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Post by Nowhere Man on May 19, 2015 21:02:01 GMT -5
The main reason for revealing that they're not Magneto's parents seems to be, according to Tom Brevoort, that this back-story tethers them to WWII. This is yet another reason why slavishly setting these comic universes in the here and now is a mistake. Would anyone really care if Marvel and DC went the route of Batman: The Animated Series? These character's aren't fashion trends; they're timeless icons. It's so clear to me that giving each mythos its own personality would make things far more interesting and open up limitless possibilities. I once read an interview where Joe Quesada state that he has no interest in history (as in world history, not comics) so I wonder if this philosophy has trickled down and become an even bigger problem than it was in the past.
This sort of thing also seems to go against the current mantra of "continuity shouldn't trump a good story." Well, this is exactly what's happening with the separation of Magneto and his children. What do they fear will happen? Fans will leave in droves if they don't see characters on iphone's every other page?
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2015 21:22:29 GMT -5
The main reason for revealing that they're not Magneto's parents seems to be, according to Tom Brevoort, that this back-story tethers them to WWII. This is yet another reason why slavishly setting these comic universes in the here and now is a mistake. Would anyone really care if Marvel and DC went the route of Batman: The Animated Series? These character's aren't fashion trends; they're timeless icons. It's so clear to me that giving each mythos its own personality would make things far more interesting and open up limitless possibilities. I once read an interview where Joe Quesada state that he has no interest in history (as in world history, not comics) so I wonder if this philosophy has trickled down and become an even bigger problem than it was in the past. This sort of thing also seems to go against the current mantra of "continuity shouldn't trump a good story." Well, this is exactly what's happening with the separation of Magneto and his children. What do they fear will happen? Fans will leave in droves if they don't see characters on iphone's every other page? We'll if they were Magneto's parents it would be a whole different kettle of fish as they are brother and sister... But as to your point, contemporary readers seem to want to relate to the stuff they read and have it be contemporary. For every period piece that does well, there are hundreds if not thousands that fall flat with audiences, and many writers don't have the breadth of background knowledge to write a period piece well as they are used to tropes that rely on contemporary gadgets, themes, attitudes, etc. to make the stories work. Calling something dated is a kiss of death for a modern audience, so yes their very real fear is that if stories do not feel contemporary, they will get labelled as dated and die on the vine with audiences. We live in an era of comics where only "important" titles and series sell particularly well within mainstream super-hero comics. Readers have spoken with their wallets as to what will and will not sell, and editors, marketers and suits are very aware of that. They have to answer to corporate higher up who have to answer to shareholders, so if "timeless" feel makes a book seem unimportant because it is not in the now and it potentially adversely affects sales, or if a story concept gets labelled "dated" and falls afoul of the consumer base, then yes it will be discarded. They do not care about what sold 10 years ago or what worked 10 years ago, they do not care about sales 5 years from now, they care about what needs to be done to maintain or maximize sales in the now and the near future to keep everyone happy and employed. That is the reality of the comic book industry currently (and has been for longer than most care to admit). Sacred cows will be slaughtered at the altar of need, that's not going to change this year, next year, or any time in the forseeable future, and has been the status quo for a long time. Again perspective on retcons is often tinted by which side of the retcon you are on, were you there before or after the change. Quite likely 5 years from now someone will act with surprise at the very idea that Pietro and Wanda were ever related to Magneto and think, god that was a stupid idea, good thing Marvel got rid of that....just as fans who came after it was revealed they were his children reacted and thought, wow how could it ever have been any different... The only constant is change. And the impetus of meeting sales goals. Is it the right way to go about things? Most likely not. Second guessing the audience never produces the best stories, but when the options are get enough sales or get another job, you're not looking for the best story you are looking for a certain sales goal. -M |
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Post by Nowhere Man on May 20, 2015 6:54:22 GMT -5
First off, oops. My bad.
I understand that we're dealing with a fan-base that's obsessed with "relevance" but it's a tad short sighted, don't you think? The more you try to capture the world as it is this very minute, the quicker said comics are going to become "dated." Oh, sweet irony.
As far as Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver go, I just can't see how this change is a positive on any level. By its very nature it subtracts from the richness of the characters backgrounds, not to mention Magneto's. What on earth are they going to do with the Punisher? He couldn't have fought in Vietnam at this point, so is he now a Gulf War vet?
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Post by The Captain on May 20, 2015 8:48:52 GMT -5
The reason that Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch aren't Magneto's children has nothing to do with WWII and everything to do with Marvel not owning the movie rights to Magneto and the rest of the X-Universe characters (other than Pietro and Wanda). Hence, when they shuffle Mags and the rest of his mutant friends off to their own universe because of Secret Wars, they can leave Pietro and Wanda in the "real" Marvel Universe and continue to use them in whatever capacity they want without ever having to bring up the name "Magneto" in relation to them again.
However, it's apparently OK that Polaris is still his kid. Funny how Breevort isn't worried about her being tied to WWII, isn't it?
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Post by DE Sinclair on May 20, 2015 9:54:44 GMT -5
If the issue ever was Magneto's ties to WW II (which I agree with Richard that the movie rights are a more likely explanation), it would be just stupid. Just because Magneto has ties to WW II and concentration camps doesn't mean his kids do. Would it make Magneto really old? Sure, and why not? He's an extremely powerful mutant. Who's to say what his lifespan or aging process would be? Maybe he's immortal. And even normal men can sire children into the 70's & 80's, so it's easily conceivable that they are young even though their daddy was around in WW II.
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Post by Nowhere Man on May 20, 2015 10:14:46 GMT -5
The reason that Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch aren't Magneto's children has nothing to do with WWII and everything to do with Marvel not owning the movie rights to Magneto and the rest of the X-Universe characters (other than Pietro and Wanda). Hence, when they shuffle Mags and the rest of his mutant friends off to their own universe because of Secret Wars, they can leave Pietro and Wanda in the "real" Marvel Universe and continue to use them in whatever capacity they want without ever having to bring up the name "Magneto" in relation to them again. However, it's apparently OK that Polaris is still his kid. Funny how Breevort isn't worried about her being tied to WWII, isn't it? That's probably a lot closer to the truth. I can see Marvel/Disney wanting a complete severing of Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch from the X-mythos, particularly now that they're mainstream. I now hope that Disney gets the X-Men's right just to see if they magically return to being Magneto's kids. |
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Post by Nowhere Man on May 20, 2015 10:17:21 GMT -5
If the issue ever was Magneto's ties to WW II (which I agree with Richard that the movie rights are a more likely explanation), it would be just stupid. Just because Magneto has ties to WW II and concentration camps doesn't mean his kids do. Would it make Magneto really old? Sure, and why not? He's an extremely powerful mutant. Who's to say what his lifespan or aging process would be? Maybe he's immortal. And even normal men can sire children into the 70's & 80's, so it's easily conceivable that they are young even though their daddy was around in WW II. I've thought this, and brought it up, many times but it seems to fall on deaf ears astoundingly enough. I mean, not only can Magneto manipulate magnetism, but basically the entire electromagnetic spectrum + astral project...and some people can't accept he has one more power that allows him to age slowly? Because no other character has that ability... |
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Post by Cei-U! on May 20, 2015 10:35:41 GMT -5
Don't forget that Magneto was transformed into an infant at the conclusion of The Defenders #17, and when Erik the Red restored him to adulthood in X-Men #104, Magneto was physiologically a young man "at the peak of his powers" once more. His ties to World War II, therefore, ought to be largely irrelevant to how vital a character he is in the present.
Cei-U!
I summon the in-continuity caveat!
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Post by DE Sinclair on May 20, 2015 10:47:03 GMT -5
Don't forget that Magneto was transformed into an infant at the conclusion of The Defenders #17, and when Erik the Red restored him to adulthood in X-Men #104, Magneto was physiologically a young man "at the peak of his powers" once more. His ties to World War II, therefore, ought to be largely irrelevant to how vital a character he is in the present. Cei-U! I summon the in-continuity caveat! Again you prove why you're the all-knowing historian of our rag-tag group. I've read both of those stories and completely forgot about the "turning back the clock" aspect. |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on May 21, 2015 5:59:17 GMT -5
When the representative of a company like Marvel tries to explain stupid retcons like that as if they were a storytelling issue instead of the obvious copyright and exploitation issue, my babelfish translates his words as "Roquefort, I think you're an imbecile".
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Post by Slam_Bradley on May 21, 2015 10:32:55 GMT -5
When the representative of a company like Marvel tries to explain stupid retcons like that as if they were a storytelling issue instead of the obvious copyright and exploitation issue, my babelfish translates his words as "Roquefort, I think you're an imbecile". It would be refreshing if they said, "We're doing it for rights reasons. Deal with it." It wouldn't even be bad if they said, "We like this better. So there." |
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Post by coke & comics on May 21, 2015 12:28:04 GMT -5
The reason that Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch aren't Magneto's children has nothing to do with WWII and everything to do with Marvel not owning the movie rights to Magneto and the rest of the X-Universe characters (other than Pietro and Wanda). Hence, when they shuffle Mags and the rest of his mutant friends off to their own universe because of Secret Wars, they can leave Pietro and Wanda in the "real" Marvel Universe and continue to use them in whatever capacity they want without ever having to bring up the name "Magneto" in relation to them again. However, it's apparently OK that Polaris is still his kid. Funny how Breevort isn't worried about her being tied to WWII, isn't it? This. The big reveal really is that they're not mutants, a concept Marvel films don't have the rights to. |
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Post by The Captain on May 21, 2015 13:26:26 GMT -5
The reason that Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch aren't Magneto's children has nothing to do with WWII and everything to do with Marvel not owning the movie rights to Magneto and the rest of the X-Universe characters (other than Pietro and Wanda). Hence, when they shuffle Mags and the rest of his mutant friends off to their own universe because of Secret Wars, they can leave Pietro and Wanda in the "real" Marvel Universe and continue to use them in whatever capacity they want without ever having to bring up the name "Magneto" in relation to them again. However, it's apparently OK that Polaris is still his kid. Funny how Breevort isn't worried about her being tied to WWII, isn't it? This. The big reveal really is that they're not mutants, a concept Marvel films don't have the rights to. What is going to be really awkward is when they try to hand wave away how Professor X, the most powerful telepath on the planet, believed for years that they were mutants and not Inhumans (which is what we all know they will wind up being in the long run). A fun project would be to go back and see if Cerebro ever located either of them, which would have been impossible if they weren't mutants. |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on May 22, 2015 5:46:47 GMT -5
This. The big reveal really is that they're not mutants, a concept Marvel films don't have the rights to. What is going to be really awkward is when they try to hand wave away how Professor X, the most powerful telepath on the planet, believed for years that they were mutants and not Inhumans (which is what we all know they will wind up being in the long run). A fun project would be to go back and see if Cerebro ever located either of them, which would have been impossible if they weren't mutants. And all the Sentinels are going "well, damn! There must be a bug in our programming!" Besides, why did Wanda's spell "No more mutants" depower Pietro? How did the Inhumans, who are pretty damn good at genetics, not realize that Pietro was one of them when he married Crystal? I thought they were against the idea at first and were worried about how Luna (Pietro and Wanda's daughter) would turn out. I can't wait until Disney shells out enough money to recover all its movie rights and we see an end to such nonsensical rewriting of history. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on May 22, 2015 6:43:56 GMT -5
What is going to be really awkward is when they try to hand wave away how Professor X, the most powerful telepath on the planet, believed for years that they were mutants and not Inhumans (which is what we all know they will wind up being in the long run). A fun project would be to go back and see if Cerebro ever located either of them, which would have been impossible if they weren't mutants. And all the Sentinels are going "well, damn! There must be a bug in our programming!" Besides, why did Wanda's spell "No more mutants" depower Pietro? How did the Inhumans, who are pretty damn good at genetics, not realize that Pietro was one of them when he married Crystal? I thought they were against the idea at first and were worried about how Luna (Pietro and Wanda's daughter) would turn out. I can't wait until Disney shells out enough money to recover all its movie rights and we see an end to such nonsensical rewriting of history. With Cerebro, at least in the early days, it was wrong all the time. It seems to pick up anyone with superpowers (for instance, the Stranger in issue 11, that I just reviewed). The Professor similarly seems to sense power more than a mutation, then just assuming the power comes from a mutation, so that'll work. For Scarlet Witch, she believed it, and her powers are magic, so that's probably enough. My impression of the Sentinels is that they were matching people up from a database, so if their database said Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch were mutants, they'll attack them. I know we all assume they could sense mutants, but maybe, like Cerebro, it really just senses power. I bet there was at least one it attacked someone that isn't a mutant. The Inhumans, I got nothing.... do I still get the No Prize?  |
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