shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,860
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Post by shaxper on Oct 21, 2024 8:01:56 GMT -5
Now that is a hot take I've never heard before! Really? I feel like it used to get more praise back in the day. I remember it being held in the same esteem as Maus and Watchmen. I'd never seen that. I remember a lot of fans being turned off by the emphasis on dense text, as well as the later revelation that much of it was fiction (even in Cerebus' world). Wasn't that Church & State? Yes. I'm still a fervent supporter of the artistry, if not the artist and his message(s). |
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Post by commond on Oct 21, 2024 8:32:46 GMT -5
Really? I feel like it used to get more praise back in the day. I remember it being held in the same esteem as Maus and Watchmen. I'd never seen that. I remember a lot of fans being turned off by the emphasis on dense text, as well as the later revelation that much of it was fiction (even in Cerebus' world). Wasn't that Church & State? He began releasing the phonebooks in '86, which was roughly speaking the middle of Church and State. Jaka's Story was the first story he wrote with the graphic novel format in mind, and had the name of the arc on each cover. It was also the first story where he worked with Gerhard from the beginning. |
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Post by commond on Oct 21, 2024 8:37:19 GMT -5
Some people misunderstood Dave's t-shirt, though. It didn't have anything to do with the text pieces!  |
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Post by DubipR on Oct 21, 2024 9:13:24 GMT -5
1993.
For Karen Berger creating the Vertigo line alone. Taking the counter hero books and giving a little more free reign, like Marvel/Curtiss did with the magazines, it was a huge experiment that paid off. Giving the UK writers a huge platform to tell their books, give books a new life and created a whole new set of readers.
New publishers came into the trouble market but made fun books: Topps. Claypool Comics. Bongo.
Aside Vertigo being announced and starting, DC started up the much lamented Paradox Press and Milestone Media.
From Marvel: Cable monthly starts. Joe Kelly's Deadpool starts. Moon Knight #55.
Malibu Comics launches from Marvel.
Ghost World debuts in Eightball
Scott McCloud's "Understanding Comics" released
Batman 500- First AzBats (hey I liked it!)
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Post by rich on Oct 21, 2024 9:28:00 GMT -5
1993. For Karen Berger creating the Vertigo line alone. Taking the counter hero books and giving a little more free rein, like Marvel/Curtiss did with the magazines, it was a huge experiment that paid off. Giving the UK writers a huge platform to tell their books, give books a new life and created a whole new set of readers. New publishers came into the trouble market but made fun books: Topps. Claypool Comics. Bongo. Aside Vertigo being announced and starting, DC started up the much lamented Paradox Press and Milestone Media. From Marvel: Cable monthly starts. Joe Kelly's Deadpool starts. Moon Knight #55. Malibu Comics launches from Marvel. Ghost World debuts in Eightball Scott McCloud's "Understanding Comics" released Batman 500- First AzBats (hey I liked it!) I'd say that's definitely a better year for non-superhero comics. Superhero comics wise, 1992-1996 are the barren years, with limited highlights. |
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Post by DubipR on Oct 21, 2024 9:53:03 GMT -5
1993. For Karen Berger creating the Vertigo line alone. Taking the counter hero books and giving a little more free rein, like Marvel/Curtiss did with the magazines, it was a huge experiment that paid off. Giving the UK writers a huge platform to tell their books, give books a new life and created a whole new set of readers. New publishers came into the trouble market but made fun books: Topps. Claypool Comics. Bongo. Aside Vertigo being announced and starting, DC started up the much lamented Paradox Press and Milestone Media. From Marvel: Cable monthly starts. Joe Kelly's Deadpool starts. Moon Knight #55. Malibu Comics launches from Marvel. Ghost World debuts in Eightball Scott McCloud's "Understanding Comics" released Batman 500- First AzBats (hey I liked it!) I'd say that's definitely a better year for non-superhero comics. Superhero comics wise, 1992-1996 are the barren years, with limited highlights. Yes, there was a lot of BS hero wise, but there were some brilliant reads that came out. You just had to sifted through to strike gold. This was the time the new boom of small press and self published was starting to come. Chaos Comics (Lady Death) in 1994. El Capitan Comics (Stray Bullets) in 1995. Just good and fun stuff was happening. Then the bubble burst and comics tanked big time. |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Oct 21, 2024 10:14:59 GMT -5
If I can't say '86 (and I might not anyway), I think I could make a good case for '89.
At DC Sandman started up. You had many of the Vertigo precursors in Animal Man, Hellblazer and Doom Patrol. Veitch was following up Moore with a great run on Swamp Thing (that DC killed, damn them). They were finishing up V for Vendetta. The Question was still running strong and Grell was making Green Arrow a great book. The Bwa-ha era of Justice League hadn't quite run out of steam. DC started really bringing out trades of older and/or important works. There were a number of Vertigo precursor mini-series' like Skreemer. Paradox Press was still trucking along. I believe we saw the first Archive edition in '89.
I was still pretty pissed off at Marvel over X-Factor, so I wasn't reading much they put out. But they were doing Masterworks at the time. The Epic line was still there. They published Stray Toasters.
Eclipse, First, Now and Comico hadn't failed yet. Blackthorne was bringing out some good strip reprint magazines. Gladstone had some fabulous books coming out.
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,860
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Post by shaxper on Oct 21, 2024 13:44:29 GMT -5
I'd never seen that. I remember a lot of fans being turned off by the emphasis on dense text, as well as the later revelation that much of it was fiction (even in Cerebus' world). Wasn't that Church & State? He began releasing the phonebooks in '86, which was roughly speaking the middle of Church and State. Jaka's Story was the first story he wrote with the graphic novel format in mind, and had the name of the arc on each cover. It was also the first story where he worked with Gerhard from the beginning. Not to be difficult, but then wouldn't Church & State II beat Jakka's Story to all of these things? I have nothing against Jaka's Story, mind you. Couldn't stand it the first time through; adored it on the second read. I'm just not convinced it was first for any of this. |
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Post by rich on Oct 21, 2024 15:37:25 GMT -5
Here are some of my highlights from 1983: Miller's epic Daredevil run with Janson coming to a conclusion:  Stern and Romita's Amazing Spiderman:  The last of peak John Byrne on FF:  Berni Wrightson illustrating Frankenstein:  GIJoe:  Perez drawing The New Teen Titans:  Uncanny X-Men still kicking ass:  Launch of New Mutants:  Amazing Spiderman Annual 16:  To be fair, looking back through the year, it's really not a patch on 1986! haha. Maybe I should consider some other years. A lot of my favourite years came before my birth... Definitely nostalgia playing a part in that choice of mine, I admit. I have a soft spot for the entirety of the 80s, and then '97 to 2000 when comics got back on their feet, and I found a lot of interesting comics that weren't juvenile. Plus the core superhero titles returned to a more 80s vibe after the 90s excesses had worn thin. It was a relief to see the likes of Busiek and Waid writing top titles and doing the characters justice, with an array of good (and great) artists. |
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Post by commond on Oct 21, 2024 15:57:41 GMT -5
He began releasing the phonebooks in '86, which was roughly speaking the middle of Church and State. Jaka's Story was the first story he wrote with the graphic novel format in mind, and had the name of the arc on each cover. It was also the first story where he worked with Gerhard from the beginning. Not to be difficult, but then wouldn't Church & State II beat Jakka's Story to all of these things? I have nothing against Jaka's Story, mind you. Couldn't stand it the first time through; adored it on the second read. I'm just not convinced it was first for any of this. Church & State II begins with book four in Cerebus #81, which was cover dated December '85 and went on sale in early '86 (somewhere around Jan or Feb.) The first phonebook, High Society, came out in June of '86. IIRC, the original Church & State phonebook was simple titled Church & State not Church & State I. Gerhard started with issue #65, which meant he worked on the entirety of Church & State II, but with Jaka's Story he was heavily involved in the pre-production design work. The phonebooks were initially meant as a cheap way to keep Cerebus in print. Jaka's Story was the first time Dave thought about the collection in terms of a graphic novel. IIRC, he even wanted to publish it in a higher quality format but decided t was being too greedy. Interestingly, despite the fact that Jaka's Story was directly inspired by Love and Rockets, Dave and the Hernandez Brothers weren't big fans of each other's work. |
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Post by commond on Oct 21, 2024 15:59:45 GMT -5
1993. For Karen Berger creating the Vertigo line alone. Taking the counter hero books and giving a little more free reign, like Marvel/Curtiss did with the magazines, it was a huge experiment that paid off. Giving the UK writers a huge platform to tell their books, give books a new life and created a whole new set of readers. New publishers came into the trouble market but made fun books: Topps. Claypool Comics. Bongo. Aside Vertigo being announced and starting, DC started up the much lamented Paradox Press and Milestone Media. From Marvel: Cable monthly starts. Joe Kelly's Deadpool starts. Moon Knight #55. Malibu Comics launches from Marvel. Ghost World debuts in Eightball Scott McCloud's "Understanding Comics" released Batman 500- First AzBats (hey I liked it!) Didn't Joe Kelly start doing Deadpool in '97? |
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Post by DubipR on Oct 21, 2024 17:55:44 GMT -5
1993. For Karen Berger creating the Vertigo line alone. Taking the counter hero books and giving a little more free reign, like Marvel/Curtiss did with the magazines, it was a huge experiment that paid off. Giving the UK writers a huge platform to tell their books, give books a new life and created a whole new set of readers. New publishers came into the trouble market but made fun books: Topps. Claypool Comics. Bongo. Aside Vertigo being announced and starting, DC started up the much lamented Paradox Press and Milestone Media. From Marvel: Cable monthly starts. Joe Kelly's Deadpool starts. Moon Knight #55. Malibu Comics launches from Marvel. Ghost World debuts in Eightball Scott McCloud's "Understanding Comics" released Batman 500- First AzBats (hey I liked it!) Didn't Joe Kelly start doing Deadpool in '97? Oh yeah. Fabian's DP mini |
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Post by tonebone on Oct 23, 2024 8:46:23 GMT -5
I would also say 1983... and there's a lot of citations of work from Marvel for '83 here... but DC was really firing on all cylinders then...
Sword of the Atom
Amethyst
Arak
Batman and the Outsiders
Arion
Blackhawk
Legion of Super-Heroes was in full stride, as was New Teen Titans
DC Masterworks reprints showing off Frazetta and Wrightson
Ronin
Warlord was still going strong
Atari Force
All-Star Squadron
Nathaniel Dusk
a new Star Trek series, on the heels of Wrath of Khan
Vigilante
Blue Ribbon Digests were reprinting some great stuff, including some great DC humor comics
and you could still buy Swamp Thing, House of Mystery, Jonah Hex, Sgt Rock, and G.I. Combat.
Also, you had the formative years of First, PC, Eclipse and Capital, giving us:
Nexus
Badger
Warp
E-Man
Starslayer
Captain Victory
Rocketeer
Ms. Tree
Neil the Horse
Sable
DNAgents
A Distant Soil
Cerebus at its peak
Mars
American Flagg
And... Mad Magazine is in it's hey-day.
and the exciting-but-never-lived-up-to-the-promise return of the Red Circle heroes from Archie.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Oct 24, 2024 11:57:49 GMT -5
1986? Listen, I like Son of Ambush Bug as much as the next guy, but you have to weigh that against literally everything else published in 1986. *
Honestly, newsstand type comics seemed way more fun before I was born. This is probably my fault, somehow.
^. Not literally.
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