shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Sept 5, 2024 7:56:10 GMT -5
I remember not being too scared of the Hammer films, but my stepdad said something like, “In their heyday, they would have been scary films.” Yes. I believe they were the first to use (fake) blood in color. We take that for granted now. Did you ever see my exploration of all his surviving performances? I'm actually thinking of turning my Top 25 Bela Lugosi Performances thread into a Youtube video too. He gets a bad wrap for his performance as The Monster because Universal totally changed the script after they filmed his part. Originally, it was supposed to be shown that this was Ygor in the body, and that he was now almost totally blind, explaining Bela's facial expressions and physical performance better. |
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Post by driver1980 on Sept 5, 2024 8:20:52 GMT -5
I shall explore that thread, thank you.
I didn’t know about that script change. Interesting.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Sept 5, 2024 9:43:42 GMT -5
I shall explore that thread, thank you. I didn’t know about that script change. Interesting. If I recall correctly, he also originally had spoken lines that they edited out. |
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Sept 6, 2024 17:30:26 GMT -5
Interesting video, Shax. I have never seen the film, as I'm not a big fan of early films like that as a general rule of thumb. But there are clearly some pretty striking visuals in the movie and I really liked the sound of that alternate Phillip Glass score. Kinda makes me want to watch it now.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Sept 6, 2024 21:12:47 GMT -5
Kinda makes me want to watch it now. I really hope you will! I'd love to hear your thoughts. |
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Post by berkley on Sept 8, 2024 1:08:42 GMT -5
The Lugosi Dracula is one of those things that's sort of "beyond good or bad" for me. It's just been such a huge part of my pop culture background for so long that I don't really care too much how technically flawed it might be from a critical standpoint. Actually the same goes for Stoker's novel, which is itself often criticised as a clumsily structured melodrama.
I watched the Spanish-language Dracula for the first time just a year or two ago and it is fascinating to compare the two. Definitely worth a look for anyone even casually interested in the film or the character.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Sept 8, 2024 8:13:52 GMT -5
The Lugosi Dracula is one of those things that's sort of "beyond good or bad" for me. It's just been such a huge part of my pop culture background for so long that I don't really care too much how technically flawed it might be from a critical standpoint. I certainly hope I didn't come off as intending to criticize the film. Rather, the purpose of the video is to make Dracula accessible to modern audiences for precisely the reason you mention--it is a critical masterpiece that transcends its qualities, both positive and negative--and I want anyone interested in the film to be able to enjoy it and to be able to see past the barriers created by nine decades of lost cultural context. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 8, 2024 19:28:40 GMT -5
I came to Universal much much later in life. As a kid, scary movies were too much for my imagination to handle and I would end up with nightmares. It didn't have to even be a scary movie; a tv comedy with a horror element added was enough. I had nightmare safter seeing the Gilligan's Island episode, with Dr Boris Balinkoff (Vito Scotti), when he switches minds between castaways. I only made it up to the point where Skipper and Gilligan find the hidden dungeon/lab and see the skeleton in a cage. I was up half the night, that time. Same with a Viewmaster reel from the Batman tv series, with Catwoman and a lost treasure, in a cave (I think it was the first Catwoman story, with the Tiger pit and then she "falls to her doom" in a cavern, trying to collect the treasure). It had a scary atmosphere and it was enough. Young Frankenstein got me to watch the James Wale and later stuff and Hammer and Kim Newman got me to finally watch Lugosi. I'm a bit more partial to the Frank Langella film version, as I felt they gave the Dracula character more depth.
I love Hammer's take on Dr Frankenstein as being the central evil, perpetuating things as he moves along, rather than just repeating the monster. It helps to have Peter Cushing as Frankenstein.
From a cinematic standpoint, I'm still bigger on Murnau's Nosferatu than Browning's Dracula, even with the minimalist sets. The Germans were just so much further ahead with lighting and camera techniques.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Sept 8, 2024 20:31:09 GMT -5
From a cinematic standpoint, I'm still bigger on Murnau's Nosferatu than Browning's Dracula, even with the minimalist sets. The Germans were just so much further ahead with lighting and camera techniques. Hear, hear! Couldn't agree more! Murnau's Nosferatu was an absolute masterpiece. I also quite enjoyed Herzog's remake, although he made the vampire more of an abject object of decay than a powerful supernatural entity. ----- That was an interesting analysis, shaxper. One point that struck me when looking at those old scenes is how much they play into the antisemitism that caused so much agony in the '30s. Dracula is wearing a six-pointed star as a medal and is a refined, intelligent, powerful "stranger among us" figure with a predatory attitude. It's very unsettling to make a parallel between that representation and the antisemitic propaganda so common at the time. (A cursory Google search told me that I'm not the first one to make that connection). That's scarier than actual vampires. I don't know if it was deliberate or not, but still. I hadn't heard about Philip Glass' score. I'll make sure to look it up! |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Sept 8, 2024 21:47:57 GMT -5
From a cinematic standpoint, I'm still bigger on Murnau's Nosferatu than Browning's Dracula, even with the minimalist sets. The Germans were just so much further ahead with lighting and camera techniques. Hear, hear! Couldn't agree more! Murnau's Nosferatu was an absolute masterpiece. I also quite enjoyed Herzog's remake, although he made the vampire more of an abject object of decay than a powerful supernatural entity. ----- That was an interesting analysis, shaxper. One point that struck me when looking at those old scenes is how much they play into the antisemitism that caused so much agony in the '30s. Dracula is wearing a six-pointed star as a medal and is a refined, intelligent, powerful "stranger among us" figure with a predatory attitude. It's very unsettling to make a parallel between that representation and the antisemitic propaganda so common at the time. (A cursory Google search told me that I'm not the first one to make that connection). That's scarier than actual vampires. I don't know if it was deliberate or not, but still. I hadn't heard about Philip Glass' score. I'll make sure to look it up! Thanks, RR. The anti-semetic angle had never occurred to me, especially as Lugosi's dashing/charming facade doesn't jibe well with Jewish stereotypes of the time, but I do think the fact that he is both foreign and non-christian is central to the tension of the film. The six pointed star may be more indicative of that. Is it Jewish? Is it Pagan? Well it ain't a cross! |
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 8, 2024 22:27:38 GMT -5
Hear, hear! Couldn't agree more! Murnau's Nosferatu was an absolute masterpiece. I also quite enjoyed Herzog's remake, although he made the vampire more of an abject object of decay than a powerful supernatural entity. ----- That was an interesting analysis, shaxper . One point that struck me when looking at those old scenes is how much they play into the antisemitism that caused so much agony in the '30s. Dracula is wearing a six-pointed star as a medal and is a refined, intelligent, powerful "stranger among us" figure with a predatory attitude. It's very unsettling to make a parallel between that representation and the antisemitic propaganda so common at the time. (A cursory Google search told me that I'm not the first one to make that connection). That's scarier than actual vampires. I don't know if it was deliberate or not, but still. I hadn't heard about Philip Glass' score. I'll make sure to look it up! Thanks, RR. The anti-semetic angle had never occurred to me, especially as Lugosi's dashing/charming facade doesn't jibe well with Jewish stereotypes of the time, but I do think the fact that he is both foreign and non-christian is central to the tension of the film. The six pointed star may be more indicative of that. Is it Jewish? Is it Pagan? Well it ain't a cross! Hexagrams feature in Hindu and Buddhist symbolism, as well as occult practices and other cultures. It is a basic geometric pattern, which makes its constructiion relatively simple, meaning it could have been developed independently, but in parallel to another culture, as well as passed along via contact. the Theosophist used it, along with the swastika, the ankh and other symbols used in other religions. Occultists used it in rituals and the 20s and 30s were a time of people dabbling in mysticisms. Just as the Nazis latched onto the swastika, others did the same with the hexagram. I think the occult connotations were probably more intended than a Jewish analogue, though we are so steeped in it representing Judaism and the state of Israel, just as we associate the swastika with the Nazis, rather than Buddhism or other Eastern belief systems. In a similar fashion, the pentagram, another easy geometric shape, has been associated, in the West, with paganism and demonic worship. |
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Post by berkley on Sept 9, 2024 0:51:35 GMT -5
From a cinematic standpoint, I'm still bigger on Murnau's Nosferatu than Browning's Dracula, even with the minimalist sets. The Germans were just so much further ahead with lighting and camera techniques. Hear, hear! Couldn't agree more! Murnau's Nosferatu was an absolute masterpiece. I also quite enjoyed Herzog's remake, although he made the vampire more of an abject object of decay than a powerful supernatural entity. ----- That was an interesting analysis, shaxper . One point that struck me when looking at those old scenes is how much they play into the antisemitism that caused so much agony in the '30s. Dracula is wearing a six-pointed star as a medal and is a refined, intelligent, powerful "stranger among us" figure with a predatory attitude. It's very unsettling to make a parallel between that representation and the antisemitic propaganda so common at the time. (A cursory Google search told me that I'm not the first one to make that connection). That's scarier than actual vampires. I don't know if it was deliberate or not, but still. I hadn't heard about Philip Glass' score. I'll make sure to look it up!
The Murnau film is one of the greatest films of all time, no question. I saw the Herzog remake at some point in the 80s or early 90s and it didn't make a huge impression on me. But I saw it again last year or the year before and changed my mind completely. This time around it made an enormous impact. Like, I think, any good remake, it doesn't try to replace the original, but rather present the same story and characters from a different angle. I also found Isabelle Adjani's performance mesmerising this time around, whereas I think I hardly noticed her on my first viewing, no idea why.
Not sure about the antisemitism theme, but definitely possible, I'll keep an eye out for it next time I watch. But in general I think it's accepted that part of the subtext of the novel is a fear of the "eastern hordes" and that feeling has at various times become mixed up with antisemitism, so I don't discount (no pun, etc) the possibility.
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Post by berkley on Sept 9, 2024 0:54:13 GMT -5
The Lugosi Dracula is one of those things that's sort of "beyond good or bad" for me. It's just been such a huge part of my pop culture background for so long that I don't really care too much how technically flawed it might be from a critical standpoint. I certainly hope I didn't come off as intending to criticize the film. Rather, the purpose of the video is to make Dracula accessible to modern audiences for precisely the reason you mention--it is a critical masterpiece that transcends its qualities, both positive and negative--and I want anyone interested in the film to be able to enjoy it and to be able to see past the barriers created by nine decades of lost cultural context. No, no, I was just speaking in general terms. On the contrary, you've inspired me to watch the movie again this October. I might try to watch nothing but horror movies and tv shows this October and read nothing but horror books, etc, etc. |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Sept 9, 2024 1:02:23 GMT -5
I certainly hope I didn't come off as intending to criticize the film. Rather, the purpose of the video is to make Dracula accessible to modern audiences for precisely the reason you mention--it is a critical masterpiece that transcends its qualities, both positive and negative--and I want anyone interested in the film to be able to enjoy it and to be able to see past the barriers created by nine decades of lost cultural context. No, no, I was just speaking in general terms. On the contrary, you've inspired me to watch the movie again this October. I might try to watch nothing but horror movies and tv shows this October and read nothing but horror books, etc, etc. Sounds like a fantastic idea! Perhaps we need a thread for this, as I pretty much started doing the same on September 1st. |
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Post by berkley on Sept 11, 2024 1:24:40 GMT -5
No, no, I was just speaking in general terms. On the contrary, you've inspired me to watch the movie again this October. I might try to watch nothing but horror movies and tv shows this October and read nothing but horror books, etc, etc. Sounds like a fantastic idea! Perhaps we need a thread for this, as I pretty much started doing the same on September 1st. You used to do a Hallowe'en or an October thread one time on the Community board, didn't you? I'm still trying to figure out what exactly I'm going to read, watch, listen to, etc. Actually I'm fairly well settled on the books I'll try to read, and have some ideas for the movies (now including the Lugosi Dracula), and music, but I'm still vague about comics, tv, etc. |
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