Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Aug 30, 2024 14:26:38 GMT -5
So I couldn't completely pass up the Taschen sale that I posted about down thread. I did not go as nuts as I would have liked. But I did buy the Frank Frazetta book and in order to bump it over the threshold for free shipping and added The Complete Little Nemo book as well. Great choices there! Little Nemo is amazing. So inventive and otherworldly and surreal. It's haunted by the spirit of early 20th century urban America, but with the weird eccentricities of old America never far away. It's practically Americana.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Aug 30, 2024 6:48:19 GMT -5
THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN 28 (reprinted in Marvel Tales 166) I love that cover. Such an inventive use of negative space by Ditko. It's very striking and must have stood out from the other comics on the spinner rack that month. Here's the original cover to savour… I have to say, I think the image actually looks better flipped on the cover of Marvel Tales #166, with Spidey on the left-hand side. Also, note that this is the first "Marvel Pop Art Productions" issue of Amazing Spider-Man… This rebranding went across most of Marvel's superhero line and was an attempt on Stan Lee's part to move Marvel away from any childlike connotations associated with the word "comics". By aligning Marvel with the then-fashionable pop art movement and the likes of Andy Warhol and Roy Lichtenstein, who were both revolutionising fine art and popular media at the time, Lee hoped to make Marvel seem like a much more serious and fashionable proposition. Apparently, reader reaction to the "pop art" rebranding experiment was extremely negative and, as a result, it only lasted four months. This issue introduces the menace of the Molten Man. A lab accident involving a liquid metal alloy transforms the man named Raxton, into a super strong bad guy with unbreakable metal skin. He’s an okay villain to fill up a few pages, and the action is good, especially the scenes with the characters fighting in the dark. He'll reappear a few times over the years, eventually with some changes to his powers. He'll also get a first name, and we'll find out that he's related to one of Peter's classmates (actually the same cast member who departs this very issue) I quite like the Molten Man as a character. In subsequent appearances he gets much more fleshed out and made into much more of a sympathetic figure. But here, in his first appearance, he's a pretty formidable foe for Spider-Man, even if he's decidedly C-list compared to the likes of the Green Goblin, the Vulture, Doctor Octopus etc. Molten Man's origin always makes me roll my eyes though: the way that the chemical formula gets spilled over him absolutely evenly, so that it can adhere to his body all over – even penetrating through his suit! – stretches credibility for me. I mean, I know that utterly unbelievable things happen in these comics all the time, but for some reason I find it particularly hard to suspend disbelief enough to swallow the Molten Man's origin. The real big deal in this issue is Peter Parker’s High School graduation. Flash and Peter are both awarded scholarships to Empire State University. Even though these two made some progress towards resolving their differences in the last couple issues, we'll soon get to see the classic rivalry play out again in a new way, in a new setting. Although one member of Peter’s Midtown High supporting cast will be sticking around, it’s time to say good bye to another. Liz Allan returns briefly for one more appearance a couple issues from now, but other than that, she doesn’t re-appear for quite some time. I'd kind of forgotten that Liz Allan disappears from the comic so early. I thought she hung around for most of the Lee/Ditko run. Obviously not. Also, there's a goof here where Stan calls her Liz Hilton, instead of Allan. Of course, no High School graduation could possibly be complete without a special guest-speaker like J. Jonah Jameson to provide a few words of wisdom! Did Aunt May really say "To know him must be to love him" Aunt May is such a bad judge of character – first Doctor Octopus, now J. Jonah Jameson! That woman is an idiot! Overall, this is an enjoyable comic, but it's not a patch on the last few issues. Ditko's art is really good – especially during the "lights-out" fight between Spidey and the Molten Man. EDIT: By the way, when were you planning to review Amazing Spider-Man Annual #2, jtrw2024? In terms of published order, it came out between ASM #27 and #28, but for chronological reading order, I always put it after ASM #28 (as the '80s Marvel Tales reprints do).
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Aug 29, 2024 12:42:35 GMT -5
Akhenaten: Egypt's False Prophet by Nicholas Reeves. As something of an armchair Egyptologist, I have long been fascinated by the 18th dynasty pharaoh Akhenaten. The farther of Tutankhamun, he is one of the most controversial and hotly debated figures in Egyptian history. Along with this great wife, the beautiful Nefertiti, Akhenaten rejected the conventional pantheon of Egyptian gods and instead imposed the worship of a single deity – the sun – on the populace. In doing so, he eradicated religious traditions that had lasted for thousands of years and diminished the role of the powerful priests in Egyptian court life, much to their annoyance. He also drastically changed the style of Egyptian art to incorporate a hitherto unheard-of freedom of expression, resulting in iconography that is characterised by strange, elongated faces and thin, paunchy bodies. He even moved Egypt's capital from Thebes to the new city of Akhetaten (modern-day Amarna). In short, he shook-up ancient Egyptian society like no one else. Nicholas Reeves paints a vivid portrait of the heretic pharaoh as an eccentric and tyrannical king, who cynically used monotheism to reassert Pharaonic authority. Unsurprisingly, this provoked civil unrest among the ordinary people of Egypt, which Akhenaten cruelly quelled with his army. The book also paints a rather uncomfortable picture of a lusty ruler, with a wide range of sexual predilections that were catered for by his harem of sex slaves. Reeves also proposes that Akhenaten likely took some of his daughters as wives or lovers in his attempts to father a male heir. As for Queen Nefertiti, Reeves suggests that rather than mysteriously disappearing from the historical record, she simply changed her name to Neferneferuaten, and, after Akhenaten's death, may have attempted to seize the throne by conspiring to marry a Hittite prince. He addresses the mystery of her missing mummy too, as well as speculating on the identity of the body in Tomb KV55 in the Valley of the Kings – which may well be Akhenaten's, though that is still hotly debated among Egyptologists. Reeves also details the shift back towards traditional Egyptian polytheism following Akhenaten's death, with successive rulers waging a propaganda war against his memory by dismantling his monuments, destroying his statues, and excluding his name from lists of Egyptian rulers. As a result, Akhenaten was all but lost to history until the late 19th-century discovery of his buried capital at Amarna. Overall, Akhenaten: Egypt's False Prophet is very readable, for the most part, though I found some of the chapters about the Egyptian priests a little dry. But there are plenty of black & white photos and illustrations to break up and enliven the prose. I've read two of Reeves' earlier books – one on the discovery of the tomb of Tutankhamun, and one on the history of the Valley of the Kings – and they were both similarly enjoyable. This is a must read if you're interested in this heretic king and the power politics within the royal court of ancient Egypt.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Aug 28, 2024 23:44:32 GMT -5
Unfortunately, Ditko taking over the plotting will prove to have a down side, as the book dips in quality significantly following #28. I know, I know, everyone loves Spidey lifting the big-ass machine off of him in #33 but that's pretty much the only highlight of the end of Ditko's run. Not only do we see most issues padded with boring, drawn-out fight sequences but the scenes set at ESU make me cringe. It's obvious neither Stan nor Steve have a frickin' clue what college is like, treating it like high school on a slightly larger scale. I tend to skip #30-38 altogether in my ASM readthroughs, preferring to jump right to the first Romita issue rather than torture myself... but maybe that's just me. Cei-U! I summon the big letdown! I think you're being a little bit harsh on those final 10 or 11 Ditko plotted issues, but I do know what you mean. I still find an awful lot to enjoy in them, personally, with maybe only the final couple of Ditko issues being less than stellar. But I do agree that the early Lee/Romita issues feel like a definite uptick in quality.
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Post by Confessor on Aug 28, 2024 11:30:15 GMT -5
I believe by the early 20s, Ditko was doing all the story and plotting with no input from Stan. They were not talking. Ditko also gave layout page breakdowns with dialog and notes to explain the stories to Stan. Although Ditko was probably doing the majority of the plotting, Stan still had plot input at this time. Ditko has stated that he was unhappy about having to do another Spidey-Torch team-up in #23, and he "protested it" by having them get in each other's way and work poorly together during the final fight with The Beetle. Yeah, as I've noted at least three times before in this thread, Lee was still able to have some input into the stories because he could pass along general plot suggestions for future issues to Ditko via Marvel's production manager Sol Brodsky (though Ditko often ignored them), and as the person writing the dialogue, he would sometimes change minor story elements or lessen some of Ditko's more extreme Randian objectivism.
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Post by Confessor on Aug 28, 2024 11:26:07 GMT -5
OK, finally caught up with the thread... THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN 26 - 27 (reprinted in Marvel Tales 164 - 165) . These are a couple of really good, intriguing covers by Steve Ditko. Both of them do a great job of making you want to find out what happens inside each comic. The cover of issue #26, with the mysterious Crime-Master gassing Spidey on the rooftop, as the Green Goblin hovers nearby, is especially good. “Bring Back My Goblin to Me!” I always felt like this strange, slightly nonsensical title was a reference to something else…like a song or something. For me, the song that it always brings to my mind is the traditional tune "My Bonnie", with its line: "Bring back my baby to me." I have no idea whether that's where Stan Lee got the idea for the title, but the song had been recorded in a rock 'n' roll style by Tony Sheridan & the Beatles in 1962, and it was re-released once Beatlemania had hit in America and peaked at number #26 on the U.S. charts in March 1964. However, I think it unlikely that Lee was aware of Sheridan and the Beatles' recording. But that's always the song I hear in my head whenever I see the title of ASM #27. Does anybody know if "Bring Back My Goblin to Me!" is alluding to anything in particular? As if the ongoing mystery of the Green Goblin’s identity isn’t enough, now we’ve got this mysterious Crime-Master character too. The Crime-Master is a very memorable character from this period of Spider-Man. I really like his clothing – the sharp suit and fedora – and that distinctive black and white face mask. At school Peter’s temper finally gets the better of him and he strikes out at Flash and a whole bunch of other kids. We see another side of Flash as he actually owns up to his part in instigating the fight rather than let Peter take full responsibility. This is close to the end of High School for these kids, and they’ll be graduating next issue, so it’s nice to see some things get settled, at least for a little bit. Peter finally snapping and lunging at Flash and the others is an example of the new, angrier Peter Parker that we've started to see in these recent Ditko-plotted issues. As I said before, an incident like Flash potentially getting his comeuppance from Peter fits right in with Ditko's Randian philosophies. Of course, Peter pulls back at the last minute, thanks to Liz's alarmed reaction breaking through his rage, but still…this seems like an angrier version of Peter than we've hitherto seen. Also, yeah…it's a nice touch to see Flash firstly being impressed by Peter taking the rap for the fist fight, and secondly, to see him admitting to the school principal that Peter wasn't really to blame. This isn't the first time that we've seen that beneath his bullish exterior Thompson has a conscience, and it foreshadows the maturation we'll see in the character later. Spider-man finds himself in a predicament that no other super-hero would ever find himself in. After the events of last issue, Peter is stuck without a costume. Peter is not sure what Aunt May did with the one she confiscated, (and I don’t think we ever find out). His solution here seems good at first, as Spider-man is a famous character, it’s easy enough for Peter to walk into a store and purchase a ready made costume. Unfortunately the quality of a store bought costume isn’t nearly as good as what a smart, resourceful teenager can make on his own. This new suit doesn’t fit right, but fortunately Spidey’s attempts to hold it together with his web-fluid keep his mask extra secure the few times the bad guys try to unmask him over the course of this story. Yeah, the lost costume(s) sub-plot is a fun one and, as you say, Peter having to web the mask of the store-bought replacement in place saves him from having his secret identity revealed by the bad guys at least twice. Peter has been suspicious of Frederick Foswell, ever since he re-appeared a few months back, seemingly reformed, working once more for the Daily Bugle. Spider-man isn't really much of a detective, and most of the conclusions he comes to are completely wrong. Most of the actual investigative work in this story comes from the police, working with the mysterious informant called Patch. I think Peter finding the hidden compartment in Foswell's wardrobe and deducing – incorrectly, as it turns out – that he is either the Crime-Master or the Goblin is understandable. Of course, he actually turns out to be Patch, the stool pigeon, but I think that Peter can be forgiven for getting this wrong. Another trip to Foswell's apartment yields a few clues which lead Spider-man to a gangland meeting near the docks where the Green Goblin manages to get the drop on him. Even though the first chapter finishes with a cliff-hanger and is continued the following month, it still ends with “The End”, like every other issue. I doubt that fooled anyone though! Even though earlier Spider-man issues contained continuing plot-threads which moved from one issue to the next, this is the first time an issue picks up right where the last one left off. It's neat to finally have a proper two-part adventure. This will become a much more common occurrence when Ditko leaves the book and John Romita takes over. The majority of the action in the second part of the story, takes place over the first 9 pages, and there sure is a lot of it. Not only does Spider-man have to contend with a whole bunch of underworld baddies (while still in chains, even), but there's also the Green Goblin and the Crime Master too. I don't know how Ditko manages to keep things straight, but the choreography is really great, and there's a lot of impressive shots of Spider-man doing his thing. The police show up and even though there are a lot more bad guys than good guys, things get wrapped up pretty well. Somehow during all this, Spider-man actually manages to remember to set up his automatic camera, and also keep his costume from coming apart again. Only the Green Goblin and the Crime Master manage to escape. Yeah, the fight sequence at the start of issue #27 is really well handled by Ditko. I especially like the panels where Spidey pursues the Crime-Master under the waterfront pier and into the sewer system; the artwork is very atmospheric in that sequence. Also, I want to mention that it's significant that the three brave Policemen get so much credit here and are shown to be such heroes. That is very much in line with Ditko's conservative, Randian objectivism. It's also likely significant that one of them is African-American. The writing in this sequence and its heavy-handed moralistic message really reminds me of some of Ditko's later, more extreme work, such as Mr. A or Killjoy. Still focused on Foswell, and convinced he is somehow mixed up in all of this, Spider-man confronts him at the Daily Bugle, unaware that the threat of the Crime Master is about to come to an end on a nearby rooftop across the street. The Crime Master’s identity is revealed at the end of the story after he's cornered and killed by the police. Of course the Crime Master is revealed as Nick "Lucky" Lewis which is someone neither the readers nor Spidey would ever have guessed, because this is the first time he's been mentioned! (What is it with the Goblin and gangsters named Lucky anyway)? In a gangster's line of work, if they haven't been killed or incarcerated, they are lucky! 😊 I kinda like the Crime-Master turning out to be no-one we've met before, but then again, it doesn't feel terribly satisfying. He goes out in a pretty anti-climactic way too, with his being gunned down by the police mostly off-panel. But then I guess that's the point! Ditko wanted more realism and less of the traditional superhero or adventure serial tropes. To hammer the point home, Spider-Man even thinks to himself that "in real life, when a villain is unmasked, he isn't always the butler, or the one you suspected", which very much reads like Ditko's heavy-handed scripting, rather than Lee's. While the mystery of the Green Goblin's identity will continue to remain a secret, this story does pay off in another way, by letting us in on Foswell's secret. The readers eventually learn that Foswell is working undercover, in disguise, to help the police, using the alias Patch, however Spidey himself never does learn his real secret. Spidey had suspected Foswell of being either the Green Goblin or the Crime-Master. While the Crime-Master might be a logical assumption, (having a similar look and motivation to Foswell’s previous alias, the Big Man), there’s no way anyone should think Foswell was the Goblin, considering the timing. The Green Goblin first appeared only a few issues after the Big Man was unmasked and sent to prison. While it was never actually confirmed when exactly Foswell was released or how long his sentence was, presumably it wasn’t too much earlier than when he re-appeared in issue 23 which would mean he was still behind bars during the Goblin's earliest appearances. You're right, of course, about it being pretty much impossible to realistically suspect Foswell of being the Green Goblin. But, I like that Ditko still teases the readers with that possibility near the end of ASM #27. Peter does manage to get some good pictures out of this whole adventure, and after going through a minor bit of trouble recovering his camera, decides to go about things a bit differently this time around, selling them to the Daily Bugle’s competitor the Daily Globe. He’ll be back to selling pics to Jameson next time, but The Daily Globe and its editor Barney Bushkin will eventually return years later. Once again, I suspect this is Ditko's Randian philosophies surfacing in the comic, along with his feeling rather under-compensated by Lee when it came to his credits on Amazing Spider-Man. Overall, these are a couple of excellent issues, full of intrigue, action and drama. The cat-and-mouse-game between the Green Goblin and the Crime-Master is hugely entertaining and the structure, pacing and story-beats in these issues are really spot on. My only slight criticism of this two-parter would be that there's an awkward jump on the first page of ASM #26, with the Goblin and the Crime-Master already knowing each other and having already revealed their secret identities to one another. It sort of feels like you've skipped an issue or something. But that aside, these are two really excellent comics.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Aug 28, 2024 8:28:39 GMT -5
I believe by the early 20s, Ditko was doing all the story and plotting with no input from Stan. They were not talking. Ditko also gave layout page breakdowns with dialog and notes to explain the stories to Stan. Issue #25 was the first issue that Ditko worked on after Stan stopped speaking to him. I think it was more likely a case of Ditko stopping talking to Lee! Although ASM #25 was the first issue officially credited to Ditko under the new plotting arrangement, I'm pretty sure issue #24 was plotted by Ditko as well -- certainly the GCD credits Ditko as the plotter. And of course, Steve had previously plotted issue #18 as well.
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Post by Confessor on Aug 27, 2024 22:28:53 GMT -5
It's been one month since I started this thread, but somehow it seems like it's been going on so much longer! Wow, it really does feel like longer than a month! Well done on producing such an interesting and thorough series of reviews.
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Post by Confessor on Aug 27, 2024 22:21:07 GMT -5
THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN 25 (reprinted in Marvel Tales 163) A caption on the splash page indicates Sturdy Steve Ditko “dreamed up the plot of this tantalizing tale”, which, of course, will eventually become common knowledge that this was the way it worked for most of these stories. I don’t usually go in to who really did what, but thought I’d point it out since they went out of their way to mention it. Ditko’s plotting contribution will become more formal and continue as part of the credits as of next issue. Steve Ditko also plotted issue #18 and, in all likelihood, #24 as well. As I noted earlier in the thread, from here on until he leaves with issue #38, Steve plotted, drew and inked each issue and then dropped the finished artwork off to Marvel's production manager Sol Brodsky to pass along to Lee, so he could write the dialogue. Amazing Spider-Man is very much Ditko's ship from here until he leaves Marvel. However, Lee was still able to have some input on the stories because he could pass along general plot suggestions for future issues via Brodsky (though Ditko often ignored them), and as the person writing the dialogue, he would sometimes change minor story elements or lessen some of Ditko's more extreme Randian objectivism. The means by which Jameson fights Spider-man is a robot invented by Smythe. Similar robots invented by Smythe and others will turn up time and again, usually referred to by their more threatening title Spider-Slayers. Seeing J. Jonah Jameson team-up with the brilliant, but eccentric (and, as it later turns out) utterly mad Professor Smythe is a joy – as is seeing Jameson's gloating face mocking Spider-Man from the robot's face screen. Peter's maturity, or lack of, is on full display in these early scenes when he actually goads Jameson into taking Smythe up on his offer to use the robot to capture Spider-man. Peter hopes that it will give him the opportunity to snap some exclusive photos and humiliate Jameson at the same time. Peter generally seems angrier and more intent on Jameson getting his comeuppance in this issue, which is definitely Ditko's doing and fits right into his Randian philosophies. As does Peter's foolhardiness coming back to bite him on the a*s later. That said, the scene where Peter's egging Jameson on to utilise the robot, while he holds Betty back behind him, is actually quite funny. Still, I can't imagine Stan coming up with that scene. The robot is kind of corny looking, even by silver-age standards… I agree, it is rather silly looking. The Mark II model that will appear in ASM #58 looks much more menacing. I tend to agree with tarkintino that depicting believable (or at least cool looking) tech was not Ditko's strong suit in the way that it was for Jack Kirby. Despite the seemingly hopeless odds though, Spidey manages to overcome this latest threat using his brains, but since this isn't your regular super-hero comic, that doesn't mean that everything is going to get wrapped-up nicely by the last page. Peter opening the robot's chest plate and disabling it, only to then create a hastily improvised Spider-Man puppet out of his costume and a few web lines, just in time for Jameson and Smyth to arrive, is a really lame conclusion to the encounter. The ensuing loss of his costume, which will run over into the next couple of issues, is a fun twist though. The most important thing in this issue, though, is the (almost) first appearance of Mary Jane Watson. Her face is never seen by the readers, but from what we can see of her shapely figure, not to mention Betty's, Liz's and even Flash's reactions, this little teaser is enough ... for now! That panel with the flower blocking Mary Jane's face always makes me chuckle. It's so deliberately unsubtle! The whole running gag about Aunt May trying to set Peter up with her friend's niece, who he naturally assumes will be an ugly beast, is delicious precisely because the joke is that the reader – along with Liz, Betty and Flash – know that MJ is a legitimately stunning babe long before Peter realises it. I think it's fascinating to speculate on what Ditko (and Lee) had in mind for Mary Jane before her Lee/Romita makeover. Of course, Ditko clearly intended for her to be a stunning beauty (as Liz and Betty's reactions prove), but personally I think he was looking to introduce a more mature, glamorous love interest for Peter. Unlike Romita's Mary Jane, Ditko's version is definitely not a happening, swinging '60s chick...just look at the conservative clothing and headscarf she's wearing! Admittedly, the headscarf was likely added just to conceal her appearance, but nevertheless, I think Ditko was intentionally dressing her like a more sophisticated and glamorous woman, a la Grace Kelly, than the free spirited and groovy Ann-Margret influenced character we eventually got. On a related point, some months ago over in the Stan Lee thread, kirby101 made mention of speculation that he'd seen that Mary Jane was intended to be Princess Python, who Ditko had added to the Circus of Crime Masters of Menace in issue #22. There are some vague clues about this in the stories, and in the way Princess Python dressed similarly to Mary Jane when in her civilian clothing, but nothing concrete, of course. It's fun to speculate on though. Overall, this is a fun issue. There are some nice character moments between Peter and the supporting cast, culminating in the scene where the gang are running after him, followed by the robot. The soap opera elements here are really interesting – far more so than the actual main plot involving Smyth's robot IMO. And of course, there's the first appearance of Mary Jane Watson (sort of).
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Post by Confessor on Aug 27, 2024 21:25:47 GMT -5
Saw Master of Kung Fu already mentioned in the thread but I think this was my favorite fight of the original series from issue 30, Shang-Chi vs Razorfist. I've been doing martial arts my whole life and still have no idea what that kick Shang does here is about. But it still looks cool. My other thought is, just how does Razorfist manage to eat his dinner? Does he have a giant fork he swaps out for one of the long razors? Great pick! I used to have that issue and it is indeed a great fight.
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Post by Confessor on Aug 27, 2024 21:09:35 GMT -5
I remember really enjoying untold tales as it was coming out, even though I hadn't read any of these at that point. They kind of fit into the margins of alot of these early stories, don't they? Busiek's Untold Tales of Spider-Man was fantastic! It was such a breath of fresh air coming, as it did, right smack in the middle of the convoluted, sprawling '90s Clone Saga mess.
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Post by Confessor on Aug 27, 2024 21:08:10 GMT -5
Its not thinking Romita lied, and I would never suggest that of Romita (of all people). He could have misremembered the succession of events. ((emphasis mine))Personally, I find that a little hard to believe given Romita's proximity to Lee and the Marvel Bullpen, plus the fact that he was only remembering or repeating information from the year before. In the 1966 fanzine article, Romita cites the likes of Sol Brodsky, Marie Severin, Roy Thomas, and Stan Lee himself as people who corroborated this and told him that having the Goblin turn out to be Norman Osborn had been Ditko's intention all along. It's important to note, however, that Romita never says he heard this from Ditko's own lips, but nonetheless, enough other people in the Marvel bullpen -- including Stan -- had apparently told him that this had always been Ditko's intention to make it pretty compelling evidence. Obviously, as the guy who ultimately had to draw the dramatic unmasking of the Green Goblin in ASM #39, after Ditko walked out, I'm sure Stan would've been very clear about the direction Ditko had intended the story to go in. This is what Romita actually says in the fanzine: "By the way, the choice of Norman Osborn as the Green Goblin was Ditko's. Lee was going to have GG revealed to be Ned Leeds, but Ditko was too fond of Ned so he drew the mags so that Osborn HAD to be the Green Goblin."That said, in issue #104 of Alter Ego's 2011 article, STAN LEE’s Amazing Marvel Interview! Two Extraordinary 2005 Audio Sessions With The Man Who Spearheaded Marvel Comics, the Lee transcript laid out his well-covered version of the story: He is corrected about switching the father and son's names, but Lee's recollection is largely the same as its been for quite some time. Even if one accepts the idea that Ditko wanted Norman Osborn to end up as the Goblin, that does not graft the dramatic, night and day development of the character--essentially the defining shaping & representation of the character--to Ditko, as if he would have made the same creative choices in every Goblin/Osborn appearance occurring between TASM #39 - #122 (or 1968's The Spectacular Spider-Man magazine #2). As mentioned before, Ditko was not that kind of writer, and it is highly doubtful he would somehow get there with the same perspective, emotional approaches to character development as Lee, et al. Few would say (as evidence) that he must have laid down the heart of that which would unfold in TASM #39 - 40, as it was indicative of his kind of writing, which readers would see in his post-Marvel work. That last part is key in any comparison / contrast of the creative forces at work behind any endeavor, since Ditko's post-Marvel output gave no indication that he--if he remained--would have infused and nurtured what was to come in TASM, whether dealing with Osborn or any other arcs. Yeah, I knew what Stan has said decades after the fact, and thanks for posting the whole quote – it's very interesting. But like I say, I think this could very easily be down to Stan's faulty memory and he's maybe thinking of the Crime-Master? Hell, Lee even admits that his memory is terrible in that quote. Also, just to be clear, I'm not saying in any way that the brilliant character development of the Green Goblin/Norman Osborn into such a menacing archenemy under Stan and John Romita had anything to do with Ditko. Obviously, had Steve stayed on the book things would have turned out very differently plot-wise and character development-wise. I'm not trying to take anything away from Lee and/or Romita here. Ultimately, we can't prove anything completely one way or the other, so I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this. But for my money, Ditko's comments (backed up by Romita's contemporary recollections) have the ring of truth to them. And you know me: I'm certainly not a Stan-basher in any way. I firmly believe that these comics were a fusion of both Ditko and Lee's talents, even when Ditko was plotting all the stories from issue #24 until he left after issue #38, though obviously Stan's influence on those final fifteen issues was very much diminished.
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Post by Confessor on Aug 27, 2024 15:23:58 GMT -5
That's a shame. I can't say I ever really interacted with him that much (if at all), but he was definitely a name I was used to seeing around the community.
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Post by Confessor on Aug 27, 2024 15:19:45 GMT -5
...but thread necrophilia is frowned upon Such a prude!
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Post by Confessor on Aug 27, 2024 12:04:27 GMT -5
More playing catch-up... THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN 24 (reprinted in Marvel Tales 162) This story doesn't really involve any physical threat for Spidey to deal with, other than some regular crooks, but there's a whole lot of other stuff going on. Even when he doesn't have actual super-villains to worry about, there's still the usual money problems for Peter to deal with, not to mention his troubled relationship with Betty Brant. Even though Peter earns money by taking pictures of himself as Spider-man, he's always been inconsistent when it comes to remembering to set up his automatic camera. In this issue he actually does remember to set it up to take pictures, but finds he can't use them when Bugle reporter Foswell shows up on the scene and would no doubt question how Peter could have got these shots when he was nowhere to be seen. That's the old Parker luck for you! The real threat this issue comes from Peter's own insecurities. Even Aunt May notices something is wrong, and can't help but show her usual concern. This isn’t the first time Spider-man has doubted his sanity and sought psychiatric help. It’s been less than a year since Amazing Spider-man 13 came out, when Spidey thought he was committing crimes in his sleep, only to learn that it was a trick by Mysterio. In this issue Spidey is seeing ghostly images of his old foes, but once again, who is really behind it? Yup! It’s Mysterio, this time posing as a psychiatrist named Dr. Ludwig Rinehart. Mysterio isn’t shown in his usual costume at all this issue, but Ditko draws his unmasked face so distinctively, who else could it be? This is a really unusual storyline for a mainstream, mid-60s comic. I mean, Spidey doesn't get to fight any physical battles here at all – it's all mental struggles within his head (courtesy of Mysterio). And then we never once see the villain in his proper costume either. It makes for a nice change of pace and it's rather adventurous too, but I have to wonder how it went down with your average reader of Amazing Spider-Man at the time. Also, he may or may not have a dog which he walks without holding the leash, and then forgets about. It could be someone else's dog, but this plot point has never been followed-up on, so we'll never know. I've always kinda thought that this was one of Mysterio's special effect, hologram-induced "hallucinations" – like the cat and bat we saw near Spidey earlier. I mean, the dog looks like it's walking itself! The lead isn't trailing along the pavement – it's sticking up in the air above the dog, like an invisible person is walking it. Though lords knows why Mysterio would plant this special effect near Flash Thompson. Maybe it was just one of the hologram "hallucinations" meant for Spidey and Flash just happened to pass by it at that moment? I'm sure Spidey would have been okay even without Flash's help, since it was actually Jameson who burst in first and exposed Rinehart as a fraud, but it's nice to see Flash get in on the action for once, without needing to be rescued. It's a nice, dramatically ironic touch to have J. Jonah Jameson saving Spidey's bacon like this. The sequence with Dr. Rinehart's upside down office was really well done, and an explanation of how he pulled it off was already provided during the chase sequence, but it's cool that Ditko took the time to provide an actual diagram here as well. Yeah, the upside-down rooms look great. You can tell that Ditko is really enjoying himself here. There was one thing I noticed when re-reading this story, that I don't think I ever picked up on before (but I'm sure others probably did). There's a scene in this story with Peter using his Spider-beam to distract Flash who is following him when he thinks Pete is going to meet Liz. After Peter manages to lose Flash, the art shows the signal device still sitting on a rooftop, but a thought balloon a few panels later indicates Spidey went back to retrieve it. This of course conflicts with next issue which starts off with a whole scene devoted to Peter going back to get it. I guess this is one of those things that happens when the creators aren't talking to each other.Absolutely! This is an obvious breakdown in communication between Stan and Steve. Clearly this is Stan's mistake though, as he's writing the dialogue and thought balloons. Steve knows that he's gonna have Peter go back to pick up his Spider-signal next time. Overall, this is a pretty unusual Spider-Man comic but, I have to be honest, it's not one that I particularly like. It's a very original idea and it certainly marks Mysterio out as something a little different, but I've always found it a tad boring. I've also never been a fan of seeing Spider-Man in such psychological torment either. Although Ditko wouldn't "officially" start plotting ASM full-time until next issue, this really does feel very much like a Ditko-style storyline. Stan's goof with Peter saying that he has collected his Spider-signal, when Ditko is clearly intending to have him do that next issue, is a bit of a dead giveaway. I also notice that the Grand Comics Database lists Ditko as having plotted this issue and they are usually extremely reliable on such matters. So, I suspect that there is some form of evidence to prove that Stan didn't come up with this storyline out there somewhere.
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