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Post by fanboystranger on Jul 4, 2015 3:19:36 GMT -5
Seeing that this has been a contentious point in Shaxper's proposed "Best Non-Big Two Publisher" poll, I decided to start a preliminary poll to get a definitive answer within this community. The question is simple: "Do you consider Epic and Vertigo to be part of the Big Two or not?" I also included an additional option for non-commital respondents who wish to waffle on their answer, hopefully illuminating us with a thoughtful diatribe that explains to us that we're thinking about things wrong that we will inevitably ignore. Plus, two more that narrow the answer down a bit more (but are still wrong).
So, without further ado, the latest (and perhaps first, but hopefully only) preliminary poll for a potential future poll! In the words of Howard the Duck, "Get down America!" (And the rest of the world... sorry, I don't know your popular anthropomorphic characters unless they're drawn by Carl Barks.) |
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Post by crazyoldhermit on Jul 4, 2015 4:03:57 GMT -5
I'm not familiar with Epic but I'm going to lean towards "no" for Vertigo, because so much of its content has nothing to do with DC and it's approach to publishing and management is different. Fender owns Charvel, Jackson, Gretsch and Guild but I don't consider any of those to be in the same circle as Fender (except maybe Charvel, since its entire platform is based on metalized versions of Fender designs).
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2015 11:11:09 GMT -5
Same staff overseeing the editorial and marketing aspects of both the "main" line and the imprint, many times using the same characters owned by the house, and often the same creators working on projects for both, and the big one the big 2's power, market presence and standing with distributors and retailers top get the books shelf space and presence in ordering catalogs make these big 2 books not separate entities.
-M
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2015 16:13:54 GMT -5
Where I live Epic and Vertigo is non existance and therefore I do not know anything about them in the present sense.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2015 16:15:59 GMT -5
They're big two, but a better quality product with creator ownership, which is cool. Vertigo puts out some of my favorite comics, Epic Illustrated was awesome. But they're still Marvel and DC.Also, for the purposes of the vote they shouldn't be included on principle. The point of the whole thing is for people to list their facorite non big two publishers. Giving the votes to big two imprints defeats the whole purpose. It's like listing Batman as your favorite non superhero comic because he's technically not superpowered.
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Post by hondobrode on Jul 4, 2015 16:30:25 GMT -5
Pretty much what dupont said.
I feel they have a different marketing plan, different perspective, different approach, despite having overlapping creators and characters at time.
This, for me, boils down to the root term of [publisher.
Despite being pretty different, and I like both imprints, from a publishing perspective, I'd consider them akin to their corporate owners, for the purpose of Shax's poll.
The purpose is to highlight other non-Big Two publishers.
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Jul 4, 2015 18:12:53 GMT -5
I consider EC comics as a brand that had the greatest artwork in comics history I consider Vertigo comics as a brand that had the greatest writing in comics history
But having said that, Vertigo and Epic (along with other sub-imprints like MAX, Star Comics, Paradox, Jonni DC etc.) are subsidiaries of Marvel and DC. Part of the big 2 publishers. For the purpose of this poll, they are not separate |
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Post by coke & comics on Jul 4, 2015 21:07:36 GMT -5
They're big two, but a better quality product with creator ownership, which is cool. Vertigo in its heyday gave creators a better deal with partial stakes in the creations, but never actual creator ownership to my knowledge. And these days gives the creators far less. EPIC had genuine creator-ownership. |
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Post by coke & comics on Jul 4, 2015 21:20:57 GMT -5
I do hope we can settle this question here, so it doesn't come up again in future threads. I would hope if a question comics up about favorite non-big two comics, people wouldn't start listing Swamp Thing or Silver Surfer: Parable.
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sacorn
Junior Member
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Post by sacorn on Jul 4, 2015 21:30:35 GMT -5
While I love both 'imprints', if I was looking to purchase them off of a website, I would be searching under DC and Marvel for both lots. Whilst content can be seen as quite different, I very much consider both to be part of corporate DC and Marvel respectively, particularly for the purpose of the question at hand.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2015 0:46:57 GMT -5
They're big two, but a better quality product with creator ownership, which is cool. Vertigo in its heyday gave creators a better deal with partial stakes in the creations, but never actual creator ownership to my knowledge. And these days gives the creators far less. EPIC had genuine creator-ownership. According to Wiki "Vertigo was the first successful imprint of DC Comics to routinely publish creator-owned series, right from its launch, with Peter Milligan and Duncan Fegredo's Enigma." |
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Post by coke & comics on Jul 5, 2015 3:58:58 GMT -5
Vertigo in its heyday gave creators a better deal with partial stakes in the creations, but never actual creator ownership to my knowledge. And these days gives the creators far less. EPIC had genuine creator-ownership. According to Wiki "Vertigo was the first successful imprint of DC Comics to routinely publish creator-owned series, right from its launch, with Peter Milligan and Duncan Fegredo's Enigma." It seems I was at least in part mistaken. Enigma is creator-owned. Preacher is also creator-owned, but DC held adaptation rights for the first couple decades, though those have since lapsed. Can anybody shed light on the standard Vertigo deals and which series were creator-owned? It should also be noted that not all creator-owned series were published through Vertigo. Wiki also points to Fallen Angel and Sovereign Seven as creator-owned DC projects. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2015 5:24:17 GMT -5
I was under the assumption a whole lot of the current titles are creator owned. I know American Vampire and The Wake are, according to Snyder.
But looking into it, you're right about adaptation rights. They are held as long as the creator works for DC (Changed some time at least before 2012 from rights reverting back to creator after the material goes out of print, probably because of Watchmen). So if they decide to up and move their product to Image or whatever, they can, and then the rights revert back to them. I imagine there are advantages to working for DC over Image to counteract the disadvantages, but who knows.
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Post by Dizzy D on Jul 5, 2015 13:11:53 GMT -5
I was under the assumption a whole lot of the current titles are creator owned. I know American Vampire and The Wake are, according to Snyder. But looking into it, you're right about adaptation rights. They are held as long as the creator works for DC (Changed some time at least before 2012 from rights reverting back to creator after the material goes out of print, probably because of Watchmen). So if they decide to up and move their product to Image or whatever, they can, and then the rights revert back to them. I imagine there are advantages to working for DC over Image to counteract the disadvantages, but who knows. The big advantage to picking Vertigo over Image is that you get paid up front. So with Vertigo, you have a bit more of a sure thing when you launch a book, but the total amount of money you make of it, will probably be less. On the question itself: I'm siding with the majority so far (as I mentioned in the original thread): Epic and Vertigo had the whole supporting system of Marvel and DC behind them, so I see them as part of the Big Two. |
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sacorn
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Post by sacorn on Jul 5, 2015 18:30:22 GMT -5
I seem to recall the arrangement for the creator-owned titles was that if DC/Vertigo kept the titles in print, then they would have to remain with Vertigo. If the title was not available for 'x' period of time, the rights fell back to the creator. Much like Jamie Delano's 20/20 Visions, which he took elsewhere to be reprinted.
I can't confirm this as fact however.
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