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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2023 10:30:48 GMT -5
A couple of months ago, I stopped into a LCS that opened a few years ago in our nearby mall. The owner seems to run the business well, he already had another shop a few towns over for many years and this was actually an expansion to that. Huge space (he took over the full footprint of a former Victoria's Secret), with a large front room with new comics plus a space for toys and supplies, and a glassed in display case table with vintage stuff. Second room is traditional boxes of back issues plus the main counter, and tons of stuff on the wall behind him including more special issues, smaller stuff like trading cards, etc. Back room is all the discount stuff including tons of $1 bin content. Sweet shop overall, something for everyone really.
During this trip, which wasn't my first, the owner and I chatted a bit (I think he's maybe a little over 5 years older than me, so plenty of shared comic book history between us). He just got a fresh Silver Age collection in, nothing slabbed, and hadn't put them out yet and let me pick the box as usual (those are my favorite days of course). And he's one of us basically, so always fun to talk to.
He then had to excuse himself while I kept looking through the collection, as apparently one his much younger steady customers came in. And I couldn't help but overhear the conversation as I was standing right next to them at the counter. Now none of this is meant to be judgmental by any means, more just something that I found very interesting. This younger customer evidently was also a fairly big spender, but pretty much exclusively new content. He was after the more exclusive variant runs, or anything else he thought might make the collection special. And the owner was also very oriented to this, he bought special new stuff he could get his hands on exactly for customers like this and was prepared to show him some options to consider that he had in stock (some even set aside for just this occasion). And they talked quite a bit, it was all about strategy on what was most exclusive, what may end up grading the highest (like did a particular copy look 9.4, 9.6, etc.). And what else might be coming down the road he should look out for. I don't think they talked once about a story arc, creators, or anything of that nature.
Again, my goal is not to be judgy (if he has the money and it makes him happy, it's not for me to criticize even if I don't personally get it). But it got me thinking about the whole speculation thing again. We often times talk about what happened in the 90's early on and how it all imploded. But it wasn't the first time. I remember living those B&W indy years in the 80's when everyone was chasing the next TMNT, and it was all about getting in on the "right books" at the right time even though some of the quality of them could he highly dubious.
While so many more macro factors exist today than those earlier "high speculation periods" (print-based comics sold at a brick and mortar are inherently so much more challenged today in general obviously), is our hobby always going to be subject to speculator frenzy peaks and valleys in some form or another? Do others feel a next "big crash" coming (I somewhat do, there is an overwhelming glut of supply overall even if some choice books do remain more resilient in the long run)? And if so, do you think this will be just part of another cycle or is it possible such a crash could have more long-standing implications this go around?
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Post by rberman on Oct 7, 2023 14:11:41 GMT -5
I am extensively involved in the community which collects original comic book art, and the topic is discussed constantly. Prices have doubled or more since pre-pandemic, which runs the danger of attracting venture capital that has no interest in the actual art but great interest in any commodity which is appreciating rapidly. Heritage Auction feeds the high prices due to its exorbitant fees, which can increase the cost of the art by 30-100% every time they sell it, if the seller recoups his own purchase price. Some other segments of the collector's market like baseball cards apparently underwent a recent correction, but original comic art hasn't seen a slump so much as a slowing of the rate of increase in price. Artists are also signing up with agents who ensure that hot new pages sell for four or even five figures straight out of the gate.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2023 14:51:48 GMT -5
I am extensively involved in the community which collects original comic book art, and the topic is discussed constantly. Prices have doubled or more since pre-pandemic, which runs the danger of attracting venture capital that has no interest in the actual art but great interest in any commodity which is appreciating rapidly. Heritage Auction feeds the high prices due to its exorbitant fees, which can increase the cost of the art by 30-100% every time they sell it, if the seller recoups his own purchase price. Some other segments of the collector's market like baseball cards apparently underwent a recent correction, but original comic art hasn't seen a slump so much as a slowing of the rate of increase in price. Artists are also signing up with agents who ensure that hot new pages sell for four or even five figures straight out of the gate. I'm heavily involved in the collectible guitars market, and you could pretty much swap "guitars" for "comic book art" with what you said and it is pretty much the same. And I feel the same about that area as comic books...it feels like a massive bubble. Regardless of the significant increase in new players to the market over the years, I am somewhat skeptical of how much true disposable income from an acquisition standpoint exists (I suspect there is a lot of personal debt growing to also fuel this), and there are not an unlimited amount of buyers who are willing to pay more when people are ready to attempt profit-taking sales on a larger scale than we've seen so far. I'm not saying this as a "wishful thinking" hobbyist but more just trying to technically analyze. If such a hypothetical bubble burst should happen, the flood of material into the market and related price volatility could be mind-boggling. I think it's fair to say there's a lot of uncertainty still of how this will all play out, but I think "persistent optimism" of how sustainable all this is might need some caution.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2023 15:26:54 GMT -5
And this is a very general comment on credit card debt, but it was reported in the second quarter of this year for the US, we topped $1 trillion dollars for the first time ever. At the end of 2019 just before the pandemic we were at $927 billion then dipped down to $770 billion in the first quarter of 2021. Been mostly rising steeply ever since.
I'm certainly not suggesting that implies the collectibles market is purely supported by credit card debt, but it does give me some pause with overall higher inflation and on average much higher debt and interest rates to go with that.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2023 17:55:16 GMT -5
Maybe I'll ask it in a much simpler way:
We often talk about the 90's crash having two major characteristics:
1) Unrealistic expectations of buyers that their "investments" would pay off big (ala Beanie Babies). 2) General lack of creative quality of the comics themselves.
Today's speculator market: how does it resemble or differ from this?
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Post by commond on Oct 7, 2023 18:33:12 GMT -5
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this type of speculation is geared towards the variant covers and has nothing to do with the quality of the actual comic. Some variants can sell for five figures depending on how rare they are.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2023 18:42:37 GMT -5
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this type of speculation is geared towards the variant covers and has nothing to do with the quality of the actual comic. Some variants can sell for five figures depending on how rare they are. Are today's variant covers possibly another version of "cover gimmicks" from the 90's? I try to get my head around how say a hologram or foil (or variant for the matter!) cover from the 90's is that much different. Again, just to really reiterate, no hidden "judging" agenda here, just trying to think through (I love a lot of 90's comics that many seem to dislike, so I REALLY mean that haha).
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Post by commond on Oct 7, 2023 19:38:53 GMT -5
My limited understanding of modern variant covers is that they began as an incentive for retailers to purchase more issues of a title. For example, if they ordered 10 versions of the regular cover, they would get one copy of the variant copy, which they could then sell at a higher price to cover the costs of any unsold books. The major difference seems to be the scarcity. Those 90s books were mass produced. The variants are hard to find. That's why some of them fetch such high prices. I don't know what you'd equate them to. Trading cards maybe.
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 7, 2023 19:54:16 GMT -5
Speculative buying has been around since the first guy (just a hunch, though comics were a bigger thing for girls, from the 30s through at least the 60s) was able to sell a comic and make a profit, then bought another solely based on the potential return he believed he would get. There was speculative buying when DC launched Shazam #1, greatly inflating the sales, which quickly leveled off after. The same was true for Howard the Duck #1, which came out when comic shops were just becoming a thing. People speculated on the launch of Epic Illustrated and the Epic line, with first Comics, with Eclipse and Pacific. People speculated heavily after the Teenage Mutant Ninja turtles became a hit, and the black & white boom that followed. That was largely a speculator-driven bubble that lasted about a year or less, with nothing titles selling huge numbers to speculative buyers and retailers. The bubble burst and a bunch of retailers went out of business, as did some distributors who overordered. That was followed by speculative buying as the independent boom followed or coincided with the black & white boom, as the number of publishers increased exponentially and were mostly gone in 5 years. Image and Valiant drove a wave of it. Valiant had been a good bet, at the start, as you had a publisher with a proven sales track record, if not popularity track record, using a mix of young and veteran talent, some established concepts and some new ones, and created a cohesive universe that built slowly, adding something new to the existing line, at least every quarter. It built towards a company-wide crossover that upped the ante. By the time most people became aware of the books and tried to find the back issues, they were scarce and going for high prices, because they legitimately had small initial print runs.
Where things changed from some consumers and some retailers and distributors speculating on a new launch was in the late 80s and into the 90s, as the major companies began targeting these buying patters, to try to entice speculator dollars to their books. The gimmick covers were part of that and variants appeared then, like the alternate JLI issue #3, or the Spider-Man and X-Force launches, with the comic bagged together with a special trading card. The same thing had just happened in the trading card market, as publishers started creating "collectible" items, rather than normal products. It went from the publisher deciding to launch a new series because a certain character has gotten really popular, during a certain writer or artist's run and then people speculating that the new series could be a sought after title, down the road; to "Buy this very special, one of a kind Platinum Issue, which could potentially go up in value, followed by microscopic disclaimers. Publishers put less effort into traditional publishing and more into thinking up new "collectible" stunts. Where it got really dangerous was that distributors were encouraging their clients to speculate on these titles and many were dumb enough to do so, ordering well beyond subscriber demand and walk-in traffic. The end result was tying up their liquid cash, by buying speculator titles, then sitting on excess unsold inventory, for months, increasing the cost of business. Speculating consumers then found that no one wanted to buy these collectibles because when you sell 4 million copies of a book that usually sells 250,000, every one has one....several, in fact. As Calvin once said, they all were banking on the other "kids'" mothers throwing out their comics and it didn't happen. Once the fast buck merchants saw that their investment was worthless, they dumped them for pennies on the dollar and moved on to Beanie Babies or the next get-rich-quick scheme.
It is no different from the boom and bust cycles of other speculative markets. The world economy was nearly thrown into another Depression because of the subprime mortgage boom and bust, which was built around speculative buying of second (and third) mortgage debt, since the debt to the lender became an asset, allowing it to be used as collateral for other lending, in a series of financial shell games, until one actor starts defaulting and the whole house of cards collapses. Bank A gives a mortgage to Bob & Sally, to build their ridiculously over-sized dream home. Bob & Sally are buying on debt and living a lifestyle, chasing the fast buck and Bob loses his jobs, the cards are maxed out and they default on the loan to the Bank. Except, Bank A sold the mortgage to another company, who was buying up heavily leveraged loans to gain the cash from the hom buyer, figuring they have them on the hook for decades. They then borrow from Bank B, to fund further second mortgage acquisitions. They also issue debentures, like stock, to raise further capital, which have no real collateral, just a belief in the stability and profitability of the company or organization. People buy those and then also buy securities which amount to insurance against the seller defaulting, essentially gambling that they will default and then they will get their money back, via the insurance. Then, the buyer defaults, as do all the other fools living beyond their means, on credit and the homes are sold or repossessed and the company that bought up the mortgages is standing in line to get their money. meanwhile, the insurance was in the form of debentures and the issuers of those default and suddenly everyone is going under.
In comics, once buyers got their fill or came down to reality that they wasted money on comics, they leave the market. The speculative retailers are sitting on huge inventory that can't give away. Their subscriber base has dwindled because all those speculators are gone and the cash isn't coming in. the existing readers want new product and more and more cash comes off the bottom line to buy it and more of it goes unsold, because they were ordered two months ago and the people who wanted cases of X-Dude 1.5, with the Einsteinium Glow-in-the-dark cover hasn't turned up in 5 weeks, because he can't ay for all those comics, since no one will buy the New Dudes #75 from him, because they have three cases in the back, propping up their desk. Retailer can't pay his bill to the distributor and gets cut off. Subscribers go to another shop, because they aren't getting their books. Shop closes down. Lather, rinse repeat for multiple clients who listened to the distributors rep that they didn't want o miss out on a big hit. Distributor loses dozens of clients per day and can't pay the monies owed the publishers and can't return unsold product to them, like newsstands, because they wanted that lower wholesale price. Distributor goes under and other shops have to switch to another distributor.
That's basically what happened. meanwhile, Marvel's management was a venture capital firm, who was playing all kinds of financial shell games. They took Marvel public and made a fortune on the IPO. Instead of investing that money in Marvel, they pocketed it. They then issued junk bonds, using the stock as collateral, and pocketed the proceeds. They issued a second set of junk bonds. They then decided to cut out the middle man, because they want all of the cash from anything Marvel and start buying up vendors of Marvel merchandise. they then eye the distribution end and decide they don't want to give up that cut of money anymore and buy Heroes World, a regional distributor, and announce they are the exclusive distributor for Marvel. DC cuts a deal with Steve Geppi and makes Diamond their exclusive, with an option to buy them, too. Image goes with Diamond, because they have to go where the number two goes, as do other majors. Capital is left with a few small companies and sells out. Heroes World doesn't have staff or resources to handle thousands of new accounts and orders go unfulfilled, causing shops to close up. Marvel set terms that pretty much force retailers to buy up their entire weekly line of product or pay much higher wholesale prices and retailers have no capital and shut down. Heroes World is bleeding money. Marvel has bought a trading card company just as the card market implodes Marvel needs cash and starts selling off acquisitions, at a loss and makes massive staff cuts. Carl Icahn buys up junk bonds to try to take control, so he can piecemeal sell the assets, strip the company of value and move on tot he next. McAndrews files Chapter 11 to hold of Icahn. The court and banks regect their proposals to restructure their debt. Icahn presents a plan that involves his group acquiring control and stiffing other creditors in favor of his group and the judge tells him to stop wasting his time with bad jokes. Ike Perlmutter sees his business headed to disaster because marvel is into them big time and presents a plan to pay of part of the debt and use stock in Toy Biz to buy control and pay off more debt and secure new financing. The judge likes it and he becomes Marvel, then penny pinches to the admiration of the stereotypical Scotsman. he then sells to Disney for $4 Billion Dollars.
Once companies started focusing on the collector mentality, instead of running their core business, their doom was sealed, whether it was greedy retailers, distributors or publishers. they all acted on irrational buying patterns and then tied up their cash in the mess. Economic history is filled with ridiculous speculation boom and bust cycles, like the notorious tulip bulb buying and the Stock market Crash of 1929, which was built on speculative buying, with the belief that it would never fall, even though that capital wasn't going into building new factories. The same thing happened with Dot-Coms, as Wall Street threw money at each new IPO, then the company blew the money on magic beans and Porsches and never created a product to sell and had nothing left, after snorting all of the cocaine.
You will always do better, long term, with regular, small, safe investments, than wild speculation. You may make money in the short run, but one bad speculation can wipe out capital and then it all falls apart, as you sell off.
As a company, when you focus on trying to sell collectibles to irrational buyers, at the expense of producing core products for the rational one, you set yourself up for a fall. It happened in the coin market, the stamp market, the trading card market, comic books, Beanie Babies and so on. The smart fast buck merchants hit fast with cash, sell quickly for a profit and move on. The rest best on the price going even higher, then sell too late.
Collecting because you enjoy the story or art or character is one thing. Buying and selling comic to create cash to finance the collecting is fine. Trying to get rich quickly is not likely to end well and should be avoided
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2023 22:33:36 GMT -5
Collecting because you enjoy the story or art or character is one thing. Buying and selling comic to create cash to finance the collecting is fine. Trying to get rich quickly is not likely to end well and should be avoided Fully agree with this, and appreciate the extensive history and commentary you provided. In my own life, I experienced the speculator market in the 80's with the B&W indy thing, and while I wasn't really into it to make money, being a kid and hanging around the scene at comic book shops and trade shows, I kind of got swept into a lot of that more from the books I increasingly felt like I "should" be picking up because of the buzz on them. One day I realized everything I was buying I kind of hated to read and decided to quit comics for some years (the only time in my life I took a break from that). In the 90's besides getting back into comics finally (and NOT getting swept up in the speculator stuff, I already knew better by that time, I just read what I enjoyed), I added numismatics to my interests. The era of slabbing (NGC, PCGS, etc.) was already upon that field, but many a cautious hobbyist was saying "buy the coin, not the (graded) number on the holder". And in hindsight I did the best possible thing I could think of...I joined the American Numismatic Association and took as many courses as I could on stuff like grading and authentication. While I wasn't arrogant enough to presume that in itself was equivalent to the real experts who had spent years professionally in the field performing grading and handling countless coins and currency, I would say it made me a MUCH more savvy buyer and I could enjoy the field much more. I also learned along the way a lot of coins for sale are NOT graded IMO very appropriately ("cleaned" and not disclosed/represented as such is one I seemed to run into a lot), and so I probably became a very "cautious" collector overall (in every field). I'm not a big believer in "instant collectibles" either, those are artificial low populations that are controlled by market makers. Whereas say you take a certain denomination coin with a given year and mint mark that circulated 150 years ago, and now there are only so many still around with better conditions even rarer. That's a really special thing IMO and may be much harder to find and acquire, but oh the thrill of the hunt and the education that goes with it. One other thing I will say though, and this is just my personal belief (not saying everyone should be like this): I like my hobbies to be just for fun. They form much needed escapism from the stresses of life. The moment they become a "business", it's not fun for me anymore. I have a career, I'm fortunate it offers me a measure of financial security, and I'd rather live within my means of what that affords me and when it's time to play, do just that.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2023 7:28:03 GMT -5
Not sure how many people are really interested in this topic, but I'll add a couple more thoughts and then leave it be. Also full disclosure, my career is in finance. Part of me can't help "technically analyzing" market dynamics both in general and with regards to the state of affairs of our hobby. By the way, if anyone is interested in a little light reading, far from the only book on the topic but one I enjoyed back in my early days is Manias, Panics, and Crashes: A History of Financial Crises by Kindleberger and Aliber (there have been many editions, I read it 20 years ago so not sure about later editions).
So on the supply side of things, we've talked a few times about "limited variants" as a driver for demand. The selling tactic always gives the perception that if you are lucky enough to land one, you are instantly in the "club". Instant collectible as it were. And sometimes a very high demand book with a very limited print run does just that, the classic "preorders instantly sold out, good luck finding one" scenario. But I look at the current market on a little more macro basis. We don't have just occasional books coming out like this. EVERY single month for years now there are countless low print run offerings. How many "low print run" books are collectors sitting on in total?
And why does this really matter? Well, your true "monetary value" of the book isn't realized until you sell it and actually get money in return. The only related value you have while you are holding it is confidence that the market exists for such a sale if and when you take that step. For instance, if you buy a rare variant but see that other copies have recently sold well, you have some comfort you are holding an asset worth something. And my only point in this is right now, there is a VERY high volume of potential supply that has been created by people buying and holding this material which means for it to be sustainable, there has to also be a fairly continuous VERY high volume of potential buyers that will pay the same or more for these same books.
Supply also applies to older key issues. Take a well-known one like Giant Size X-Men #1. A few things have happened in recent years: astronomical price increases (actual sales supporting that during the frenzy). We all know the reasons why it's always been a hot book and has surged further in popularity with the media exposure and all that. But as I look at the inventory on Lonestar this morning, as I type this there are 37 copies available for sale, all but 3 are slabbed, plus an additional 15 "single pages" for sale each slabbed. This is not new either, inventory has been sitting for awhile. So same concept here, how high is the confidence that the sellers reliably exist to support this pricing?
That said, I don't think it's all doom and gloom necessarily in the short term. It's one thing to say "hey, feels like the characteristics of a bubble" but even if it is, it could still have plenty more room to grow. Having a seeming glut of GS X-Men #1 on the market is a far cry from a massive panic sell-off.
Also to play devil's advocate to some of my own comments, looking back on the coins/currency market I talked about in my prior post, while not fully apples to apples with the comic book industry (there was no Coin Cinematic Universe driving exponential increased interest!), one thing that has NOT happened is a collapse of slabbing. Despite all my comments that the savvy buyer (IMO) does in fact "buy the coin and not the grade", in practice, tons of people "buy the number" all day long. The numismatic slabbing business has been going gang-busters for what, 30 plus years now? Why should comics be any different. And while slabbing isn't directly selling, hard to envision the sustained popularity of it without perceived value of what it brings to the market.
The other caution I think in "broad-brushing" a pessimistic outlook is the assumption that people don't enjoy ANY of the content they are purchasing. While speculative fever does seem dominant at times, I think there is an audience of people who really appreciate variant covers as art pieces. I've picked up a limited few on that basis with the thought they would maybe look great hanging on the wall in a frame. So some sustained perceived value I could see from this standpoint (people actually enjoying what they bought, what a concept!).
I'll end where I started though, I think overall a lot of uncertainty ahead.
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Post by Icctrombone on Oct 8, 2023 8:16:29 GMT -5
This is an interesting topic. I've read along so far and my thoughts are these:
1. I can't believe that there's any long term value in variant covers, but time will tell. I remember buying a Harley Quinn comic that turned out to be a sought after Variant and selling it for 50 a few months later. I can't imagine it's still worth that today.
2. If comics go away and stop being produced, maybe the collectors market will disappear even for key books. I used to collect baseball cards and in the 80's-90's you could sell rookie cards and get some pretty good m piney. It seems that they have lost their collectability , comics might go that way also.
3. The comic audience might be aging out and It's not being fueled and replenished by new fans of the movies. Indeed, the movies might be losing their appeal.
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 8, 2023 11:11:49 GMT -5
The value of variant covers would be the scarcity of a particular variant; but, when they had 12 variants you have pretty much watered down the idea of an alternative to the point that the gimmick loses its purpose. The variants that have usually appreciated value are the ones done in varied limited quantities, to test the waters, not the 9th book issued with variants. That JLI cover was done to test appeal and was released in very small numbers, in limited markets, to test the response. Most people didn't know it even existed, until they encountered one and thought they missed an issue, somehow.
In regards to comics going away, I don't see that. I see them evolving into non-print forms or even into animation; but, it's a storytelling mechanism and, as long as people have stories to tell, they will use the mechanism. That's the difference between comics and baseball cards. Cards are marketing tools to court fans of the teams and players, comics aren't t, apart from licensed titles to help sell a film or tv series.
The audience for traditional comics is aging out; but, you have a generation or two weaned on manga and comics not published via the traditional comic book publishers. We sold tons of comics to kids, at Barnes & Noble, just not DC and Marvel. They were from Scholastic and other publishers and had names like Nate the Great, Smile, Diary of a Wimpy Kid, Geronimo Stilton, Hugo Cabret, etc. As they got older, they bought things like One Piece. They just weren't buying Spider-Man or the Teen Titans, even as they watched Teen Titans Go.
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 8, 2023 11:40:30 GMT -5
My background is economics, which is smoke and mirrors; but, there are grains of truth within it. Markets are all about supply and demand; but, the academic idea of markets being demand driven ignores some basic psychology: if you can make a person believe something is true, it becomes true. If you can make people believe they have a need for a product they never considered before, they will rationalize a need to not be left out and will buy accordingly. That is what mass advertising is all about and that is what gimmicks like variant covers, holograms or similar features were trying to do: manipulate demand to create it where it didn't exist before. Apple does it all the time. No one NEEDED an iPod....there were mobile cassette and CD players.....but Apple convinced people that they had a need for it and they bought them in droves. Then it was iPads and the iPhones, to the point that they had the consumers trained to buy each annual release, like rats in a skinner box, tapping the lever for food pellets.
Economics has its own irrational side, particularly the whole "Supply Side Economics" load of nonsense. The premise is based on the idea that giving tax breaks to the upper levels of income then filters down to the lower levels, based on that increased income being invested in new markets or in purchasing more goods is based on a false assumption, that the upper income levels won't just sit on the money, or toss it into an interest-earning account. The reality has been proven that it just increased the wealth of the upper incomes and the tax burden on middle incomes. Why doesn't it work? Because it is a rationalization perpetuated by the wealthy to reduce their tax burden and increase their wealth, at the expense of the middle class, while they also worked to prevent wage increases that were commensurate with inflation. End result, generations that earn less than their parents did and have massive debt burdens.
Within comics, the speculator frenzy caused the companies to lose focus on storytelling and lose their core audience. At the same time, they had already lost focus on what should be their core audience, over the preceding two decades: children. Comic books used to have a turnover of readers every 5-7 years, as kids aged out and new kids entered. By the 70s, more and more were aging out, as the Baby Boomers grew older. However, the 60s saw Marvel kind of extend the age of the reader, a bit, just as EC had, in the 50s. They also had a new generation of fans-turned-pros running things. They wanted to focus more on that older audience and started ignoring the kids, in part because they were teased or bullied for still liking comic books when others had moved on. A whole industry starts growing around selling comics outside of the newsstand, created by that same generation, with a similar mindset. So, the companies start catering more to that emerging business, instead of the wider traditional core audience. You still have a certain percentage aging out; but, a shrinking percentage coming in, because there are few entry points into the clubhouse. The first to go were those pesky girls, who wouldn't give the pros the time of day, when they were adolescents. That was soon followed by the snotnose kids who thought Superman was cool, when they should have been getting high and reading Dr Strange. Then it was anyone who could follow endless running subplots and intricate continuity points in supposed epics, with about two issues of plot, but 8 issues of content (most of it recapping the previous issue or the plot of a comic from 10 years ago). So you got a narrower and narrower audience. Then, you discovered that you could sell comics to these new shops, without having to take returns, if you gave them a slightly better discount. You could gage demand for a title by their advance orders and cater to specific markets, where you would have a better sell through. Problem was, that was demand from the shops, not the readers. The better shop owners ordered based on the input of their subscribers and walk-in customers. A lot of them order with a fan mindset, with only their own likes and desires determining things. Others were betting that they could sell things at inflated prices, after the release and make a huge profit. The companies respond to those buying patterns more and more, until they are completely ignoring the mass audience, in favor of specialty markets, turning it from a mass medium into a niche industry. Like model building kits or miniature soldiers.
The comic book industry could be a mass medium, again, by capturing the imaginations of a new generation; but, they only do that in other areas, via licensed projects, like movies and tv. It hasn't translated into any increased readership of comic books, because the comics are still being aimed at the niche market.
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 8, 2023 12:23:17 GMT -5
My own buying has always centered around, too many books, not enough money; so, pick good ones. I was about value for my dollar, whether it was more content, from a Dollar Comic or digest, or choosing a Wolfman & Perez New Teen Titans book over Avengers. I had creators I liked and characters I liked enough to give a story or new title a try; but not for long, if it wasn't working. I also read everything, when it came to genres and would even read a romance comic, if it was the only thing around. I had Richie Rich and X-Men, Archie and Sgt Rock, Jonah Hex and Justice League. I had a stack of Treasure Chest of Fun & Facts, given to me by a neighbor (who bought them at a yard sale and had read them all). I didn't understand why some people badmouthed Gold Key, or why comic shops didn't seem to carry the Archie books, but grocery stores did. I picked up and read those funny looking European and Japanese comics, if they looked interesting enough. For me, it was the content and the entertainment it brought to me, within the limitations of my budget.
That isn't to say, I didn't have my irrational buying. Mine was not speculating, though; it was buying with debt. I got my first credit card after college, while in the military. It was a student offer, with a small credit limit. I should have stuck with it, because I rarely used it. However, I found that when I went to my new duty station, my new bank was offering me a much higher credit limit and lower interest rates. I snapped it up. I did the same with my insurance company, because they offered me a Gold Card, with a high limit and low interest. For the most part, I didn't use them often or for very much and I kept them paid of or kept the debt low. My income was fairly liquid, thanks to my military benefits. I received an allowance for food, that more than covered my monthly grocery bill and any eating out. I got an allowance for quarters that mostly paid my rent, so I just paid utilities. I was living in a southern coastal city and didn't have high utility bills. I was paying a car loan, but the payments were manageable. I had a small amount of student debt $5,000), but it was deferred, while I was on active duty (shouldn't have done that, but I paid it off quickly, after I left the military). So, I had more cash on hand than I did at a higher salary, after the military, since those non-taxable benefits covered most of my expenses. Every once in a while, though, I would go back issue hunting and use the credit card, when I found a treasure trove.
I used to drive 3 hours to Charlotte to go look through the back issues at the main Heroes Aren't Hard To Find store. I bought all kinds of things, usually a couple of bucks, on average, and completed entire runs of creators or storylines. I had my list and I checked off a lot, during that timeframe. One time, I went up there, bought a bunch of stuff, totaling around $50-60 and thought I had spent a lot. Then, the clerk told me about a warehouse sale they were having, a couple of blocks away. So, I took a map and went over and found that I had entered the cave of the 40 thieves.....there were Treasury Editions in huge stacks, back issues of The Comics Journal (THE BILL WATTERSON INTERVIEW; YES!!!!) They even had Tim Truman's Dixie Pistols album, with the Scout wedding comic (I didn't buy that, since I didn't have a turntable, though I wanted the comic inside). I spent around another $75. That was an expensive weekend! I put it all on the credit card.
I went to my first major convention, in Atlanta and took $200 cash, for buying (the hotel room went on my card, as did the tickets to the con, but in advance). I soon found that much of my wish list could easily be filled. Then, I discovered other treasures, like bootleg tapes of the Heavy Metal movie and Jonny Quest episodes that hadn't been released on commercial VHS. I found a book about The Wild Wild West tv series and another about the Avengers tv show (Steed & Mrs Peel). I found the Paul Gulacy Black Widow portfolio, whose images had entranced me when I saw them in a marketing flyer from a mail order comic place, back in high school. I found a Mike Grell Starslayer portfolio right next to it. I burned through my budget and used my card and pulled more money out of an ATM (I had 6 months back pay, from a delayed promotion, so I was flush with cash).
Now, jump ahead a year and I have left the military and am not making huge wages, while I also attend classes to teach. I am still reading a lot of series and still collecting and, hey, I have a credit card. I kept buying like I had the liquid income, but now I was buying more and more with debt and the interest started racking up, quickly. I got a better job, at B&N and added to my debt by now buying discounted books. Now I could get a $50 archive edition for $30, which was great savings, so buy two different ones and put them on the credit card. It wasn't a lot in one go, but a lot over time. I didn't have student loan debt, like a lot of peers; but, I built up a lot of credit card debt, without a lavish lifestyle.
I don't think I am unique in using debt to finance comic buying and someone earlier asked about debt-funded purchase of colelctibles and I suspect it is a huge element of the irrational prices.If you have to pay cash and you have to chose between a variant cover and this week's food, you may actually think like an adult. if you can slap it on a credit card, you will eat a hearty meal while looking at the slabbed variant cover to a story you probably didn't even read.
I am debt free now and have no credit cards and buy very little beyond necessities. I found ways to fill my comic book reading desires digitally, many for free. However, i never bought variant covers, though I might chose a specific cover, if my shop offered me my choice of them. I let myself be suckered by Team Titans having a different origin story and the same lead story, in five different comics, then was so angry at myself I never did that again and refused to touch such issues, even if I liked the series. I could usually read it in a trade, by that stage.
The most I ever paid for a comic was $100, for Exciting Comic #9, the debut of The Black Terror, from Nedor. I tried to talk the seller down to $75, but paid what he wanted. Then hated myself because the issue was not particularly great, despite the look of the character, as all the good stories were later, with Jerry Robinson & Mort Meskin on art. I saw about a half dozen other, better Golden Age comics I could have bought with that C-note. Never again. Anything from the 60s onward, I refused to pay more than $10 for it and it had really better be worth $10 and there were few of those) I would look, longingly, at $25 X-Men issues on the wall behind the counter, but I wasn't going to fork over $25 for one comic, then. As it was, Marvel started reprinting that whole run and I steadily collected the reprints and read the whole thing (they skipped the Warhawk issue, though, for some reason). If they had two copies of a back issue and one was a buck cheaper, in a lower grade, I bought the cheaper one. I might buy irrationally; but, I wasn't stupid!
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