|
Post by Roquefort Raider on Jun 1, 2017 17:16:08 GMT -5
This, I believe, is an example why many people distrust the left. A Swiss judge fined someone for hitting the Facebook "like" button on comments deemed defamatory. (The comments were targeting an animal protection group, comparing them to Nazis. Typical internet verbal inflation). Not permissible, said the judge. By liking the comments you take part in defamation, no less. This trend, if left unchecked, heralds the death of our freedom of expression. I have been very upset by several freedom-killing rulings in the past, mostly dealing with holocaust deniers. Those idiots must be challenged and ridiculed for their untenable beliefs; however, to silence them under threat of indictment is just plain wrong. That's not how you teach people to measure their words, but it is certainly the way to force people to only speak officially-approved words. There is no such thing as a partial freedom of speech. We should all have the legal right to say what we think, and then others should have the right to tell us that our words mark us as a $#%, a &@# or a ˜†‡•, or to get out of their house. But no fine or jail sentence should come into the equation. And most of the people on "The Left" completely agree with you.
That's what frustrates me the most about this kind of situation. This type of freedom-killing decision is absolutely not what socialism is about, but is nevertheless used as a strawman argument against the left.
|
|
|
Post by Hoosier X on Jun 1, 2017 17:47:16 GMT -5
And most of the people on "The Left" completely agree with you.
That's what frustrates me the most about this kind of situation. This type of freedom-killing decision is absolutely not what socialism is about, but is nevertheless used as a strawman argument against the left. From my experience with conservatives, the only arguments against "The Left" that aren't straw-man arguments are some other logical fallacy, most frequently an ad hominem. But judging by how irate they get when you use the term "logical fallacy," it's not politically correct to point this out.
|
|
|
Post by Hoosier X on Jun 1, 2017 17:55:17 GMT -5
It's not politically correct to talk about "political correctness" when a comedy tour is canceled because a lot of people were offended by a Leftie. Kathy Griffin Comedy Tour Shows Canceled Remind me how many Ted Nugent shows were canceled when he made numerous provocative comments about Obama and Clinton.
|
|
|
Post by Ish Kabbible on Jun 1, 2017 19:43:29 GMT -5
Since an actor, John Wilkes Booth, actually assassinated a Republican President, everyone in the entertainment field should get a free pass.Is that the defense?
|
|
|
Post by Hoosier X on Jun 2, 2017 0:16:20 GMT -5
Since an actor, John Wilkes Booth, actually assassinated a Republican President, everyone in the entertainment field should get a free pass.Is that the defense? I forgot to mention the argumentum ad absurdum.
|
|
|
Post by Ish Kabbible on Jun 2, 2017 3:29:45 GMT -5
Since an actor, John Wilkes Booth, actually assassinated a Republican President, everyone in the entertainment field should get a free pass.Is that the defense? I forgot to mention the argumentum ad absurdum. That comes into play when the "two wrongs make a right" theorem is used or whatever reasoning your applying for businesses not wanting to be associated with Kathy Griffin after her stunt. I think that's within their right to make that decision. You got the right to buy thousands of dollars worth of her albums to support her.
|
|
|
Post by Hoosier X on Jun 2, 2017 8:41:12 GMT -5
I forgot to mention the argumentum ad absurdum. That comes into play when the "two wrongs make a right" theorem is used or whatever reasoning your applying for businesses not wanting to be associated with Kathy Griffin after her stunt. I think that's within their right to make that decision. You got the right to buy thousands of dollars worth of her albums to support her. I'm just pointing out that "The Left" does not have a monopoly on political correctness. Far from it. "Political correctness" is a major feature of conservatism as well. It's just not politically correct to call it "political correctness" when conservatives are offended. I said absolutely nothing about the right of a business organization to act all shocked when a controversial entertainer does something controversial. So your response is one of those straw men I was talking about.
|
|
|
Post by Slam_Bradley on Jun 2, 2017 9:41:32 GMT -5
That comes into play when the "two wrongs make a right" theorem is used or whatever reasoning your applying for businesses not wanting to be associated with Kathy Griffin after her stunt. I think that's within their right to make that decision. You got the right to buy thousands of dollars worth of her albums to support her. I'm just pointing out that "The Left" does not have a monopoly on political correctness. Far from it. "Political correctness" is a major feature of conservatism as well. It's just not politically correct to call it "political correctness" when conservatives are offended. I said absolutely nothing about the right of a business organization to act all shocked when a controversial entertainer does something controversial. So your response is one of those straw men I was talking about. I'll absolutely agree with you that "political correctness" is a meaningless term, in that 99% of the time it means "something I don't agree with or want to hear." And you're correct that conservatives are every bit the precious little snowflakes they want to accuse everyone of being. But Kathy Whatserbucket deserves every bit of blowback over her, admittedly protected, use of Free Speech. We spent eight years with right-wing mouth-breathers hanging the President in effigy, spewing every sort of vile and racist garbage their tiny little brains could come up with and they were wrong to do it. Griffith doesn't get a pass when she goes over the line. You don't get to piss and moan about Ted Nugent and then give a pass to someone on the other team who does the same thing. Be better than them.
|
|
|
Post by thwhtguardian on Jun 2, 2017 12:01:42 GMT -5
I'm just pointing out that "The Left" does not have a monopoly on political correctness. Far from it. "Political correctness" is a major feature of conservatism as well. It's just not politically correct to call it "political correctness" when conservatives are offended. I said absolutely nothing about the right of a business organization to act all shocked when a controversial entertainer does something controversial. So your response is one of those straw men I was talking about. I'll absolutely agree with you that "political correctness" is a meaningless term, in that 99% of the time it means "something I don't agree with or want to hear." And you're correct that conservatives are every bit the precious little snowflakes they want to accuse everyone of being. But Kathy Whatserbucket deserves every bit of blowback over her, admittedly protected, use of Free Speech. We spent eight years with right-wing mouth-breathers hanging the President in effigy, spewing every sort of vile and racist garbage their tiny little brains could come up with and they were wrong to do it. Griffith doesn't get a pass when she goes over the line. You don't get to piss and moan about Ted Nugent and then give a pass to someone on the other team who does the same thing. Be better than them. I'm not bothered by the blowback myself, and I doubt Griffin's career will suffer that much for it in the long term. Being controversial is her shtick so I'm sure she's always prepared to find that she's gone too far. That said what I do find tiresome are the reactions from right-wing pundits and the President himself. As you mentioned, when Obama was elected there were effigies everywhere(even in my little town square in the very liberal Massachusetts) and all kinds of right wing entertainers were talking about violence(not just Nugent) and these people were just "expressing their first amendment rights" according to the people on Fox News and Trump. The fact that they can't even muster a lame ass excuse for why this is different this time just kills me.
|
|
|
Post by Slam_Bradley on Jun 2, 2017 12:35:36 GMT -5
I'll absolutely agree with you that "political correctness" is a meaningless term, in that 99% of the time it means "something I don't agree with or want to hear." And you're correct that conservatives are every bit the precious little snowflakes they want to accuse everyone of being. But Kathy Whatserbucket deserves every bit of blowback over her, admittedly protected, use of Free Speech. We spent eight years with right-wing mouth-breathers hanging the President in effigy, spewing every sort of vile and racist garbage their tiny little brains could come up with and they were wrong to do it. Griffith doesn't get a pass when she goes over the line. You don't get to piss and moan about Ted Nugent and then give a pass to someone on the other team who does the same thing. Be better than them. I'm not bothered by the blowback myself, and I doubt Griffin's career will suffer that much for it in the long term. Being controversial is her shtick so I'm sure she's always prepared to find that she's gone too far. That said what I do find tiresome are the reactions from right-wing pundits and the President himself. As you mentioned, when Obama was elected there were effigies everywhere(even in my little town square in the very liberal Massachusetts) and all kinds of right wing entertainers were talking about violence(not just Nugent) and these people were just "expressing their first amendment rights" according to the people on Fox News and Trump. The fact that they can't even muster a lame ass excuse for why this is different this time just kills me. The right is filled with incredible hypocrites. The Charlatan-in-Chief and Faux News being right at the head of the line. They just don't care that they're hypocrites or they aren't cognitively developed enough to recognize their hypocrisy. Calling them on their hypocrisy may be cathartic, but it's not useful because they're utterly incapable of seeing it.
|
|
|
Post by Hoosier X on Jun 2, 2017 13:11:07 GMT -5
I'm just pointing out that "The Left" does not have a monopoly on political correctness. Far from it. "Political correctness" is a major feature of conservatism as well. It's just not politically correct to call it "political correctness" when conservatives are offended. I said absolutely nothing about the right of a business organization to act all shocked when a controversial entertainer does something controversial. So your response is one of those straw men I was talking about. I'll absolutely agree with you that "political correctness" is a meaningless term, in that 99% of the time it means "something I don't agree with or want to hear." And you're correct that conservatives are every bit the precious little snowflakes they want to accuse everyone of being. But Kathy Whatserbucket deserves every bit of blowback over her, admittedly protected, use of Free Speech. We spent eight years with right-wing mouth-breathers hanging the President in effigy, spewing every sort of vile and racist garbage their tiny little brains could come up with and they were wrong to do it. Griffith doesn't get a pass when she goes over the line. You don't get to piss and moan about Ted Nugent and then give a pass to someone on the other team who does the same thing. Be better than them. I NEVER ONCE said anything even remotely suggesting that Ted Nugent shouldn't be allowed to speak. Yeah, I criticized him for his awful awful statements. Free Speech rights DO apply to people who disagree with conservatives, after all. I also NEVER ONCE said that people shouldn't be protesting Kathy Griffin if they think she went too far. (I certainly think she went too far if she didn't want any backlash; she of all people should know about the blatant hypocrisy of the Right when it comes to free speech and political correctness). I haven't even said the promoters shouldn't have canceled the shows. I'm just pointing out A LOT of hypocrisy over so-called political correctness.
|
|
|
Post by Rob Allen on Jun 2, 2017 17:24:19 GMT -5
Here's something of interest to politically-minded people who like words & pictures together: "The Graphic History Collective has launched a new activist art project: Remember | Resist | Redraw: a Radical History Poster Project. The Graphic History Collective is collaborating with a number of artists and writers to create an ongoing poster series that will offer alternative perspectives on well-known historical events, and will highlight the histories of Indigenous peoples, women, workers, and other oppressed people who are often overlooked or marginalized in mainstream historical accounts. Starting January 2017, we are publishing posters for free on our website. Like our previous books about working-class history (May Day and Drawn to Change), each poster will be published with a formal essay by an artist or activist for context. We want to share these posters widely. We are also planning to organize exhibits and a traveling pop-up people’s history installation. Stay tuned for more information. In order to change the world, we need to be able to imagine alternative ways of living and organizing to bring about social change. We combine art and history because it helps us fuel our radical imaginations and dream of what might be. We hope you will join us on our journey to use activist art to remember, resist and redraw our world with an eye to changing it for the better."
|
|
|
Post by Roquefort Raider on Jun 3, 2017 8:29:46 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Roquefort Raider on Jun 4, 2017 19:28:30 GMT -5
Trump :
30,000 dead each year because of your gun laws... so what's your point?
Trump is a disgrace.
Congrats to the brave London policemen who stopped the rampage in under eight minutes, and to all the English citizens who refuse to be cowed by terrorists or to be coaxed into xenophobia by demagogues.
|
|
|
Post by Ish Kabbible on Jun 4, 2017 20:05:24 GMT -5
Trump : 30,000 dead each year because of your gun laws... so what's your point? Trump is a disgrace. Congrats to the brave London policemen who stopped the rampage in under eight minutes, and to all the English citizens who refuse to be cowed by terrorists or to be coaxed into xenophobia by demagogues. My heart goes out to the UK which has absorbed 3 terror attacks within the last 100 days and broke up 5 other credible attempts as well. Stand fast, stand strong and don't back down As for that 30,000 gun death number-you are including roughly 20,000 that were suicides. As far as the remainder, the majority are gun deaths which the killer and victim knew each other. Death by Terror Attack: random, in a crowded public place, against total innocents, is an act of war and a completely different crime
|
|