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Post by Ozymandias on Feb 15, 2024 17:58:34 GMT -5
Nah, I don't think Kirby needed great inkers. His strengths came trough with most. Colletta was a particular case, because he not only erased pencils (I didn't know that) but he also changed the outcome by such a degree that Kirby didn't look like himself. And yet, I liked the results. Colletta is one of my favorite inkers for Kirby, and at the same time, I can't recall liking his works on anyone else's pencils. Weird.
As for Stan, he wasn't a good inker. (That last bit just to keep it relevant to the thread)
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Post by commond on Feb 15, 2024 19:26:38 GMT -5
Vince Colletta, another guy who gets his reputation sullied by Kirby partisans.
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Post by Cei-U! on Feb 15, 2024 19:45:34 GMT -5
Vince Colletta, another guy who gets his reputation sullied by Kirby partisans. Colletta sullied his reputation just fine without any input from "Kirby partisans." Just look at interviews with Neal Adams, Gene Colan, or Alex Toth, three terrific artists who were quite vocal about how much they detested Vinnie's inks over their pencil art.
Cei-U! I summon the dearly departed detractors!
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Post by tarkintino on Feb 15, 2024 20:02:57 GMT -5
Where I would disagree - if it's permitted to do so without being considered part of the "Kirby Hype machine"! - is that Kirby "needed great inkers" in the sense that I think Tarkintino intends, which is that he was incapable of producing great comic book artwork without inkers to cover up his flaws I'm saying the best of Kirby's Marvel work was inseparable from the great inkers who elevated that work, thus there was noticeable difference in quality all too easy to see when he no longer worked with those key inkers. Anything else is to suggest (not implying you) Kirby's artistic height at Marvel would have presented the same, with the same impact, when there's no way Sinnott or Shores (for just two examples) with their own known style--did not add their distinctive talents to lift Kirby's work to its most appealing period. |
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Post by Ozymandias on Feb 16, 2024 2:58:43 GMT -5
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Post by kirby101 on Feb 16, 2024 9:18:21 GMT -5
Where I would disagree - if it's permitted to do so without being considered part of the "Kirby Hype machine"! - is that Kirby "needed great inkers" in the sense that I think Tarkintino intends, which is that he was incapable of producing great comic book artwork without inkers to cover up his flaws I'm saying the best of Kirby's Marvel work was inseparable from the great inkers who elevated that work, thus there was noticeable difference in quality all too easy to see when he no longer worked with those key inkers. Anything else is to suggest (not implying you) Kirby's artistic height at Marvel would have presented the same, with the same impact, when there's no way Sinnott or Shores (for just two examples) with their own known style--did not add their distinctive talents to lift Kirby's work to its most appealing period. Which inkers didn't he look as good with? Which weren't great? Giaccioa? Klein? Everett? Verpooten? Stone? Tuska? Are all of these key inkers whose styles made Kirby more appealing?
How much did Sinnott elevate Kirby over Giacoia? Because both of these look pretty good to me.
I could also post images from the FF (90-99) when Giacoia seamlessly took over inking from Sinnott on several issues. Or the covers of those books with Giacoia, Verpooten and Sinnott all inking various issues.
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,872
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Post by shaxper on Feb 16, 2024 10:42:21 GMT -5
Oftentimes when discussing classic creators, we forget that this was a business. That was why Colletta thrived. He inked fast, and he kept the bosses happy. Respecting artistry and the desires of the artist ran contrary to good, efficient business. Thus, I dislike Colletta's work and I don't respect his contributions, but I think it's misguided to malign the guy. He was doing a job and getting paid for it. If, some day, a fandom arises around perfectly made envelopes and fans start maligning Icctrombone for shoving them in mailboxes quickly/efficiently instead of with delicate reverence, it will be misguided. He's just doing the job he's expected to do. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 16, 2024 11:13:11 GMT -5
Oftentimes when discussing classic creators, we forget that this was a business. That was why Colletta thrived. He inked fast, and he kept the bosses happy. Respecting artistry and the desires of the artist ran contrary to good, efficient business. Thus, I dislike Colletta's work and I don't respect his contributions, but I think it's misguided to malign the guy. He was doing a job and getting paid for it. If, some day, a fandom arises around perfectly made envelopes and fans start maligning Icctrombone for shoving them in mailboxes quickly/efficiently instead of with delicate reverence, it will be misguided. He's just doing the job he's expected to do. Why did I get dragged into this?   Colletta was a necessary evil. His inks in Thor are unparalleled. |
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Post by Prince Hal on Feb 16, 2024 11:16:26 GMT -5
Icctrombone for shoving them in mailboxes quickly/efficiently instead of with delicate reverence, it will be misguided. He's just doing the job he's expected to do. This has to be fake news!  |
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,872
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Post by shaxper on Feb 16, 2024 11:16:34 GMT -5
Oftentimes when discussing classic creators, we forget that this was a business. That was why Colletta thrived. He inked fast, and he kept the bosses happy. Respecting artistry and the desires of the artist ran contrary to good, efficient business. Thus, I dislike Colletta's work and I don't respect his contributions, but I think it's misguided to malign the guy. He was doing a job and getting paid for it. If, some day, a fandom arises around perfectly made envelopes and fans start maligning Icctrombone for shoving them in mailboxes quickly/efficiently instead of with delicate reverence, it will be misguided. He's just doing the job he's expected to do. Why did I get dragged into this? 1. I defended Collette for you 2. It's fun 3. Jim Shooter |
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Post by Prince Hal on Feb 16, 2024 11:17:28 GMT -5
Oftentimes when discussing classic creators, we forget that this was a business. That was why Colletta thrived. He inked fast, and he kept the bosses happy. Respecting artistry and the desires of the artist ran contrary to good, efficient business. Thus, I dislike Colletta's work and I don't respect his contributions, but I think it's misguided to malign the guy. He was doing a job and getting paid for it. If, some day, a fandom arises around perfectly made envelopes and fans start maligning Icctrombone for shoving them in mailboxes quickly/efficiently instead of with delicate reverence, it will be misguided. He's just doing the job he's expected to do. Why did I get dragged into this? Colletta was a necessary evil. His inks in Thor are unparalleled. Well, that's a double-edged sword. My inks on Thor would also have been unparalleled |
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 16, 2024 11:17:48 GMT -5
Hahahhaha. Okay, you get a pass.
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 16, 2024 11:18:50 GMT -5
Why did I get dragged into this? Colletta was a necessary evil. His inks in Thor are unparalleled. Well, that's a double-edged sword. My inks on Thor would also have been unparalleled And I was just gonna send you some 90’s Image books. You lost out ,mister ! |
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Post by kirby101 on Feb 16, 2024 11:37:43 GMT -5
I don't think Colletta always had a limited time to do Thor books as Kirby was never late. Stan often returned art to be redone. I don't fault him for using Colletta (and I like the look he brought to Thor) but Stan could have told Vinnie to do a better job. Since everybody else inking Kirby inked all the pencils, no reason Colletta couldn't have been asked to by the editor. As I said, Stan had to go through every page off the art to write the dialog, so he had to know how much was being left out.
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Post by MWGallaher on Feb 16, 2024 11:43:29 GMT -5
Oftentimes when discussing classic creators, we forget that this was a business. That was why Colletta thrived. He inked fast, and he kept the bosses happy. Respecting artistry and the desires of the artist ran contrary to good, efficient business. Thus, I dislike Colletta's work and I don't respect his contributions, but I think it's misguided to malign the guy. He was doing a job and getting paid for it. If, some day, a fandom arises around perfectly made envelopes and fans start maligning Icctrombone for shoving them in mailboxes quickly/efficiently instead of with delicate reverence, it will be misguided. He's just doing the job he's expected to do. Why did I get dragged into this? Colletta was a necessary evil. His inks in Thor are unparalleled. Indeed. Literally un paralleled:  |
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