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Post by Honeystinger on Jun 8, 2015 11:29:08 GMT -5
I'm hoping one of you can help with something that's been puzzling me for years. When I first started reading Daredevil (late 1970s or early 1980s) Matt was engaged to a woman named Heather. For some reason Foggy Nelson and Natasha (Black Widow) Romanov got together and made a plan: They wrote two notes, one to Matt forging Heather's signature and one to Heather forging Matt's signature. The gist of each note was the same: I don't love you and I'm breaking our engagement. Shortly thereafter Heather killed herself.
My question is, what on Earth were Foggy and Natasha trying to accomplish? I can't believe they intended Heather's suicide, but what did they intend? Why would they want to break up Matt and Heather? I began reading mid-story-arc, so I may have missed something that explained the situation. Can anyone tell me what led Foggy and Natasha to do what they did? The whole thing seemed way out of character for them.
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Post by DE Sinclair on Jun 8, 2015 11:35:35 GMT -5
I remembered the character, but not the incident you mention. This site has some information about her & it: www.comicvine.com/heather-glenn/4005-10365/It says: "Heather's suicide: Foggy and Black Widow, believing her relationship with Matt to be the cause of his stress, wrote fake notes to each her and Matt. Heather's note was supposed to be from Matt breaking up with her and begging her not to call, and the reverse was the note Matt got. Heather committed suicide after realizing they would never again be romantically involved." |
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Post by thwhtguardian on Jun 8, 2015 11:40:56 GMT -5
That sounds like a pretty bad story to me, yeesh.
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Post by Hoosier X on Jun 8, 2015 12:04:57 GMT -5
I started getting Daredevil with #126 and I think Heather's first appearance was either in that issue or the next. I liked Heather Glenn. But I think some of the later writers (and maybe some of the fans) didn't like her very much and she was treated pretty badly and her personality was changed to make her very unlikeable.
And eventually they killed her.
As to Natasha and Foggy's motives, they don't make a whole lot of sense. I'm not sure that it was out of character for Natasha to be party to something like that. Natasha has a dark side. So I wouldn't put something like that past her if the stakes were high enough. But to do it just because Matt seemed stressed? That was stupid. I don't buy it.
But Foggy's involvement is mystifying. It makes no sense whatsoever.
It was mostly just lazy writing, a way to get rid of a character that had been dragged through the mud by writers who didn't like her.
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Post by fanboystranger on Jun 8, 2015 12:25:31 GMT -5
It was a poor move in an era of truly great DD stories. People will harp on and on about what Frank Miller did to Karen Page (completely ignoring that by the end of the story, she has completely rebuilt herself through her own strength, then saves Matt Murdock), but the stage-clearing of Heather Glenn that preceded his return always bothered me a lot more.
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Post by fanboystranger on Jun 8, 2015 12:27:27 GMT -5
But Foggy's involvement is mystifying. It makes no sense whatsoever. Whenever Natasha's around, Foggy starts thinking with something else. He becomes "Guts" Nelson, and "Guts" Nelson isn't the sharpest tool in the shed. |
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Post by Honeystinger on Jun 8, 2015 13:40:21 GMT -5
Thanks, everyone.  Glad I'm not the only one who thinks the situation was weird. BTW, wasn't Foggy NYC's District Attorney at one time? I dimly recall an issue in which Foggy, as "Guts" Nelson, called on Wilson Fisk, the Kingpin; and I remember wondering how the heck Fisk could have failed to recognize the former DA. |
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Post by Ozymandias on Jun 8, 2015 13:56:55 GMT -5
I remembered the character, but not the incident you mention. This site has some information about her & it: www.comicvine.com/heather-glenn/4005-10365/It says: "Heather's suicide: Foggy and Black Widow, believing her relationship with Matt to be the cause of his stress, wrote fake notes to each her and Matt. Heather's note was supposed to be from Matt breaking up with her and begging her not to call, and the reverse was the note Matt got. Heather committed suicide after realizing they would never again be romantically involved." That synopsis doesn't really reflect, what happened in the last four pages, of DD #189 (final page unrelated). The problem with Matt, was that he had been treating her like garbage, because he never cared, and specially since Elektra's death, he was actually a very bad influence in her life. Foggy asked the Black Widow, if she could do something about it, more for Heather's sake, than anything else. |
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Post by Hoosier X on Jun 8, 2015 14:22:58 GMT -5
I remembered the character, but not the incident you mention. This site has some information about her & it: www.comicvine.com/heather-glenn/4005-10365/It says: "Heather's suicide: Foggy and Black Widow, believing her relationship with Matt to be the cause of his stress, wrote fake notes to each her and Matt. Heather's note was supposed to be from Matt breaking up with her and begging her not to call, and the reverse was the note Matt got. Heather committed suicide after realizing they would never again be romantically involved." That synopsis doesn't really reflect, what happened in the last four pages, of DD #189 (final page unrelated). The problem with Matt, was that he had been treating her like garbage, because he never cared, and specially since Elektra's death, he was actually a very bad influence in her life. Foggy asked the Black Widow, if she could do something about it, more for Heather's sake, than anything else. Thanks for clarifying that. It's been a while since I read those issues. I'd forgotten that the death of Heather Glenn was part of the classic issues of the Miller run, happening between Elektra's death and resurrection! I was thinking it happened after that period. |
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Post by fanboystranger on Jun 8, 2015 14:31:47 GMT -5
That synopsis doesn't really reflect, what happened in the last four pages, of DD #189 (final page unrelated). The problem with Matt, was that he had been treating her like garbage, because he never cared, and specially since Elektra's death, he was actually a very bad influence in her life. Foggy asked the Black Widow, if she could do something about it, more for Heather's sake, than anything else. Thanks for clarifying that. It's been a while since I read those issues. I'd forgotten that the death of Heather Glenn was part of the classic issues of the Miller run, happening between Elektra's death and resurrection! I was thinking it happened after that period. Heather Glenn's suicide happened during Denny O'Neil's run between Miller's first run and Born Again. She died in DD 220. She also briefly appeared in O'Neil's Iron Man run as both she and Tony Stark were battling alcoholism.
It was clearly a deck-clearing move by O'Neil to pave the way for the return of Karen Page in Born Again in DD 227. I believe that Denny was consulting with Frank over where to leave the book as a set-up for BA.
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Post by Ozymandias on Jun 8, 2015 14:37:30 GMT -5
That synopsis doesn't really reflect, what happened in the last four pages, of DD #189 (final page unrelated). The problem with Matt, was that he had been treating her like garbage, because he never cared, and specially since Elektra's death, he was actually a very bad influence in her life. Foggy asked the Black Widow, if she could do something about it, more for Heather's sake, than anything else. Thanks for clarifying that. It's been a while since I read those issues. I'd forgotten that the death of Heather Glenn was part of the classic issues of the Miller run, happening between Elektra's death and resurrection! I was thinking it happened after that period. It did happen after (DD #220), the thing with the forged letter was Miller. About her death, it may have happened at the end of the O'Neil run, but it had a suspicious "Special Thanks to Frank Miller" note. |
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Post by Honeystinger on Jun 8, 2015 15:35:45 GMT -5
I remembered the character, but not the incident you mention. This site has some information about her & it: www.comicvine.com/heather-glenn/4005-10365/It says: "Heather's suicide: Foggy and Black Widow, believing her relationship with Matt to be the cause of his stress, wrote fake notes to each her and Matt. Heather's note was supposed to be from Matt breaking up with her and begging her not to call, and the reverse was the note Matt got. Heather committed suicide after realizing they would never again be romantically involved." That synopsis doesn't really reflect, what happened in the last four pages, of DD #189 (final page unrelated). The problem with Matt, was that he had been treating her like garbage, because he never cared, and specially since Elektra's death, he was actually a very bad influence in her life. Foggy asked the Black Widow, if she could do something about it, more for Heather's sake, than anything else. Thanks for the clarification, ozymandias. If it was "for Heather's sake," it obviously backfired.  |
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Post by Ozymandias on Jun 8, 2015 16:00:01 GMT -5
It could be argued, that the damage was already done, and that their intervention came too late.
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Post by Spike-X on Jun 9, 2015 4:39:11 GMT -5
But Foggy's involvement is mystifying. It makes no sense whatsoever. Whenever Natasha's around, Foggy starts thinking with something else. He becomes "Guts" Nelson, and "Guts" Nelson isn't the sharpest tool in the shed. He's still a tool, though! |
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Glad I'm not the only one who thinks the situation was weird.
