, in the White House. Walker did not want to be pictured, in public, without the mask, and declined. I suspect the truth was that he might have been invited and was told by the Secret service that he would not be able to enter masked and was afraid that someone would get a picture and declined. I seriously doubt the Secret Service would have prevented him from donning the mask, in their presence, to have photos taken, after he was cleared into the White House and Oval Office. I suspect the story got embellished over time. It was the era when wrestlers protected their gimmicks and maintained the illusion of pro wrestling as a competitive sport, rather than a staged exhibition.
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Post by Hoosier X on Feb 20, 2023 14:38:12 GMT -5
The thing that hurt Jimmy the most was the Reagan campaign interfering in foreign policy by negotiating with the Iranian government and asking them to keep the hostages to make Jimmy look bad.
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Post by Prince Hal on Feb 20, 2023 17:04:18 GMT -5
The thing that hurt Jimmy the most was the Reagan campaign interfering in foreign policy by negotiating with the Iranian government and asking them to keep the hostages to make Jimmy look bad. Thank you. Yet another of many reasons I puke in my throat when people wax nostalgic about the Reagan years as though they were some kind of American Golden Age.
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Post by EdoBosnar on Feb 20, 2023 17:40:29 GMT -5
The thing that hurt Jimmy the most was the Reagan campaign interfering in foreign policy by negotiating with the Iranian government and asking them to keep the hostages to make Jimmy look bad. Thank you. Yet another of many reasons I puke in my throat when people wax nostalgic about the Reagan years as though they were some kind of American Golden Age. Yeah, the '80s in the US were many things, but golden age they were not.
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Post by Hoosier X on Feb 20, 2023 19:00:36 GMT -5
The thing that hurt Jimmy the most was the Reagan campaign interfering in foreign policy by negotiating with the Iranian government and asking them to keep the hostages to make Jimmy look bad. Thank you. Yet another of many reasons I puke in my throat when people wax nostalgic about the Reagan years as though they were some kind of American Golden Age. You’re welcome! It’s always my pleasure to remind everyone that Ronald Reagan was a stunning mediocrity.
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Post by codystarbuck on Feb 20, 2023 22:07:02 GMT -5
I think, leaving aside what went down during the election and after, the biggest thing against Carter was that he was acting like a responsible adult and was trying to get the public to do the same and they wanted to hear fairy tales and return to a fictional time of great prosperity, with 5 cent gas and everyone smooching America's backside. Carter recognized those days were long gone (or never existed) and that we had real problems and the solutions weren't going to be easy, but a few small sacrifices could lead to major gains. The 55 MPH speed limit was established to try to reduce gas consumption, by putting a lower limit on things, creating a great fuel savings. People didn't want to do it. They wanted to roar down the highway, like they were in a Formula 1 racer, on the Autobahn. He led the way by putting solar panels on the White House and putting an emphasis on renewable energy, not some treasure hunt for untapped oil. People didn't want to make sacrifices by cutting back on their energy usage and industry fought efforts to reduce emissions. The auto industry fought government mandates on fuel efficiency,
Carter tried to shift US military strategy to more rapid response, rather than the continued focus of fighting a large scale war on two fronts. Carter was a former naval officer and understood that we were not in World War II anymore; but, we were dealing with brushfires all over the globe. Towards that end, he established the Rapid Deployment Force, which largely got ignored by the succeeding administration, until they needed to suddenly move large troop elements into Saudi Arabia, to counter the invasion of Kuwait. The military was in sad shape, post Vietnam, with poor leadership at the top and low morale across the board. The reason Operation Eagle Claw (the Iran Hostage Rescue mission) was such a debacle was because the US military was not ready to carry out such a mission. It's only previous experience in such a thing was the Son Tay Raid, during the Vietnam War, where Special Forces soldiers carried out a helicopter assault on a North Vietnamese prison. However, the raid was an intelligence failure, as the POWs had been moved, some time before. Most of the experience from that mission had left the Army, by the time of the Hostage Crisis. Delta Force had only just come into being, in 1977, after Col Charles Beckwith had lobbied for a group that operated like the British SAS, back in the 60s (after a cross training assignment with them) The Israeli Raid, at Entebbe, demonstrated the effectiveness of such a force; but, Delta was still young and was not properly equipped and supported. They did not have their own dedicated aircraft, with pilots trained in special operations missions. The rescue used Navy SH-53D helicopters, with regular air crews, with little experience or previous training. They had issues with communications and intelligence gathering. The raid strategy was to insert a team in the Iranian desert, to set up a forward operating base and refueling point. They were inserted in a C-130 Hercules cargo plane. The helicopters came from the USS Nimitz and the raiding party were flown in on another C-130. There were 93 Delta Force raiders, plus a 13-man Special Forces A-Team, to assault the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, where 3 hostages were believed to be held, plus a 12-man Ranger team tasked to provide security for the Desert One base and then seize Manzariyeh Air Base, near Tehran, to provide the extraction point for the raiders and the freed hostages. 12 people to secure an airfield is ridiculously low and normally would call to a company-strength airborne unit, such as during Operation Dargon Rouge, when the US Air Force and Belgian Paracommandos seized control of the Stanleyville Airport, in the Congo, and then carried out a rescue of European hostages, from Simba rebels, who were holding them and threatening to kill them, while a mercenary column and Congolese Gendarmery moved in from the opposite direction, on the ground.
The plan was to rendezvous at Desrt One, refuel the helicopters and lay up for 24 hours, then launch the assault. The Delta operators would hit the embassy compound, the Green Berets the Foreign Affairs Ministry and the Rangers the airfield. Helicopters would land the raiders, who would then silence the sentries and take down the guards holding the hostages, then move the hostages to a nearby soccer stadium, for extraction to the airfield, to be flown out on larger aircraft, to a friendly base, while the raiding force provided security, along with Naval aircraft. During the initial rendezvous, a civilian bus stumbled across the site and was stopped and held, while Delta radioed Washington for instructions. A tanker truck also came up to the sight but ignored the Rangers' signal to halt and was destroyed with a rocket launcher, causing an explosion that lit up the sky, confusing the helicopter crews. As it was, the helicopters flew threw a haboob and there were only 6 out of 8 operable helicopters and the crews were badly shaken. That was the minimum required for the mission, loss of another helo meant an abort. While maneuvering to refuel, there was a collision and explosion, which killed the helicopter crew and support personnel on the ground. They aborted the mission and abandoned Desrt One, with the subsequent debacle of the Iranians displaying the dead bodies and the wreckage.
Out of that came the Joint Special Operations Command and a more unified command and support structure for special operations, including dedicated special operations aircraft and crews, as well as a unification of the various special operation forces, across the services. It still took another decade to be effective.
The Pentagon fought the Carter Administration objectives tooth and nail and did similar things in the Clinton years, when he tried to order special operations missions against Al Queida targets. The Reagn Administration pumped tons of money into the defense industry, but largely continued the strategy of rehashing WW2, rather than mobile rapid response. Carter had pushed for improving the US' sealift capacity, to move forces around the globe, intact, while the Reagan Administration focused on a 600 ship Navy, with more carriers and submarines, at high cost, plus missile systems, but did not address the sealift problem, wich is part of why it took 6 months to build up US forces, during Desert Shield, before launching operational strikes, in the Desert Storm phase.
Like I said, when you dig into events and issues, it is hard to find better alternatives than Carter pursued and he as a straight shooter with the American public. However, the public didn't want to hear it and wanted to be in this safe, ignorant little bubble. It's why we have carbon offsets, instead of concrete plans and initiatives to reduce carbon emissions and why Big Oil makes billions of dollars, but alternative energy companies have to fight disinformation campaigns to present pretty solid and effective opportunities for cheaper electricity.
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Post by EdoBosnar on Feb 21, 2023 4:44:52 GMT -5
Yeah, it can't be emphasized enough that one of Carter's biggest political 'sins' was talking to the American public/voters like they were adults. And that so many people apparently didn't want that - including many prominent members of the so-called 'liberal' (or, if you're to believe right-wingers, 'radical leftist' or 'socialist') media.
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 21, 2023 6:27:47 GMT -5
The world has been a better place with President Carter. He's 98 and that's a great run by any standard.
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,197
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Post by Confessor on Feb 23, 2023 20:52:22 GMT -5
The "rock 'n' roll president." As the great white hope against the Nixon/Ford administration, Carter had a lot of help in his bid for the White House from the likes of John Denver, the Marshall Tucker Band, Bob Dylan, and especially from the Allman Brothers Band. Here's an interesting article about his relationship with the Allman Brothers Band, who were, between 1973 and 1976, one of the biggest bands in the U.S. www.wsj.com/articles/how-the-allman-brothers-band-helped-make-jimmy-carter-president-e7a576c6As a President, he appears, from today's vantage point, to have been a pretty sincere and well-meaning politician, though his legacy seems (at least to this Englishman) to have been mildly disappointing. Certainly, the American economy suffered under his term, what with rising inflation and the 1979 oil crisis (though the latter was certainly driven by events that were outside of his control). But that said, probably his greatest achievement was in brokering peace between Israel and Egypt with the famous Camp David Accords, which he managed to get the Israeli and Egyptian Prime Ministers to sign. I watched a documentary about that two or three years ago and it really was quite some diplomatic achievement on Carter and his team's part. His pardoning, early on in his Presidency, of all Vietnam draft dodgers was a really nice touch too. He's also the first U.S. President that I can remember.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2023 21:51:09 GMT -5
I agree with so many thoughful reflections on Mr. Carter's legacy not only as a president but as a person.
I have pretty much checked out of modern politics, though I am not unaware of how bad political polarization is in our country. As I've kept up with the news reports on President Carter's health, it has been the rarest glimmer of positivity I've seen that the vast majority of people commenting, regardless of how liberal or conservative they may otherwise be, have such great respect for Mr. Carter's character.
I think this speak volumes of what's really most important when we reflect on those who are elected to lead and represent us, and I am happy that President Carter was "my president" during my very young days. While I can now better reflect with maturity and deeper insight what his successes and challenges may have been as a president, I remain proud that he "turned out" to be as genuinely nice an individual as in my innocence I believed him to be.
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Post by foxley on Feb 24, 2023 0:44:30 GMT -5
The "rock 'n' roll president." As the great white hope against the Nixon/Ford administration, Carter had a lot of help in his bid for the White House from the likes of John Denver, the Marshall Tucker Band, Bob Dylan, and especially from the Allman Brothers Band. In 1997, Arlo Guthrie recorded Alice's Restaurant: The Massacree Revisited: a new recording of all material from the entire original Alice's Restaurant album, as performed live 29 years later at The Church in Housatonic, Massachusetts.
At the end of "Alice's Restaurant Massacree", Guthrie launches into a postscript story about attending Jimmy Carter's inauguration in 1977. He comments how he decided he should attend because it might be his only chance. He then says:
"Been right so far."
He met Carter's son Chip, who told him of the discovery of an opened copy of Alice's Restaurant left behind by the Nixon family when they left the White House, leading to speculation around the fact that the title song and the gap in the Watergate tapes are both 18½ minutes in length.
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