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Post by rich on Sept 28, 2024 19:37:33 GMT -5
"Part 2: Books which still require translation: Blueberry (6 volumes) (1969 – 2007) La Piste des Navajos (1969) Mister Blueberry (1995) Ombres sur Tombstone (1997) Geronimo l'Apache (1999) OK Corral (2003) Dust (2005) Apaches (2007)" Well, we found some of our missing Blueberry stuff...
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Post by commond on Sept 28, 2024 19:53:08 GMT -5
That's all post-Charlier aside from the La Piste des Navajos, which I believe left English speaking fans with an unresolved cliffhanger due to it never being translated into English. I've only read the Epic collections of the Charlier/Giraud albums, so I don't know how true this is, but people say Giraud's writing isn't that great on the later stories.
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Post by Calidore on Sept 28, 2024 21:54:17 GMT -5
You say what you quoted offers a rationale for what is going on... but I don't see it? Why omit half (or more) of his great stuff but print plenty of his weakest work? What's the rationale?
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Post by MRPs_Missives on Sept 29, 2024 1:15:28 GMT -5
One of my circle of comic kin, the organizer of several of our local cons, is a big Moebius fan. He's followed the Blueberry situation over the years, waiting for an edition to go to print in the US, and keeps telling me the scuttlebutt he hears about it, so this is all hearsay, but this is what I was told.
The rights to the Blueberry stuff is separate from the solo Moebius stuff which is all separate from the stuff Moebius did with Jodo. You have to negotiate three separate deals if you want access to all of it. This is a different situation than it was in the 80s when Marvel/Epic produced the line of Moebius volumes. So currently Humanoids has the English language rights to the Moebius/Jodo material, Dark Horse to the solo Moebius stuff, and currently no one has the English language rights to the Blueberry stuff. There have been 2 publishers who have tried in the last 10 years, neither went to print. The first was about 10 years ago (not sure of the publisher, may have been Top Shelf/IDW). They had the rights, made an announcement at one of those Diamond retailer conferences of their plans, had their reps reach out to retailers and Diamond, determined their wasn't going to be enough initial preorders for them to even break even on the deal, cancelled their plans and let the rights lapse. The second publisher (who he refrained from naming but dropped hint or two) was in negotiations for the rights when the pandemic hit, and the kerfuffle in the comic industry that caused led to them abandoning their efforts to secure the rights.
But the sense he gets from the people he knows at publishers is that there doesn't seem to be enough interest in the US market fo it to get a print run on the first volume big enough to break even based on what the rightsholders want to charge for the rights to the material, and orders on volumes after the first tend to drop in the US by a magnitude of 33-50% per volume (see DC cancelling several trade series like Spectre after 2 volumes because orders weren't enough), so the hope for volumes beyond the first to be viable was doubtful. And that if there is going to be a US market edition, it would likely have to be a massively expensive and crowd-funded edition for it to be even a break-even proposition for a US publisher, which is a non-starter for the rights holders, who would only accept deal if it involved distribution through the direct market and book trade, so there's an impasse on such a project coming to fruition in a manner that is financially viable for a US publisher and acceptable to the rights holders. But every time there's a nugget of interest that he hears about, he lets me know, usually in the form of I wouldn't pay inflated prices for the Blueberry books just yet, something is in the works. But it's been over 2 years since I heard anything of a nibble from him.
Again, this is all hearsay and speculation based on that hearsay, and my friend has not been as active in the comics field the past couple of years as he's become more involved in coaching soccer for his kids and running the travel team they are on in addition to his day job at the university, and so had relied more on his comic business' partners and employees to do a lot of the networking for their cons securing guests and such, so the info could also be very much out of date.
I keep hoping, as I would love to get some Blueberry volumes in an accessible format rather than trying to hunt down (and pay high prices for) out of print volumes. But understanding the way the rights are parsed out because of co-creators on some of the projects, I'm not holding my breath. Humanoids has a deal in place with Jodo, so they get a large library beyond just the Incal stuff (Metabarons, Technopriests, etc.) to broaden the appeal and make the deal worthwhile. Dark Horse's deal is a continuation of the deals they had to use the Moebius stuff they published in Cheval Noir and the Moebius GNs in the mid-90s, and they've got a lot of that stuff already prepped for print so their production costs to get it to market are a little lower, making it easier to get margins that work for them to make it a profitable venture. The Blueberry rights don't have either of those factors attached to them to make it work for a US publisher. If someone were to do an English language version, I'd put Titan (a UK not a US publisher) as the most likely candidate, as they have a track record of producing English translations of material for both the US and UK markets (such as the current Elric stuff produced for the French market) and have a system in place to make it viable for them, but going back to rumors and hearsay, they may have been the publisher trying to secure the rights when the pandemic hit and the breakdown of those negotiations may have left them cold on the project. But only the rights holders and potential publishing partners or licensees know for certain, and until such a time as a deal is made, we will likely never know for certain.
But now I need to go take a shower because I feel too much like RJ of BC and need to get the rumor mongering stank off.
-M
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Post by rich on Sept 29, 2024 2:40:57 GMT -5
Let's just hope things improve in the future.
As for the comment about Giraud's self written Blueberry being weaker... I can believe that, based on his other writing. Charlier was solid if not spectacular, and while Jodo may be a simply awful human being- absolute human detritus morally (dare to read about his abuse of animals and women you'll probably feel sick)- his stories elevated Giraud's work.
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Post by rich on Sept 29, 2024 2:46:38 GMT -5
One of my circle of comic kin, the organizer of several of our local cons, is a big Moebius fan. He's followed the Blueberry situation over the years, waiting for an edition to go to print in the US, and keeps telling me the scuttlebutt he hears about it, so this is all hearsay, but this is what I was told. The rights to the Blueberry stuff is separate from the solo Moebius stuff which is all separate from the stuff Moebius did with Jodo. You have to negotiate three separate deals if you want access to all of it. This is a different situation than it was in the 80s when Marvel/Epic produced the line of Moebius volumes. So currently Humanoids has the English language rights to the Moebius/Jodo material, Dark Horse to the solo Moebius stuff, and currently no one has the English language rights to the Blueberry stuff. There have been 2 publishers who have tried in the last 10 years, neither went to print. The first was about 10 years ago (not sure of the publisher, may have been Top Shelf/IDW). They had the rights, made an announcement at one of those Diamond retailer conferences of their plans, had their reps reach out to retailers and Diamond, determined their wasn't going to be enough initial preorders for them to even break even on the deal, cancelled their plans and let the rights lapse. The second publisher (who he refrained from naming but dropped hint or two) was in negotiations for the rights when the pandemic hit, and the kerfuffle in the comic industry that caused led to them abandoning their efforts to secure the rights. But the sense he gets from the people he knows at publishers is that there doesn't seem to be enough interest in the US market fo it to get a print run on the first volume big enough to break even based on what the rightsholders want to charge for the rights to the material, and orders on volumes after the first tend to drop in the US by a magnitude of 33-50% per volume (see DC cancelling several trade series like Spectre after 2 volumes because orders weren't enough), so the hope for volumes beyond the first to be viable was doubtful. And that if there is going to be a US market edition, it would likely have to be a massively expensive and crowd-funded edition for it to be even a break-even proposition for a US publisher, which is a non-starter for the rights holders, who would only accept deal if it involved distribution through the direct market and book trade, so there's an impasse on such a project coming to fruition in a manner that is financially viable for a US publisher and acceptable to the rights holders. But every time there's a nugget of interest that he hears about, he lets me know, usually in the form of I wouldn't pay inflated prices for the Blueberry books just yet, something is in the works. But it's been over 2 years since I heard anything of a nibble from him. Again, this is all hearsay and speculation based on that hearsay, and my friend has not been as active in the comics field the past couple of years as he's become more involved in coaching soccer for his kids and running the travel team they are on in addition to his day job at the university, and so had relied more on his comic business' partners and employees to do a lot of the networking for their cons securing guests and such, so the info could also be very much out of date. I keep hoping, as I would love to get some Blueberry volumes in an accessible format rather than trying to hunt down (and pay high prices for) out of print volumes. But understanding the way the rights are parsed out because of co-creators on some of the projects, I'm not holding my breath. Humanoids has a deal in place with Jodo, so they get a large library beyond just the Incal stuff (Metabarons, Technopriests, etc.) to broaden the appeal and make the deal worthwhile. Dark Horse's deal is a continuation of the deals they had to use the Moebius stuff they published in Cheval Noir and the Moebius GNs in the mid-90s, and they've got a lot of that stuff already prepped for print so their production costs to get it to market are a little lower, making it easier to get margins that work for them to make it a profitable venture. The Blueberry rights don't have either of those factors attached to them to make it work for a US publisher. If someone were to do an English language version, I'd put Titan (a UK not a US publisher) as the most likely candidate, as they have a track record of producing English translations of material for both the US and UK markets (such as the current Elric stuff produced for the French market) and have a system in place to make it viable for them, but going back to rumors and hearsay, they may have been the publisher trying to secure the rights when the pandemic hit and the breakdown of those negotiations may have left them cold on the project. But only the rights holders and potential publishing partners or licensees know for certain, and until such a time as a deal is made, we will likely never know for certain. But now I need to go take a shower because I feel too much like RJ of BC and need to get the rumor mongering stank off. -M Thanks for the info 👍🏼 I haven't seen as many interesting releases from Titan/Forbidden Planet as I used to... would be lovely for someone like them to step up! One of the various other EU rights holders could also do it, but their prices for the quality offered can be scary sometimes compared to what we're accustomed to in the English language market.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Sept 29, 2024 9:26:45 GMT -5
"Part 2: Books which still require translation: Blueberry (6 volumes) (1969 – 2007) La Piste des Navajos (1969) Mister Blueberry (1995) Ombres sur Tombstone (1997) Geronimo l'Apache (1999) OK Corral (2003) Dust (2005) Apaches (2007)" Well, we found some of our missing Blueberry stuff... As I understand it, Apaches is not an original work but the collection in one volume of all the flashback scenes from Mr. Blueberry on, all the way to Dust. They tell of Blueberry's arrival in the west (contradicting a little of what we saw in earlier books) and how he met Geronimo. So that's one less book to translate!
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Post by rich on Sept 29, 2024 10:09:22 GMT -5
"Part 2: Books which still require translation: Blueberry (6 volumes) (1969 – 2007) La Piste des Navajos (1969) Mister Blueberry (1995) Ombres sur Tombstone (1997) Geronimo l'Apache (1999) OK Corral (2003) Dust (2005) Apaches (2007)" Well, we found some of our missing Blueberry stuff... As I understand it, Apaches is not an original work but the collection in one volume of all the flashback scenes from Mr. Blueberry on, all the way to Dust. They tell of Blueberry's arrival in the west (contradicting a little of what we saw in earlier books) and how he met Geronimo. So that's one less book to translate! That explains why the writer of that webpage said six books needed translating, only to then write a list of 7! I'd been wondering what that was about.
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bran
Full Member
Posts: 224
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Post by bran on Nov 15, 2024 3:34:22 GMT -5
"Part 2: Books which still require translation: Blueberry (6 volumes) (1969 – 2007) La Piste des Navajos (1969) Mister Blueberry (1995) Ombres sur Tombstone (1997) Geronimo l'Apache (1999) OK Corral (2003) Dust (2005) Apaches (2007)" Well, we found some of our missing Blueberry stuff... As I understand it, Apaches is not an original work but the collection in one volume of all the flashback scenes from Mr. Blueberry on, all the way to Dust. They tell of Blueberry's arrival in the west (contradicting a little of what we saw in earlier books) and how he met Geronimo. So that's one less book to translate! It does, and it's a bit out of the character for Mike to jump off the top of a cliff like that. As much as Giraud superbly complemented his 2 principal writers/collaborators (Charlier and Jodo), and venturing a bit into scrips, writer he wasn't (and it shows). When he started working alone, in late 70s as Moebius, he was extremely wise not to use conventional writing method. He was fully aware of his shortcoming (you can't be awesome in everything), so he would just come up with the plot while drawing, often under influence of cannabis. Everyone loved it, and it was something never seen before. Usually, artists when they go solo, they try to overcompensate the lack of story/plot/characters with excessive graphics, and that's when everything falls apart. He avoided all that, by not writing scripts at all, and created something original along the way. I guess towards his later years the fame got him. Still, Mister Blueberry arc is not damaging, more like redundant. It ain't Matrix 2 level, more like Godfather 3 perhaps. It's weird that "On the Trail of Navajos" was not even translated, it concludes Fort Navajo story arc. What a mess that was, for Mike :-) I had a chance to see Epic/Marvel books - they edited out some of the intros (I don't remember if it was in the Ballad for the Corpse, Man Worth $ 500000, or both), as they probably thought it's just editor's recap (or cut/paste) from the last issue - IT AIN'T - it's absolutely awesome original intro written by Charlier himself! Those intros will get you hooked before you even move onto page 1. He was using those intros not just to inform new readers, but to remind existing readers of the threads from 2 or 3 issues ago, that will branch into threads that we follow. Whoever publishes Blueberry, if at all, should not take out intros.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Nov 15, 2024 6:35:02 GMT -5
It's weird that "On the Trail of Navajos" was not even translated, it concludes Fort Navajo story arc. What a mess that was, for Mike :-) They didn't translate it??? But... but... how can they leave the story unfinished? What were they thinking? How can we not learn what happens to Crowe, to Qanah, and to the war with the Navajos? It's like not showing the second half of The Return of the King! Fully agreed. The long text piece from Ballade pour un cercueil, which presents Blueberry as an actual historical figure, had me convinced that he had really existed. (Granted, I was only 10 at the time... but it was really cool!)
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