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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 25, 2024 10:36:55 GMT -5
Also, at this time, Stan was using some Ghosts for plot ideas. So some could be plot from who knows, script Leiber, art Kirby. Those issues from 83 to 100 are almost DC like in their villain of the week vibe. The Thor's one minute Hammer shtick was overused, and Blake's personality was all over the place. (at one point he becomes a research scientist in the back of his General Practice office. There was none of the different feel that the FF or Spider-Man had. I am fairly certain Kirby had not taken over plotting yet. Leiber was writing scripts at this point.
A good way to see is if there is a dramatic difference in the stories when Kirby was not drawing. Sometime after #100, when it becomes a Lee/Kirby, Kirby/Lee product, you can see the difference.
I can't wait to get to when he creates androids.
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Post by kirby101 on Jan 25, 2024 10:52:49 GMT -5
I think at some point they decided that the book was not about Don Blake, who becomes Thor (the way Spider-Man is about Peter Parker) and made it about Thor, who has a civilian identity.
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Post by Hoosier X on Jan 25, 2024 12:13:03 GMT -5
Journey into Mystery #88January 1963 "The Vengeance of Loki!" This is the one with the Kirby/Ditko cover! This story begins with the end of Journey into Mystery #85, with the Mjolnir Delivery Service depositing naughty Loki at the gates of Asgard. Odin punishes him with house arrest; it is forbidden for Loki to leave Asgard. Loki burns some leaves and is magically able to watch Thor and he sees him turn to Don Blake and he realizes that Thor is totally dependent on his hammer. Loki escapes Asgard by turning into a snake and slithering between Heimdall's feet. Loki masquerades as an old man and shows up at Blake's reception room and hypnotizes Jane into letting him in to see the doctor. He confronts Blake and removes his disguise and Blake slams his stick down and becomes Thor. He challenges Thor to a battle and they must meet in Central Park. Jane Foster also shows up because of a hypnotic command from Loki. Thor throws his hammer and Loki dodges as it glides by, and Jane Foster shows up at that very moment. Loki distracts Thor by changing a tree into a tiger and willing the tiger to attack Jane. Sixty minutes pass while Thor is killing the tiger that used to be a tree and he changes to Don Blake. When he goes to get his hammer, he finds that Loki has encased it in a force field and he can't touch it! So Loki galivants around New York City causing mischief. My favorite is the panel where he turns all the building and cars into candy and ice cream BECAUSE REASONS! There's a guy on his bike yelling at the dogs following him. "Hey! Stop licking my bicycle! SHOO!" They are the most adorable pack of comic-book pooches I've seen in a while. And the bicycle rider is doing the right thing by trying to get the dogs away from his bicycle. That candy might make them sick! Blake tricks Loki into removing the force field by standing behind a plastic dummy of Thor. Loki thinks Thor is back to normal so he removes the force field to see if the hammer is still there. IT IS! And Blake runs forward and grabs it and becomes Thor and beats Loki up and takes him back to Asgard. There are no panels at the end with Jane staring out the window and getting all dreamy-eyed about Thor and then bagging on Dr. Blake because he's such a weenie. Thank Odin! Commentary: The return of Loki! The judgment of Odin! Heimdall is not good at his job! Blake shows that he is actually quite resourceful even without his hammer (though it's a good thing that a) Marvel New York has really authentic plastic dummies; or b) Loki has bad eyesight. I kind of like this one. It's easy to make fun of but the art is great and it moves along from one absurdity to the next at a pretty good pace. Although I can just see Odin passing judgment on this one. "What did he do that was so bad, my son? He turned a bicycle into candy and some dogs got a little sick from eating it and barfed on a New York sidewalk. It's just high spirits, Thor Odinson! Loki is the god of mischief! What do you expect? Try to be a little more understanding! My judgment ... house arrest again ... and no TV privileges for a week!"
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Post by MDG on Jan 25, 2024 13:22:31 GMT -5
The only way we're ever going to get to the good stuff is by biting the bullet and writing these reviews. .... Looks like you were biting more than that...
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Post by kirby101 on Jan 25, 2024 14:12:37 GMT -5
Where did Blake get a perfect plastic dummy of Thor that could fool Loki. And Why didn't pigeon Loki just eat the peanuts. Seems the God of Mischief is very easily fooled himself.
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 25, 2024 14:15:35 GMT -5
Journey into Mystery #88January 1963 "The Vengeance of Loki!" Commentary: The return of Loki! The judgment of Odin! Heimdall is not good at his job! Blake shows that he is actually quite resourceful even without his hammer (though it's a good thing that a) Marvel New York has really authentic plastic dummies; or b) Loki has bad eyesight. I kind of like this one. It's easy to make fun of but the art is great and it moves along from one absurdity to the next at a pretty good pace. Although I can just see Odin passing judgment on this one. "What did he do that was so bad, my son? He turned a bicycle into candy and some dogs got a little sick from eating it and barfed on a New York sidewalk. It's just high spirits, Thor Odinson! Loki is the god of mischief! What do you expect? Try to be a little more understanding! My judgment ... house arrest again ... and no TV privileges for a week!" Comments from the peanut gallery ( Or just me!) Loki ups the anti by finding out Thors secret. Is it me or does Loki appear to have better abilities than Thor? Thor actually admits to as much but is confidant that his Hammer will give him the win. Well, Loki eliminates the Hammer by encasing it in a magic barrier, so I guess he agreed that the Hammer was a problem. About Loki's powers, I am reading my Thor run because I don't know what everyone's abilities and power levels are. I think I know what everyone can do but my memory has gaps. In this issue alone Loki has the power of Flight, he can transform himself into other forms, and he can make inanimate objects into live animals. This appears to be Molecule man or Firestorm level powers. the Question is , are these powers here to stay or are they just something that was used during this books "Superman" phase ? Heimdals' failure to see a snake slithering along the rainbow bridge appears to be a weak plot device to free Loki from Asgard. My memory tells me that he can see a grain of sand fall In the desert. Fun Moments-Loki causing the militaries weapons to sprout wings. The aforemented scene with the dogs attacking a persons bike. Men writing comics in the 60's moment-Jane faints , preventing her seeing Thors transformation to Blake. Is it me, or is fainting a thing that happens only in comics, and only to women?
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 25, 2024 21:13:02 GMT -5
Journey Into Mystery # 89The Thunder God and the ThugWriter: Stan Lee, Scripter: Larry Lieber, Artist: Kirby, Inker, Dick AyersPlot summary:In a gun battle with the police, criminal Thug Thatcher is wounded in his escape. Don Blake is abducted to treat the mob boss and after he does, is to be killed. He turns into Thor and beats the bosses underlings but Thatcher escapes with his girlfriend. They return to Blakes office to kidnap Blake in order to get leverage against Thor. He heard that Thor and Blake have a connection. When he gets to the office Blake is not there so he takes Foster hostage instead. Thor free's Foster and Thatcher escapes to a construction site , where Thor tracks him down. When at the site Thatcher threatens bystanders but is defeated when substandard steel that he himself sold to various companies collapses. Comments:Thors origin story is retold adding a scene where he promises Odin to fight for against evil. That's new. Thor fighting a common criminal is below his pay grade. His stories have yet to be elevated to a more cosmic level. They will be in another year or so. Thor contacts Odin telepathically when he's about to be killed by Thatcher's mob who sends a force bolt making the person who has Blakes cane drop it. It seems too convenient to keep reaching out to Odin whenever he's a jam. This issue features one of the classic all time covers to a Thor comic. Goofy Moments:First he uses super ventriloquism to distract Thatcher, he then "Kicks" his hammer in order to disarm him. Once again Thor uses his " super breath" Jane day dreams about being Thors housewife complete with Ironing his uniform giving him haircuts, and dare I say it, polish his Hammer.
In order to fool his patients in Blakes office and distract them from making a connection to his alter ego, he puts together a Thor Dummy to fly past the window. It goofy and unnecessary. No one will ever think 98 pound Blake that has a limp, is really 300lb 6'5" Thor. Problematic momentThor asks Odin to mind wipe Thatcher's girlfriend of any love she has for him. Isn't this what got Zatanna in trouble? All in all a pretty silly issue.
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Post by Hoosier X on Jan 25, 2024 21:29:49 GMT -5
Thug Thatcher gave Thor waaaay too much trouble in this story. They might have gotten away with it if they had Loki, behind the scenes, under house arrest and bored because his TV privileges have been taken away and he can’t watch Bonanza or Perry Mason, and Loki’s watching from his bunk bed with the covers over his head, and he’s giving Thug ideas and making him stronger and teleporting him away so he can escape.
Still, as is, it’s got its moments. That cover is truly classic. The Kirby/Ayers art is great, as usual.
And that bit where Jane Foster is fantasizing about being married to Thor is COMEDY GOLD!
Not to mention that this story gets a lot of extra points because it’s right next to #90 and it looks SO GOOD in comparison!
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Post by Prince Hal on Jan 25, 2024 22:11:15 GMT -5
Super-robots = Thor-nequins
Ruby = Kirby lookalike
And of course Super-Thor mentions returning to pay for the mannequin and material, because truth, justice and the Asgardian way.
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Post by Hoosier X on Jan 25, 2024 22:39:44 GMT -5
icctrombone tricked me! And I'm still kind of mad about it! We were just kind of willy-nilly writing these reviews, and icctrombone suggested things might go smoother if we alternated the reviews. He said, "You do 88, 90, 92 and so on, and I'll do 89, 91, 93 and etc." And I said "sure" and didn't notice until later how sneakily he manipulated the schedule so that I got stuck with #90. I'll feel a lot better about life and the world and things like that when #90 is in the rear-view mirror. So I decided to just get it out of the way so I can start contemplating the idea that I may be happy again someday. I'll never be able to start to learn to trust people again with this hanging over my head. And if I ever say "sure" the next time icctrombone suggests that we should do a joint review thread, it will be my own fault. You know what gets me about that cover? It's probably one of Kirby's worst covers. Like he couldn't put forward his best effort because the negative energy was making him depressed and he churned this one out so he could move on as quickly as possible. Journey into Mystery #90March 1963 "Trapped by the Carbon-Copy Man!" There's this planet called Xarta and the inhabitants are orange-skinned and very war-like. And very badly drawn. They have names like Ugarth and Zano. They leave Xarta in their spaceships, headed for Earth. They brag that they are unbeatable because they have THE GREAT POWER. (Which is their ability to change their appearance, or even turn invisible. They are second-rate Skrulls. Ugh, it's so bad.) Meanwhile Don Blake is torn up about the whole Jane Foster thing. And how he loves her but can't say anything. Because of Odin and all his rules. Oh man! This crap goes on for two pages. (Some of the drawings of Jane are pretty good. Al Hartley drew Patsy Walker for a long time, and I've read a few of those, and they are pretty funny! It looks like he was tossed into super-hero comics and was so uncomfortable that he wasn't given much of a chance to figure out what he was doing.) Meanwhile, out on the street, everybody is all upset about the new laws. Thor investigates and, to make a long story short, he discovers that many government figures have been replaced by shape-shifting Xartans with names like Ugarth and Zano. The Xartans are trying to sow discord among the Eathlings with dumb laws like the one where you have to walk to work from now on. No using your car! Thor finds the main Xartan warship and attackes the Xartans and they try their advanced weapons on him and they freeze him with ice-powers and one of them turns into a giant gladiator and then the main war chief turns invisible and so on and so on. It's painful. Thor finally hurls the chief's flagship into space and the fleet follows. There are a few Xartans left on Earth and Thor (who must have read Fantastic Four #2) persuades them to turn into trees. (Instead of cows.) And because the Xartans take on all the attributes of whatever they've turned into, they are now actually trees with no free will to change back and escape. So that's the time Thor was trapped by the Carbon-Copy Man. Commentary: So how did this happen? I'm guessing that Stan felt that Kirby had gotten Thor started and he wanted him to move on to another project. And he was trying to find somebody to take over Thor while Kirby wasn't available. Maybe Al Hartley was always a temporary choice while Stan was waiting for Joe Sinnott's schedule to open up. Or maybe Lee thought Hartley would be able to handle it. Lee and Hartley had been working together on Patsy Walker for a while at this point. In the last few months, I've read a handful of the Patsy Walker stories by Lee and Hartley, and I find them very amusing. I'd like to read more. I wish more stories were available at Comixology. In any case, Lee asked Harley to give Thor a shot. Whatever permanent plans might have been in the works would have been quashed pretty quickly because Sinnott is the artist on the very next issue. I think it's a lot more likely that Hartley was always a fill-in artist because there was nobody else available that month. If Hartley had been intended as a possible permanent artist, he would have done a better job. It looks like a rush job. They story is just so bad, with so many elements lifted from Fantastic Four #2. Like everybody involved in the writing was just slapping down words on the page to get this one to the printer. (You might even notice that Thor has the costume from the origin story, with the slit down the side of his tunic, with his ribs exposed. As if nobody could be bothered to make sure that Hartley had the most recent character sheet for reference.) My online research turned up an interview with Hartley where he said he couldn't remember any of the details about why he ended up as the artist on JIM #90. He also states that he knows he's a lot more suited to Patsy Walker and series like that. I'll provide a link for it later tonight if I can find it again.
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Post by Hoosier X on Jan 25, 2024 23:10:39 GMT -5
Oh boy! I'm glad that's over! My life begins again as of RIGHT NOW!
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Post by Hoosier X on Jan 25, 2024 23:14:57 GMT -5
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 25, 2024 23:25:10 GMT -5
JIM # 90
Okay, my apologies for tricking you into reviewing this issue. But It is a thread review battle and war is hell. The only thing I will add about this issue was that 2 items of note occurred in the world of Thor, 1. Blake is no longer acting like a person who found a hammer, he is adopting and remembering life in Asgard, His Hammer conjures up a long forgotten event when Odin counseled his sons. In the image, they both looked like Thor, Helmut and all. 2. Odin forbids Thor to reveal his ID to Jane. This will be ongoing for a long time. What annoyed me about this issue was that there were many leaps and assumptions about the invading army from Xarta. How did Thor know that the metal on the ship was not from earth ? How did He know that the three warriors left would take on the properties of the trees that they transformed into? It's not like they told him all their secrets. At the end, Thor throws Ugarth the warlord into space passing the armada , and they have to pursue him into deep space. That's some throwing arm. Okay , okay Hoosier X, I owe you one...
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Post by chaykinstevens on Jan 26, 2024 4:20:35 GMT -5
Journey Into Mystery # 89The Thunder God and the ThugWriter: Stan Lee, Scripter: Larry Lieber, Artist: Kirby, Inker, Dick Ayers According to the credits, Stan Lee was just the plotter. If he'd done more, I'm sure he would have let everyone know about it.
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 26, 2024 11:27:37 GMT -5
Journey into Mystery # 91 Writer: Stan Lee, Script: Larry Lieber, Art: Joe SinnottPlot summary:A magician named Sandu gains supernatural power from Loki , who is unable to leave Asgard. With this power ,he is able to make large buildings disappear and remove memories from people and virtually anything he thinks about. He even sends buildings to the moon and other Dimensions. Thor attacks him but is defeated when Sandu ambushes him by with girders and metal equipment which suddenly appears around him. Thor is bound by chains and has a building dropped on top of him. Odin, seeing his predicament, send Valkyries with the Belt of power to Thor which he uses to free himself. Once free Thor again confronts Sandu and throws his hammer at him, which is immediately transported into another Dimensions. In the Other Dimension, Sandu attempts to lift and possess the Hammer but burns his mental power out trying to do so. All that he has done is reverted to normal once he is powerless. Comments:First off, I like the Kirby cover. The Interior artwork is by Joe Sinnott in a rare penciling job for Marvel. He is more known as an Inker but his work here is clean , if not spectacular. The story has a few problems , the first being that Loki can give Galactus/Phoenix level power to a common magician and it seems to have no limits. Whatever he thinks , becomes reality like a deranged Scarlet Witch or the Beyonder. It would have served the story better if the power had a time limit or another type of limitation. As I stated in a previous post, Loki has too much power and the writing is problematic because of this. Sandu teleports the remnants of his crimes to the Moon. Yep, the moon. It is being established in these early issues that Thor has an open dialogue with Odin. He has gone to high mountains to converse, although in a previous issue, he just mentally contacted him as Don Blake. Thor is severely knocked out by running into steel girders , which doesn't reflect his strength or durability. For the 4th or 5th time, Thor prays to Odin for help when He's in a jam. This can't continue , because it hampers his heroism and is a bit of a cheat. This marks the 3rd appearance by Loki in 9 issues. It becomes a problem for me that Loki is ever present as the villain in the Thor series. His appearing so often is what made the series I remember sort of weak. Maybe when Kirby takes over for good, his presence is scattered more. Cool moments:Despite it being a cheat, it's cool to see the Valyries arrive to give Thor the belt of power.
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