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Post by badwolf on Dec 9, 2019 11:50:40 GMT -5
Okay, yeah I guess I would put all those on about the same level. But they're all superb.
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Post by kirby101 on Dec 9, 2019 11:57:55 GMT -5
Okay, yeah I guess I would put all those on about the same level. But they're all superb. Yes they are. And I wouldn't say Jones isn't worth the praise. Just not the hyperbole.
I do think Frazetta was a notch above everyone else.
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Post by Icctrombone on Dec 9, 2019 12:22:25 GMT -5
Yeah, the Jim Lee comments are over the top. His work on Hush was great. Over the top almost implies the opinions are made for the purpose of exaggeration. They are not. I've always disliked every stage of Jim Lee's "art". It is terrible as far as I'm concerned. Some posters are comparing his work to Liefeld. THAT’S over the top.
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Post by rberman on Dec 9, 2019 12:54:32 GMT -5
Wow, that's a pretty amazing auction, if one has hundreds of thousands of dollars to invest in Kirby, Ditko, etc.
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Post by beccabear67 on Dec 9, 2019 13:54:49 GMT -5
I think I personally rate Kaluta higher than Jones, especially looking through that auction catalog, but can see that Jones was closer to fine Art gallery type hanging, moreso than even Frazetta, but mainly because of subject matter for Frank. Frank Frazetta regardless of subject matter was the greatest ever ink artist comic books can ever see, he is at least a nudge ahead of Lou Fine, Reed Crandall and Mac Raboy. His ink work informed both Dave Stevens and Mark Schultz to a large degree. Jon J. Muth, Boris, the Hildebrandts, are all more constrained by/dependent on models I think than Jones was. And with Boris and the Hildebrandts, Barry Smith as well, the genre subject matter is going to keep them from a 'serious' audience. Even Jones 'comics' are much more absent of genre. Jones was more in line with the earlier mainstream illustrator/painter N.C. Wyeth, or (less so) Franklin Booth.
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Post by tarkintino on Dec 9, 2019 14:22:38 GMT -5
Okay, yeah I guess I would put all those on about the same level. But they're all superb. Yes they are. And I wouldn't say Jones isn't worth the praise. Just not the hyperbole.
I do think Frazetta was a notch above everyone else.
Frazetta was ar above the others he's compared to in recent posts. His near-limitless talent was matched by his concepts, which were unprecedented in many cases, and no one attempting to ape his work has ever come close. ..and certainly not in influence, volume of recognized legendary work...you name it.
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Post by impulse on Dec 9, 2019 15:46:51 GMT -5
Over the top almost implies the opinions are made for the purpose of exaggeration. They are not. I've always disliked every stage of Jim Lee's "art". It is terrible as far as I'm concerned. Some posters are comparing his work to Liefeld. THAT’S over the top. Yep, it's not that people don't like it. Taste is subjective and all, but so many people calling it objectively terrible which is just silly. I mean, he's certainly not perfect. It's not the most dynamic, a lot of his faces look similar, and he uses a lot of the same poses, but man, he draws the hell out of those face and poses.
I agree with whoever said his best final work is inked by Williams, but I think his fully-completed pencil work can be stunning on its own. There's a damn good argument to be made that he's a better poster artist than ongoing storyteller, though.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2019 19:56:32 GMT -5
As a kid, I assumed the writers, artists, inkers, letterers and colourists all worked in the same room (akin to a factory). And punched a time clock!
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Post by hondobrode on Dec 9, 2019 19:59:50 GMT -5
Isn't that kind of the image Stan put out there with his Bullpen though ?
I thought the same thing too.
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Post by Cei-U! on Dec 9, 2019 20:48:53 GMT -5
As a kid, I assumed the writers, artists, inkers, letterers and colourists all worked in the same room (akin to a factory). And punched a time clock! That was more or less how it worked back in the '40s, when studios like Harry "A" Chesler, Eisner-Iger, and Funnies, Inc provided content for the publishers. The Jack Binder studio, for example, worked out of a converted barn on Long Island. Writers sometimes worked at home under this system, but anybody who handled the actual art pages did indeed work in the same room and punched a time clock.
Cei-U! I summon the sweatshop!
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Post by Icctrombone on Dec 9, 2019 20:50:26 GMT -5
As a kid, I assumed the writers, artists, inkers, letterers and colourists all worked in the same room (akin to a factory). And punched a time clock! That was more or less how it worked back in the '40s, when studios like Harry "A" Chesler, Eisner-Iger, and Funnies, Inc provided content for the publishers. The Jack Binder studio, for example, worked out of a converted barn on Long Island. Writers sometimes worked at home under this system, but anybody who handled the actual art pages did indeed work in the same room and punched a time clock.
Cei-U! I summon the sweatshop!
Maybe the Image 7 should have used that system in their beginning stages...
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Post by tarkintino on Dec 9, 2019 22:48:57 GMT -5
Isn't that kind of the image Stan put out there with his Bullpen though ? I thought the same thing too. Yes, and in the 1970s, Marvel still sold that idea. Take this cover of FOOM #16 (December, 1976)-- It was a slightly satirical illustration, but the company sold the idea that all of its staff or hired talents were all piled in the building. DC's The Amazing World of DC Comics #2 (September, 1974) was not too far off in selling it just two years earlier-- While the DC cover was not as sledgehammered as the Marvel cover, the idea of writers sitting around in an office setting was presented to readers as normal.
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Post by impulse on Dec 10, 2019 10:00:37 GMT -5
That was more or less how it worked back in the '40s, when studios like Harry "A" Chesler, Eisner-Iger, and Funnies, Inc provided content for the publishers. The Jack Binder studio, for example, worked out of a converted barn on Long Island. Writers sometimes worked at home under this system, but anybody who handled the actual art pages did indeed work in the same room and punched a time clock. Cei-U! I summon the sweatshop!
Maybe the Image 7 should have used that system in their beginning stages... What a waste of payroll for all the inkers, colorists, letterers, etc, to sit around waiting for pages to never get done...
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Post by MDG on Dec 10, 2019 10:11:17 GMT -5
Maybe the Image 7 should have used that system in their beginning stages... What a waste of payroll for all the inkers, colorists, letterers, etc, to sit around waiting for pages to never get done... In an interview, Binder (I think it was) talked about a studio where pages had a rubber stamp on the back with spaces for: script, layouts, pencil figures, pencil backgrounds, ink main figures, ink secondary figures, ink backgrounds, and letters. Pages would get passed around and people would initial what they did on the page. At the end of the week, they'd get paid a dollar for each entry and the studio got completed pages for $8.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Dec 10, 2019 10:24:44 GMT -5
Isn't that kind of the image Stan put out there with his Bullpen though ? I thought the same thing too. Yep. That was a lie that Stan thought served a commercial purpose.
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