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Post by Ozymandias on Feb 24, 2022 11:21:41 GMT -5
In the comics, I mean. It looks to me, like his "strange behavior" started just after Ultron erased his memories (as revealed in #58). Surely this has been addressed in the 50+ years which have elapsed, but I forget.
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Post by zaku on Feb 24, 2022 12:41:07 GMT -5
Usually it's the other way around. "Oh no, Ultron wants to destroy the world. Again!" (Everybody glare at Hank).
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Post by codystarbuck on Feb 24, 2022 22:58:25 GMT -5
It's been included as a factor in his "troubles," both in the Shooter story, where Hank turns up as Ant-Man, with no memory of his later career and attacks the others (and kicks their hinders, and in the Busiek story, when Jan talks about Hank's issues, over the years. Neither assigns outright blame to it.
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Post by zaku on Feb 25, 2022 4:51:31 GMT -5
It's been included as a factor in his "troubles," both in the Shooter story, where Hank turns up as Ant-Man, with no memory of his later career and attacks the others (and kicks their hinders, and in the Busiek story, when Jan talks about Hank's issues, over the years. Neither assigns outright blame to it. I can understand that, from a narrative point of view, it could be problematic to assign all the blame for Hank's "weird" behavior to Ultron. It might seem that the responsibility for his sins is being diminished. "Ah, when I slapped my wife? No problem, Ultron made me do it, I have nothing to do with it.". |
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Post by Ozymandias on Feb 25, 2022 6:52:35 GMT -5
It's not so much that he was being mind controlled, as tampered with. Was he ever himself again, once his brain had been hacked? codystarbuck thanks, I knew something like that was bound to have been mentioned. |
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Post by profh0011 on Feb 25, 2022 10:11:21 GMT -5
I can understand that, from a narrative point of view, it could be problematic to assign all the blame for Hank's "weird" behavior to Ultron. It might seem that the responsibility for his sins is being diminished. "Ah, when I slapped my wife? No problem, Ultron made me do it, I have nothing to do with it.". The sad truth is... JIM SHOOTER made him do it.
It's what I call "bad writing".
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Post by zaku on Feb 25, 2022 10:46:54 GMT -5
I can understand that, from a narrative point of view, it could be problematic to assign all the blame for Hank's "weird" behavior to Ultron. It might seem that the responsibility for his sins is being diminished. "Ah, when I slapped my wife? No problem, Ultron made me do it, I have nothing to do with it.". The sad truth is... JIM SHOOTER made him do it.
It's what I call "bad writing".
He has a different version... Hank Pym was Not a Wife-Beater |
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Post by Cei-U! on Feb 25, 2022 11:45:03 GMT -5
His version is BS, as anybody who knows how comics were produced back then realizes. There was plenty of time to fix it, had he wanted it fixed. Since the story would've still been in the pencil stage, Shooter could easily have asked John Romita or one of the staff artists to redraw that panel, It would've taken all of half an hour for *me* to redraw it, so you know they could've done it quicker. For that matter, he could've had Dan Green fix it at the inking stage. It blew up in his face and he's been trying to cover his ass for 40 years.
Cei-U! I call shenanigans!
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Feb 25, 2022 12:38:53 GMT -5
Everyone is the hero of his own story. |
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Post by Marv-El on Feb 27, 2022 14:11:48 GMT -5
I can understand that, from a narrative point of view, it could be problematic to assign all the blame for Hank's "weird" behavior to Ultron. It might seem that the responsibility for his sins is being diminished. "Ah, when I slapped my wife? No problem, Ultron made me do it, I have nothing to do with it.". The sad truth is... JIM SHOOTER made him do it.
It's what I call "bad writing".
I firmly agree with this. After finally reading Thomas' run on Avengers, the incidents with creation of Ultron, Hank creating the Yellowjacket identity, they all seem singular incidents at the time. They happened, they were handled, time to move on (with the biggest overriding question being did Hank want to be a super-hero or a scientist?) Shooter appears to be the one later to connect the dots between those incidents and decide that, no Hank is just mentally unstable and he went downhill from there. Right or wrong, this has become the dominant perception of Hank for most fans. Within that perception, for me, the end all and be all on the matter of Hank and Ultron was laid out by Busiek and Perez in their Ultron Unlimited arc where they revealed that Hank used his own brainwave patterns to create Ultron. Because of that, seeing the destruction that Ultron later created caused Hank to question if he himself was capable of such acts. It was a great psychological twist for Hank even if it was based on a flawed treatment from Shooter that ended up being defining for the character. |
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