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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jan 22, 2024 13:42:00 GMT -5
Moreover, this was a period of time when there was an enormous amount of fraud in the comic retailing world. A lot of store owners were hoarding titles they considered collectible, which resulted in Marvel and DC being convinced that some highly commercial properties were not selling. The 4th World books, and a lot of Neal Adams' comics, received that treatment. Didn't the store owners have to purchase the copies they hoarded, though? I believe that this was after they started doing "affidavit" returns. So they signed an affidavit that they destroyed the books and they got credit back for them. But they didn't actually destroy the books. Before that was the days of stripping, whether it be the top third of the cover or the entire cover. |
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Post by Prince Hal on Jan 22, 2024 13:44:28 GMT -5
Didn't the store owners have to purchase the copies they hoarded, though? I believe that this was after they started doing "affidavit" returns. So they signed an affidavit that they destroyed the books and they got credit back for them. But they didn't actually destroy the books. Before that was the days of stripping, whether it be the top third of the cover or the entire cover. Nice racket. |
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Post by kirby101 on Jan 22, 2024 13:48:47 GMT -5
Though at times he could lay it on just too thick. His Silver Surfer being an example. People say Kirby failed without Stan. Though the reality behind the cancellation of the Fourth World is more complex than "it didn't sell". It sold better than other books that were not cancelled. Moreover, this was a period of time when there was an enormous amount of fraud in the comic retailing world. A lot of store owners were hoarding titles they considered collectible, which resulted in Marvel and DC being convinced that some highly commercial properties were not selling. The 4th World books, and a lot of Neal Adams' comics, received that treatment. Yes, Bob Berbohm has documented the affidavit fraud that was going on. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 22, 2024 14:23:08 GMT -5
So much for the honor system.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jan 22, 2024 14:25:13 GMT -5
So much for the honor system. There's no honor among thieves. |
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Post by Prince Hal on Jan 22, 2024 14:39:23 GMT -5
So much for the honor system. There's no honor among thieves. . |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jan 22, 2024 14:40:53 GMT -5
There's no honor among thieves. . Joe Valachi says hi. |
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Post by Prince Hal on Jan 22, 2024 14:42:04 GMT -5
Dat's Mistah Valachi ta youse guys.
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Post by Rob Allen on Jan 22, 2024 15:31:23 GMT -5
I'm glad someone mentioned affidavit return fraud. That cost us a lot of good comics that were cancelled to soon. And here's Ditko's comment about whether Stan created Spider-Man:  |
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Post by Prince Hal on Jan 22, 2024 16:08:51 GMT -5
I'm glad someone mentioned affidavit return fraud. That cost us a lot of good comics that were cancelled to soon. And here's Ditko's comment about whether Stan created Spider-Man: Is Ditko swiping from Jack Chick? |
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Post by Ozymandias on Jan 22, 2024 16:36:05 GMT -5
When I talk about better writing skills, I don't mean T. S. Eliot, Steve Englehart was already OK.
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Post by tarkintino on Jan 22, 2024 16:56:09 GMT -5
...and no, folks, this is not trolling, but a brief, artistic interlude featuring a beautiful, memorable cover of books released during one of Marvel's earlier high points of presenting their already-rich history:   Fun times, but five or six dollar books seemed like a small fortune back in the day. |
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Post by Cei-U! on Jan 22, 2024 17:10:07 GMT -5
I got the first Origins book for Christmas from my parents... and I hadn't even asked for it!
Cei-U!
Did they know me or what?
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Post by commond on Jan 22, 2024 18:12:05 GMT -5
Commond, I think by that time, Kirby had already moved to California, and I don't think he had any desire to be an art director. But I do believe he was developing the New Gods for Marvel. If I can find the specifics, I'll post it. But basically, rather than negotiate a new contract in terms of royalties and guaranteed pages, the new company sent him a letter to sign saying he has no rights and he must sign it to get any work. He walked. Kirby did sign the documents, however. They were part of the conditions of the sale to Perfect Film & Chemical Corporation. Marvel were able to produce them later on when Kirby's lawyers were pressing them for copyright claims. Marvel initially won the lawsuit with Kirby's children after the court decided that all of Jack's work had been work-for-hire. |
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Post by commond on Jan 22, 2024 18:24:03 GMT -5
I really think if he gave the credit where it was due and stuck to talking about his skill as a scripter and editor, we would not be having most of this discussion.
There are numerous examples of Stan doing just this in interviews over the years. Where things got extreme is when money became involved and after the movies became successful. If Stan, or Goodman, had paid Jack a writing credit then some of the tension would have been eased. There still would have been frustrations but at least it wouldn't have stuck in Jack's caw so much. Ditko was always going to have a blow up with Stan and depart regardless of money. If Stan had been around more when Jack returned to Marvel in 1975 perhaps he wouldn't have been treated so poorly and perhaps the story would have had a slightly happier ending. |
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