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Post by MWGallaher on Oct 2, 2023 19:54:15 GMT -5
After starting with the Frank Robbins bit, I was surprised that you didn't mention that Robbins was the writer of the first stories of Man-Bat, George's lead-off in the Five Worst list. The fact that I just bought the Phantom Stranger Omnibus should demonstrate where I stand on that character. One of Aparo's two best features, that's enough on its own. There may have been some weaknesses, but it was a trailblazer in incorporating a variety of monster menaces, with mummies, sorcerers, ice giants, the Flying Dutchman, Frankenstein, the Hunchback, all sorts of terrific threats for the mysterious man in black to take on. I didn't pick Man-bat , it was Morbius that was my first pick. Man-bat totally slipped my mind and probably would have been one of my favorites. The issue with the Ice giants is one of my favorite tales in the Phantom Stranger series. I think shaxper missed the mark on this series. Wow, right after I'd listened I'd have sworn Man-Bat was in there...I guess I was just in a Robbins frame of mind, and had Morbius and Man-Thing rattling around in my very overworked brain pan. Here's the Dell Dracula panels that most stuck in my brain:  That lazy starburst panel after the Dr. Jekyll-like opening just really works for me on some pop-art level. |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Oct 2, 2023 20:56:46 GMT -5
the Phantom Stranger series. I think shaxper missed the mark on this series. (challenge accepted...) The Phantom Stranger!  Mysterious! Powerful! Evasive! Etheral! Mature! Cerebral! Getting into fist fights with street thugs and becoming a b*tch to every second rate wizard and swami! cue appropriate music!Surprise attacked by a fat old dude and his swami for hire!  Owned by a low level practitioner of wizardry!  Struggling epicly against a minor summoned monster!  Captive to some religious dude and his pet sea creature!  ...and then there are the fights with totally ordinary mortals:     Once again, my problem was never with The Phantom Stranger. My problem was with how Len Wein fished for low-brow conflicts in his Phantom Stranger stories that were clearly beneath the character. You could see that he wanted to do better but was lost for how to create and sustain the tension otherwise. |
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Post by shaxper on Oct 2, 2023 20:59:52 GMT -5
my expectations for Werewolf by Night were much higher than they were for Man-Wolf. I see your point. Not sure it's much of a defense of Man-Wolf, but it's a decent condemnation of Werewolf by Night. |
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Post by shaxper on Oct 2, 2023 21:03:30 GMT -5
Wow, right after I'd listened I'd have sworn Man-Bat was in there... He was, but George wasn't the one picking on him.  I've read quite a bit of Man-Bat, and of the few of those I actually sort of enjoyed, none of them were because of Man-Bat himself. Maybe I had to discover him as a kid like you did. |
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Post by thwhtguardian on Oct 3, 2023 12:55:08 GMT -5
Wow, right after I'd listened I'd have sworn Man-Bat was in there... He was, but George wasn't the one picking on him. s I've read quite a bit of Man-Bat, and of the few of those I actually sort of enjoyed, none of them were because of Man-Bat himself. Maybe I had to discover him as a kid like you did. The early man bad stories weren't the greatest, especially in Batman Family, but the concept was really good and got a second wind in the 90's after appearing on Batman the Animated series. Not only did the new, more monstrous design by Kevin Nowlan transfer over to the comics but the Mr. Hyde element became much more pronounced which made him a more nuanced character than Morbius. Chuck Dixon's 1996 Manbat miniseris was fantastic, Doug Moench and Kelly Jones had an awesome storyline in Batman Darkest Night of the Man-Bat and then in 2006 we got another great mini by Bruce Jones and of course I loved Morrison's use of Man-bat to create an army of Ninja Man-bats for Ra's. |
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Post by MDG on Oct 3, 2023 14:10:23 GMT -5
A few thoughts--buckle up:
Growing up, I probably bought as many or more "horror comics" as superhero ones, and I spread it around: Warren, Fass, Ghost Stories from Dell, Karloff and Ripley's from Gold Key, Sorcery and Madhouse from Red Circle, as well as anthology titles from DC, Charlton, and Marvel. Even when I started buying undergrounds, I was attracted to Skull more than Freak Bros.
I really don't look at books with continuing characters as "horror"; they tend to fall into superhero tropes, or else they become "bystanders" (or forces of fate, if you prefer) like Man Thing. I dropped Warren's Eerie when they started using ongoing series--just wasn't what i was looking for.
Also, I'll take issue with the assertion that no one ever got scared by a comic book. Maybe not while reading it, but afterwards some can leave you with an uneasy feeling. Gold Key and Dell, strangely enough, were most likely to do this, probably because they were so matter-of-fact about things, stylistically, and unlike code books, didn't require a logical explanation or retribution.
And my aunt hated me because I'd lend my Warrens to my younger cousin when we visited them and she'd have nightmares for a couple month after that.
I like the Phantom Stranger, though it's uneven as a book, and the character is less defined than they intend, but Aparo's art is usually great. Thinking on it now, I wish Archie Goodwin had a crack at him. The stories when Dr Thirteen is trying to expose him, though, get tiresome pretty quickly.
I pick up the Dell "hero" versions of Dracula, Frankenstein, and Werewolf when I see them. I think they were intentionally making them for kids, I mean really young kids, like < 10. Hard to judge what I would've though of them at that age--might've worked. Also, for some reason, I always feel like I need to stick up for Tony Tallarico, but I just can't here.
I definitely agree on the Dark Shadows comics book, though. I picked up one recently with something about an island off Collinsport that was either cut off or nobody noticed and was the home to an enemy of Barnabas. Terrible. However, though I never read a continuity, the example of the Sunday strip by Ken Bald that I've seen are excellent.
(Topic for future study: Dark Shadows as the last horror franchise (hate that word) aimed at kids before horror movies and fiction started to get really dark in the 70s.)
One last note: one of my first Marvels was a coverless copy of Spider-Man 100 or 101 or whatever that I found on the sidewalk (yes, that used to happen) that ended with a full-page splash of six-armed Spidey being attacked by Morbius and the Lizard. That's when I decided i really didn't like Marvel.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Oct 3, 2023 14:20:56 GMT -5
(Topic for future study: Dark Shadows as the last horror franchise ( hate that word) aimed at kids before horror movies and fiction started to get really dark in the 70s.) You and me both. I haven't had time to listen. Probably won't for quite a while. So...yeah. |
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Post by Ricky Jackson on Oct 3, 2023 14:39:22 GMT -5
Some thoughts about the choices:
-I'm not a huge fan of Morbius but that Adventure Into Fear run is so batshit (pun intended) crazy and, with like 4 writers and 5 artists in 7 issues, is almost the perfect encapsulation of the chaos of 70s Marvel production
-I agree Man-Thing is a kinda blah character. The Gerber stories are pretty hit and miss, but at least the art was good (Ploog, Alcala)
-Wein's Phantom Stranger was pretty disappointing, no doubt. Only worth going through for Aparo's art
-I love the original Man-Wolf ASM story. I had the Power Record of it as a kid and it absolutely terrified me, especially the transformation sequence (same for the first Man-Bat story actually, which I also had the Power Record of)
-Also not enamored with Son of Satan. The Gerber run, like Man-Thing, had its moments but was mostly forgettable for me. And wasn't saved by the art like the others
Another fun episode guys!
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Oct 3, 2023 16:32:59 GMT -5
(Topic for future study: Dark Shadows as the last horror franchise (hate that word) aimed at kids before horror movies and fiction started to get really dark in the 70s.) The tinfoil hat theory I finally drop in Episode 4 comes dangerously close to this. I originally intended to connect it all to Dark Shadows but decided against it. Drat! |
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Post by Hoosier X on Oct 4, 2023 2:28:01 GMT -5
Man-Bat predates Morbius by a little over a year. Detective #400 came out the same month as Spider-Man #85.
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Post by Hoosier X on Oct 4, 2023 2:46:38 GMT -5
I guess I’m going to pause the podcast and make comments every few minutes as it strikes me.
Strange Sports Stories also appeared in the 1960s, as a tryout series in The Brave and the Bold #45 to #49. I’ve read a few of them and they are hilarious! There’s a famous Infantino cover where a gorilla in a baseball uniform is sliding into home as the umpire calls him safe.
I’ve not read the 1970s series, but I do remember the ads for it in the 1973 DC comic books. I looked up the first issue online to see who wrote the stories ... and it’s Frank Robbins.
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Post by Hoosier X on Oct 4, 2023 3:17:52 GMT -5
I was never a big Man-Thing fan but I never had anything against him. He appeared in Daredevil when Steve Gerber was writing it, I think around issue #115, with the Death Stalker and the Gladiator and really cool art by, I think, Bob Brown and Vince Colletta.
And I have several issues of Giant-Size Man-Thing. I like the story with the redesign of the Glob, and the Howard the Duck back-up stories, but my favorite thing about them is all the horror reprints from the early 1960s.
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Post by Hoosier X on Oct 4, 2023 3:33:15 GMT -5
I have never read any of the Dell monster super-hero comics, but I read an article about them many years ago in Comic Book Marketplace (I think) and my only response is “No thank you.”
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Post by Hoosier X on Oct 4, 2023 3:38:38 GMT -5
My feelings about Man-Bat and Phantom Stranger are too complicated to get into in the middle of the night. (Have you ever read the two issues of Man-Bat from the 1970s? With the Steve Ditko art, and featuring the only time Ditko drew Batman? Geez Louise!)
Anyway, it’s not just Kirk. It’s both of them. The Langstroms are a couple of freaks. Even the Dibnys shun them.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Oct 4, 2023 4:33:07 GMT -5
I looked up the first issue online to see who wrote the stories ... and it’s Frank Robbins. I never noticed! The man truly IS a bird. |
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