Yeah, it is an odd one. It always felt like the regular heroes were kinda glad there was a nutcase out there doing what they're not allowed to do (but secretly would like to.)

That's the point: the Punisher's mission is not one of the extremist Right Wing, the latter (particularly in modern day society) are not advocates for those who were abused or did not find justice, but agents of mass anarchy in order to institute their brand of (generally White Supremacist aligned) "order", at the expense and/or destruction of all who are ideologically and racially unlike themselves. That is not the Punisher by any stretch of the imagination.



I've always understood the purpose of the Punisher, because as someone who lived in the early 1970s of his creation, I fully realized what the character was commenting on: in his original version, he was a textbook case of one suffering from an unimaginable crime and felt there was no justice (in the legal sense) that would ever rectify his loss (obviously), or stop the kind of crime that destroyed his life from impacting others. He mirrored the Paul Benjamin character from the Death Wish novel (and "Paul Kersey" in the 1974 film adaptation), which in turn, echoed the flood of violent crime plaguing early 1970s America, with endless numbers of citizens openly expressing their feeling of hopelessness and having no faith in law enforcement (parts of my own family related to that experience & feeling).

One can see The Punisher's violent crusade was inspired by and built on a need to correct a moral / civil inversion on a national or global level, which had not been properly addressed, which is not the mindset of Right Wing anarchists seeking to damn entire populations through the "principals" of fascism.

In his origin story from Marvel Preview #2 (1975), he expressed his view of the world quite clearly:

"I only know there's a war going on in this country--between citizen and criminal and the citizens are losing--just as I lost so long ago"

Undoubtedly, his statement was rooted in PTSD and a sense of wanting justice for every victim of the world, a behavior which in all obviousness, true Right Wing zealot (no matter which corner of the "Wing" he occupies) does not possess by choice and nature.


Over the decades, I've questioned superhero fans who shine a light of negative judgement on the Punisher as if his methods are somehow worse than God-like superbeings who routinely destroy populated cities, cause and/or invite collateral damage across the planet, do not answer to any form of authority, show a lack of discipline and sense in that they merely "allow" mass destruction from threats, but rarely end the threat, which should be their prime goal as superheroes. If they cannot accomplish that (and not due to having a moral code against killing, or something along that line), then the heroes are threats as well (but not in the way explored in that cartoony Civil War). Superheroes pose a greater danger to lives than the Punisher on his most successful day, and he--in his best stories--focused on the target, not wildly causing widespread destruction, seemingly not caring that regular people are all around them (until a writer thought it was time to write a "relevant" story about superhero violence / overreach).

Ultimately, the Punisher was a successful creation for the societal reflection he provided, but he also provided a needed edge in the then-maturing comic book universe and in a sense, gave a break to "safe" costumed characters who were not going to end threats to the public they claimed to care so much about.

ps There are plenty of pirated Punisher logos on products, and have been for at least a couple of decades, from what I have seen in stores and catalogs; so, it wasn't a recent explosion of its use. The Netflix series and the films made the character and the symbol more prominent. Ironically, the first Punisher movie, with Dolph Lundgren, dumped the idea of him wearing it, thinking it looked too "comic book." Instead, he had a skull-headed dagger. I think the producers underestimated the power of symbols like that.

Because as he is usually written, The Punisher doesn't make mistakes.  Somehow, miraculously, he's never killed an innocent person (as written by, say, Garth Ennis) either through mistaken identification, stray bullet, whatever.  I guess this isn't really "miraculous" since Frank Castle knows that he exists in a world where with careful preparation, you can rack up a body count in the thousands and be certain that you've never screwed up.  That sort of mentality and justification works in comic books, but makes about as much sense in the real world as kids donning a Superman cape or downing a can of spinach and jumping off their roof or trying to stop a train did - except we're now having to deal with grown "adults" who think along the same lines which is horrifying.

Without listening to the podcast, I would suggest that the main difference is that The Punisher is a responsible, conscientious killer (again - comics) whereas a police officer wearing his emblem doesn't  understand how such a thing could never exist in their world.  

And, man, not to shame anyone who wears a Superman shirt or whatever in public (I do it) but a police officer wearing The Punisher's emblem on his vest while working?  That is infantile.  Could you imagine a doctor showing up to perform an operation while dressed as Doctor Strange?  A preacher showing up to deliver an eulogy dressed as The Spectre?  The Punisher killing a rapist while dressed as The Hulk?  

Oddly, I'm not sure what Conway "thinks the character is about" since his Punisher (the one who debuted in Spider-Man 129, at any rate) was about as reckless, dumb, and misguided as these extremists are.  Didn't Conway's Punisher try to kill Spider-Man simply because a cackling madman dressed as a Jackal gave him his word it was the right thing to do?  The argument that that Punisher and, say, the January 6 Insurrectionists are cut from a different cloth does sound disingenuous to me.

Skip the Vietnam one...believe me.  I was gonna include it in my Vietnam through comics war thread, but found it even more insulting to the intelligence and actual history, even compared to things like Captain Hunter, which at least had naivety as a defense.  Ennis has written excellent WW2 material, but couldn't seem to rise above Hollywood cliche and poor research for Vietnam.  Plus, no one has ever written the character as an actual Marine, let alone a soldier.


Mack Bolan was vastly superior, even with its inherent flaws.  It followed similar comic book logic of Bolan inflicting massive damage and emerging (usually) unscathed and able to outfit himself with everything from automatic weapons to mortars and grenades; but, Pendleton actually worked out his firefight scenes, on his farm (so he claimed) and he actually spent a decent amount of story dealing with the morality of Bolan's crusade and those wanting it stopped and those who covertly aided him.  It was pulp, but at the better end of the scale, under Pendleton, who only wrote the Mafia books.  Other writers took over for the Golden Eagle takeover, with him working for the government.

Innovation put out a handful of issues, adapting the first novel ; but, it was hurt by their delays and then bankruptcy.  Ironically, the first issue of Marvel Preview magazine, with the Punisher (the one that goes for insane prices), features an interview with Pendleton, about the Executioner series.  I'm betting that it was part of some settlement, to avoid a lawsuit for plagiarism, though there were plenty of Bolan knockoffs on paperback racks, from Penetrators, Death Merchants, Nick Carter:  Killmasters, Casca The Eternal Mercenary, to The Destroyer, though Casca and Remo Williams (aka The Destroyer) were a bit more original.

It doesn't matter whether or not cops who have adopted the Punisher emblem get the point of the character. It's a freakin' skull. It screams "fear me" in a universal language. Tells you all you need to know about how they go about their jobs, and the culture they belong to.

If you have not read his origin story from Marvel Preview #2 (1975), I would suggest you start there. Being a creative work of the era he was designed to operate in, its probably the best representation of the Punisher in that 1970s environment.