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Post by driver1980 on Feb 9, 2024 6:05:44 GMT -5
I know a “Golden Age” might often be partially about nostalgia, but not necessarily so. Sometimes one can enjoy a run from before their time. Sometimes, a particular era is just great. Of course, it’s always subjective.
Might I, Your Honour, make a case for Batman’s tenure in the 80s being one of the best? Would anyone agree?
We had great storylines (I really like The Untold Legend of the Batman) and arcs, plus pivotal moments such as the introduction of Jason Todd, the debut of The Outsiders, etc. I am not a fan of either The Dark Knight Returns or The Killing Joke (nice art on the latter, but not keen on the story); however, I accept those are iconic Bat-Tales for many. I at least like Batman: Year One, whose influence can be felt today.
I like that no rogues gallery will remain stagnant. The 1980s saw the debut of the likes of Killer Croc, Nocturna, Black Mask, KGBeast, Film Freak, etc. Sure, not all of those are necessarily the best or most memorable, but I like a lot of those introduced - and if I want to be less pedantic, perhaps a case could be made for those who debuted only months prior to 1980.
”Underrated” is often an overused/misused word by yours truly. I never really know what the perceptions are like out there, so it often feels like poor terminology on my part; but if I may use (misuse?) the word here, I would apply it to Norm Breyfogle. And on other artists, I pay tribute to the 80s work of Jim Aparo and Alan Davis.
And could a case be made - perhaps? - that Commissioner Gordon, Alfred and even Gotham City itself had some of the best character development during the 80s?
I like all eras of Batman. I enjoy various detective-oriented 60s tales. I absolutely love various 70s tales. But I do like 80s Batman.
Let me end by stating that it is never my desire to be in an echo chamber, so I am equally interested in the views of anyone who may consider 1980s Batman to be the nadir of the character’s run.
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Post by Hoosier X on Feb 9, 2024 6:50:58 GMT -5
I love it! I read a lot of the 1980s issues of Batman and Detective as they were coming out. I had most of the issues of Batman from 345 to 410 and Detective from 510 to 580. (I still have them, and I filled in the blanks about 2012.)
I’ve read a lot of Batman, so I hesitate to say it’s my favorite era. But it might be. I’ve read this run more often than any other Batman run. I’m sure I read it through at least four or five times between 1990 and 2012. And a couple of times since then. (And I’ll be reading it again later this year as I’m reading my Detective Comics collection from #244 to present, and I’ll be reading Batman as well when I get to that period where the continuity between the books was so tight. I’ll probably get that far at some point over the summer.)
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Post by Cei-U! on Feb 9, 2024 8:34:13 GMT -5
It's not my favorite era--that would be either the 1940s or the early '70s-- but the '80s are pretty darn good. I guess I should say they were pretty good up until Year One and the rest of the post-Crisis soft reboot which absolutely moiderized the Darknight Detective I knew and loved. But prior to that? Man, I loved those books! With Gene Colan and Don Newton alternating on the two main titles and Jim Aparo on Batman and the Outsiders, it was arguably the best period for Bat-art ever. And the writing was also top-notch with Gerry Conway and Mike W. Barr at the top of their game and Doug Moench doing his best to match them (not always successfully, as a lot of his work, especially when Nocturna was involved, was egregiously overwritten, but still...). And you're absolutely right, driver, that the '80s saw a much-needed expansion of ol' Cape-and-Cowl's Rogues Gallery. My only real complaints are A) the introduction of Jason Todd (I prefer a Robinless Batman) and B) the relocation back to Wayne Manor, both huge steps backward in the character's maturation (in my opinion, natch). So yeah, a great era for Batman comics, one I'm still actively collecting.
Cei-U!
I summon the dynamic decade!
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Feb 9, 2024 10:23:02 GMT -5
While my first Batman comics were in the 90's, most memorably issues of LOTDK, when I did discover a LCS and back issues a lot of the Batman comics that caught my eye ended up being 80's Batman. Detective Comics #535 I am pretty sure was my first 80's Batman comic that I bought strictly for the eye catching cover. From there I talked to LCS patrons and I got pointed to A Death in the Family, which then sent me on a mission to read the issues following up to that story. Which I remember being the most disappointed that the cover artist didn't do the interior art. It was my first introduction to Mike Mignola. And I still wonder how it would have looked if he did do the art. Not that Jim Aparo's wasn't top notch. He is one of my favorite artist for Joker. Then I went back to issue #400 and just started trying to get those issues prior to Starlin's. I liked the Max Allan Collins' issues a lot. I especially remember, unforutantly only one, issue that Kevin Nowlan did the art on. I remember it had like some murderous mime on it trying to kill Batman with a knife. Dunno why that issues always stands out in my head. I can't remember the story but I can remember the cover vaguely. And that 80-page issue leading up to #600 with some hulk of a villain similar to Bane which had some nice pin up art in it. Can't remember the villain's name. And as someone mentioned KGBeast. It's been awhile since I read it but I remember liking it. Than there is a Lonely Place of Dying which debuts my favorite, if not only, Robin I ever liked; Tim Drake. Who went on to have an excellent solo series, though that started in the 90's. There was an issue in Detective Comics, I don't remember the number that Harlin Ellison wrote about some night that Batman goes on patrol and all the situations he comes across were really just mundane despite the looks of things. It had a nice panoramic cover too. I have far less Detective Comics than I do Batman. There maybe some one shots too that I don't remember that came out in the 80's. Then of course the 80's held the best Batman (live action) movie ever made.  I maintain that. Though I wasn't around for the Adam West movie as a kid, I have seen it and enjoy it as well. Probably the second best Batman movie. Wish I could say Mask of the Phantasm too but that was the good ole 90's. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2024 11:35:58 GMT -5
70s Batman is my favourite, it had all those 80-100 pagers. I still liked the 80s and the first 3-4 years of the 90. And of course, this glossy UK Batman magazine that reprinted classic 80s Batman.
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Post by driver1980 on Feb 9, 2024 11:38:36 GMT -5
Ah, Batman Monthly from here in the UK. Brings back memories. Loved it!
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Feb 9, 2024 13:21:00 GMT -5
I loved Batman in the '80s. Overall, it might even be my favourite decade of the character. The stuff from early decade still felt serious, in a post-Neal Adams kinda way, with great adventures like "The Lazarus Affair", the four-part story in Batman #358–359, and Detective Comics #525–526 that saw the first appearance of Killer Croc, and the aforementioned "Untold Tales of Batman". Then later you had real favourites of mine like "The Killing Joke", "The Dark Knight Returns", "Year One", and "Arkham Asylum" etc.
So yeah, as far as I'm concerned, it was probably my favourite period of Batman comics (though I do also love the '70s comics too).
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Post by driver1980 on Feb 9, 2024 13:24:01 GMT -5
Ah, “The Lazarus Affair”. From a time when multi-part tales were done because they needed to be, not because they wanted to release a trade down the line. Felt quite epic when I first read it.
Has it ever been reprinted? It seems a no-brainier. Far less worthy tales have been reprinted.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2024 14:34:49 GMT -5
Ah, “The Lazarus Affair”. From a time when multi-part tales were done because they needed to be, not because they wanted to release a trade down the line. Felt quite epic when I first read it. Has it ever been reprinted? It seems a no-brainier. Far less worthy tales have been reprinted. It finally got collected in Tales of the Batman: Marv Wolfman Volume 1 in 2020. |
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Feb 9, 2024 15:22:57 GMT -5
I will pick up any late 1970s and 1980s-era Batman or Detective issues if I can get them for $2 or less, which usually isn't too difficult. A lot of these books focus on the classic villains, which I enjoy. I've read a good bit of Silver Age and early Bronze Age Batman and it's decent but not necessarily my cup of tea, especially the Detective Comics in the early 1970s that had a supernatural bent to it.
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Post by MWGallaher on Feb 9, 2024 16:40:28 GMT -5
I thought The Ventriloquist ('TEC 583, on sale in 1987, by Wagner, Grant, and Breyfogle) was--of those that debuted while I was actively reading--the only addition to the Batman's Rogues Gallery comparable to the iconic classics (Joker, Two-Face, Catwoman, Riddler, Penguin, etc.). I've always thought the best of the villains were defined by specific mental conditions/disorders: Joker's mania, Two-Face's bipolar (not multiple personality disorder!), Riddler's OCD... The Ventriloquist brought a fresh variety of mental disturbance, albeit one that's not so easy to specify.
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Post by tarkintino on Feb 9, 2024 17:36:38 GMT -5
I will pick up any late 1970s and 1980s-era Batman or Detective issues if I can get them for $2 or less, which usually isn't too difficult. A lot of these books focus on the classic villains, which I enjoy. I've read a good bit of Silver Age and early Bronze Age Batman and it's decent but not necessarily my cup of tea, especially the Detective Comics in the early 1970s that had a supernatural bent to it. Early Bronze Age Batman was the character and co-stars at their best. Batman was born not only from the adventurous side of pulp stories, but the mysterious and yes, supernatural side as well, so it was a perfect fit to fully restore the heart of the original, dark Batman, only it was occasionally mixed with the then in-vogue supernatural / gothic story wave seen on TV and film of the period. This was not limited to Batman titles, as it would also have an interesting presence in the final year or so of the original Teen Titans comic.
driver1980: the most interesting 1980's Batman stories dealt with something he was forced to face in 1969: breaking longstanding ties; in Batman #217 (December, 1969), Dick Grayson moved out to go to college, leading Bruce Wayne to openly embrace being a solo crimefighter again, losing the 60s trappings (which had already happened from the editor and writer's changes made two year earlier), and being more of the detective again, which continued Batman's greatest run of stories. In the 1980's Batman would break free again, with conflicts he could not accept within the JLA, thus leading to the creation of The Outsiders, which I felt was--in its early stage--one of the best examples of a flagship comic book superhero able to successfully spin-off into another series with a language all its own, and not simply be the West Coast Avengers version of the JLA.
Add the occasional revisiting of the tension between Grayson and Wayne (about Wayne learning to respect that his former junior partner was every bit the detective and leader he was, along with Wayne coming to grips with Grayson wondering why he was never officially adopted as Bruce's son), and 1980s Batman was an always fascinating, evolutionary period for the character--at least up to midway in the decade.
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Post by Calidore on Feb 9, 2024 20:27:23 GMT -5
Why haven't Doug Moench's Batman/Detective runs been collected? Pretty much everyone else's from that era have, it seems like.
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Post by spoon on Feb 9, 2024 21:47:48 GMT -5
I started reading comics in the mid-80s. The late 80s Batman is what I grew up with and probably still the decade of Batman comics that I've read the most. My two favorite Batman artists worked on Batman in the 80s: Jim Aparo (who I grew up reading) and Don Newton (whose Batman work I only read years later). I also really love Batman and the Outsiders.
I'm eventually going to read more of Aparo's 70s Batman work on Brave and the Bold. I really like his 70s art on Aquaman and the Spectre from Adventure Comics.
One of my goals from the 2024 Resolutions thread was to read Batman comics from a bunch of different decades, so by the end of the year I'll be able to compare decades better. Right now, I'm reading an Omnibus from the 1950s.
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Post by codystarbuck on Feb 9, 2024 23:15:44 GMT -5
If you leave out special projects, I much prefer the 1970s Batman books, overall. There are specific stories, in each era; but I have a lot more favorites from the very late 60s through the 70s. I liked Batman as globe trotting hero and there are some nice runs in there, plus Ra's al Ghul, nice turns with the classic villains, Englehart & Rogers, some Len Wein, Archie Goodwin, Frank Robbins as a writer, and stuff like the trial to determine who murdered Batman, with different villains claiming they did it, in each issue, until the real culprit is revealed.
I liked Doug Moench's Batman and visually love anything that Don Newton did; but I am not a fan of Conway, as a writer and Alan Grant didn't do a lot for me, on a consistent basis. The regular Batman got bogged down into stunt storylines, like "A Death in The Family," "A Lonely Place of Dying," "10 Nights of the Beast," etc, etc......
The best batman book of the 80s, for my money, came at the very end of the decade: Legends of the Dark Knight, and even it struggled until Moench & Gulacy reunited on "Prey."
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I maintain that. Though I wasn't around for the Adam West movie as a kid, I have seen it and enjoy it as well. Probably the second best Batman movie. Wish I could say Mask of the Phantasm too but that was the good ole 90's.
