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Post by Batflunkie on Aug 10, 2023 18:00:29 GMT -5
So I've talked about my love for Cap ad nauseam, but I think that this is a good a thread as any to reiterate it
I think it started when I was about somewhere in the 8 to 10 range. I went with my mom to a local close-out chain called "Hudson's Treasure Hunt" and found a VHS compilation of the old Marvel Super-Heroes cartoon serials from the 60's and was properly entranced. I'd later get a copy of the complete retrospective of Volume 1 called Captain America: The Legend (that I'd later grow to appreciate once I actually underwent the task of reading all of volume 1 in later years) and watch the 1990 Albert Pyun movie (which while it wasn't that great, all I wanted at that age was Cap beating the crap out of Red Skull)
I think what I like the most about Steve is that really, anybody could have taken his place. He was not totally special, but people believed in him enough and he believed in and fought for the right things and was chosen to be the bearer the awesome responsibility that came with drinking the Super Soldier Serum (which I still hold to as the defacto origin, not the Vita-Ray malarkey)
Currently my favorite iterations of Cap in the comics are 60's Jack Kirby (along with Bicentennial Battles), late 70's/early 80's Roger McKenzie, and 80's J.M. DeMatteis
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Post by k7p5v on Aug 10, 2023 20:20:24 GMT -5
Yeah! The Matt Salinger Cap will always be memorable, fake ears & all (LOL):  |
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Post by Hoosier X on Aug 10, 2023 20:23:35 GMT -5
I’ve been reading the Cap series in Tales of Suspense. (Via Marvel Masterworks.) I had been leaving my comments in the “What Classic Comics Have you Read Lately?” thread. But I’ll start leaving them here.
I’m up to #82. This is my favorite Captain America run.
My first issue back in the 1970s was #192, so Jack Kirby’s return (#193) was my second issue! Kirby’s Cap sold out on a regular basis, so I missed a few issues up to about #203, but from there, I read Cap regularly to about #230. It got kind of WEIRD! But I started getting it again about #245 and didn’t miss an issue until #335 or so, when I mostly quit buying comics for a while.
Except for a few issues here and there over the years, I have not read Captain America since.
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Post by Batflunkie on Aug 10, 2023 20:39:08 GMT -5
I’ve been reading the Cap series in Tales of Suspense. (Via Marvel Masterworks.) I had been leaving my comments in the “What Classic Comics Have you Read Lately?” thread. But I’ll start leaving them here. I’m up to #82. This is my favorite Captain America run. There's just something about TOS Cap, particularly the WWII issues, that really grabbed me and I really don't know why because I'm not particularly interested in that side of history, let alone War movies (outside of Full Metal Jacket, Stripes, and Good Morning Vietnam maybe). It just had this kind of energy about it that really speaks to how good Kirby and Stan were as respective storytellers at the time My first issue back in the 1970s was #192, so Jack Kirby’s return (#193) was my second issue! Kirby’s Cap sold out on a regular basis, so I missed a few issues up to about #203, but from there, I read Cap regularly to about #230. It got kind of WEIRD! But I started getting it again about #245 and didn’t miss an issue until #335 or so, when I mostly quit buying comics for a while. Except for a few issues here and there over the years, I have not read Captain America since. I think I would have appreciated Kirby's return to the book more if A) I hadn't read OMAC first (His tenure on Cap just feels like a somewhat half-baked continuation) and B) he didn't completely wall the book off from the rest of the Marvel Universe. I do love Bicentennial Battles though. IDK, maybe I might want to re-read it at some point. I initially hated DeMatteis' run, but grew to love it upon a re-read After Kirby left again, the book was kind a weird hodge-podge of "let's try anything" like Cap's civilian identity being a lie and Red Skull successfully infiltrating S.H.I.E.L.D.(and lest we forget Lyle Dekker/Ameridroid). It was so bizarre and strange, that I honestly can't wait to see it in Epic Collection form
I would have liked to have seen what Stern would have done on the title if he had been allowed to continue and not let go because of Shooter's mandate for "no continuous stories" |
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Post by codystarbuck on Aug 10, 2023 20:58:29 GMT -5
McKenzie's stuff, with some of my favorites, including Dr Faustus and the return of the 50s Cap, as the Grand Director of the National Force, which had some timely stuff in it, plus the introduction of Bernie Rosenthal and the recollection of Mrs Kapplebaum, of Captain America liberating the Diebenwald Concentration Camp....  Steve Englehart's stuff is good, I like the weird Kirby stuff, Roger Stern, some of Mark Gruenwald's, and bits and pieces from throughout the run. Now, for the movies, Captain America: The First Avenger was the first one I felt got it right, with a level of quality, even if the third act felt rushed to get him frozen for the future. I still think thet should have been held off until at least the end of the second film; but, a mediocre Avengers film took precedent (the fight in it is just too generic for me to get very invested in it, Loki or no Loki). |
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Post by Icctrombone on Aug 10, 2023 20:58:49 GMT -5
I like certain runs of Captain America. The Engelhart 50’s cap, the Stern /Byrne run and the Fighting chance storyline where he end’s up with armor.
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Post by k7p5v on Aug 10, 2023 22:10:17 GMT -5
I like certain runs of Captain America. The Engelhart 50’s cap, the Stern /Byrne run and the Fighting chance storyline where he end’s up with armor. IMHO, what came after Fighting Chance is legendarily classic. All things considered, the 1st Garney/Waid run is still an All-Time Favorite   |
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Post by berkley on Aug 10, 2023 22:51:20 GMT -5
I've liked the character - which is a continual surprise to me because I'm usually very suspicious of anything that feels to me like excessive American patriotism and, probably in at least some cases unfairly, that's almost everything along those lines, Superman being a prime comic book example. So if there were any logic to my reaction, one would think I should dislike Captain America even more.
But of course there isn't always a lot of logic to these kinds of emotional reactions. I can only conjecture that I was so early attuned to Kirby's style of artwork and storytelling so that I first saw Captain America in terms of more of that kind of thing, the kind of comics I liked, rather than American propaganda (not that I would have put it in those terms at such a young age).
Anyway, other than the '60s Kirby, I like the few issues Steranko did and what I've read of the short Gene Colan run, Colan's style being a surprisingly good fit; and the IMO misunderstood and therefore under-rated '70s Kirby run. I missed the Englehart CA but look forward to reading it someday since he's one of my favourite comics writers. After the 1970s Kirby i'm not much interested, but that's more to do with a loss of interest in Marvel in general from the early 1980s onwards.
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Post by codystarbuck on Aug 10, 2023 23:01:36 GMT -5
I've liked the character - which is a continual surprise to me because I'm usually very suspicious of anything that feels to me like excessive American patriotism and, probably in at least some cases unfairly, that's almost everything along those lines, Superman being a prime comic book example. So if there were any logic to my reaction, one would think I should dislike Captain America even more. But of course there isn't always a lot of logic to these kinds of emotional reactions. I can only conjecture that I was so early attuned to Kirby's style of artwork and storytelling so that I first saw Captain America in terms of more of that kind of thing, the kind of comics I liked, rather than American propaganda (not that I would have put it in those terms at such a young age). Anyway, other than the '60s Kirby, I like the few issues Steranko did and what I've read of the short Gene Colan run, Colan's style being a surprisingly good fit; and the IMO misunderstood and therefore under-rated '70s Kirby run. I missed the Englehart CA but look forward to reading it someday since he's one of my favourite comics writers. After the 1970s Kirby i'm not much interested, but that's more to do with a loss of interest in Marvel in general from the early 1980s onwards. To me, Captain America, especially in Kirby's hands and in anyone who followed his lead, embodied the best of American Ideals, as detailed in the philosophical writings of the Revolutionary Era, rather than the nastier, more complex truth of things. Also, he embodies the ideas of other noble values, like standing up for the Little Guy and socking the bullies of the world, right smack in the nose. Really, Simon and Kirby drew a line in the sand with that first cover, when Cap socks Hitler. Cap is more of an aspirational figure than Uncle Sam, if you ask me. Cap is more of what we could be, if we were selfless, while uncle Sam if more of what we think we are, or what The Powers That Be want us to believe, to get behind their programs. Simon & Kirby filled Cap with more of the reality of the Depression and the World War, rather than U-S-A, U-S-A. When done badly, he can degenerate to that level; but, of all the patriotic heroes of the era, I think the fact that he survived to return speaks to those more noble aspects, than just punching Nazis. If that was all it took, the Shield would have done better in every era; yet, despite beating Cap to the punch, he was always second string. |
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Aug 11, 2023 2:58:35 GMT -5
I like Captain America fine, without him being anywhere near my Top 5 favourite superheroes. But I do enjoy certain eras of his comics, though I must admit that, overall, my familiarity with his comic history is woefully incomplete.
By far my favourite run of the character is the J. M. DeMatteis run from the early 80s, with Mike Zeck on pencils. I bought issues from this era sporadically back in the day and always enjoyed them...and I think those issues still hold up well to modern eyes.
The two issue Steranko run from 1969 (it's not really long enough to be a run) is another high point.
Silver Age Cap is probably the other era I know best, both from the pages of TOS and The Avengers. I always enjoyed the whole "man out of time" angst that ran as a sub-plot throughout that era.
I'd really like to read more of the Captain America and the Falcon issues from the early-to-mid 70s. I've always liked The Flacon and those issues look really interesting.
I think Cap has a great, great costume too and was always a little disappointed as a kid that Captain Britain's wasn't anywhere near as good.
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Roquefort Raider
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Aug 11, 2023 7:50:38 GMT -5
I admit to suffer from Golden Age syndrome, in that my favourite Captain America run is the one I read when I was twelve, the Engehart-Sal Buscema one. The whole Secret Empire arc felt so sophisticated back then! Being a fan of well-crafted continuity, I also enjoyed things like Peggy Carter having been Cap's war time flame or the '50s anti-communist Cap being part of the official canon. (Could have done without the Snap Wilson thing or the Frank Robbins art, though).
The Tales of Suspense material I discovered much later in reprint format. Good, clean fun; I especially enjoyed the Sleeprs storyline.
When Kirby came back to the title in the '70s, I was disappointed. Kirby had a style all his own that I grew to enjoy, but it felt like the comic had turned its back on everything I had enjoyed about it during the Englehart run to focus solely on straight adventure -just as would happen later to the Black Panther. When Kirby left for a second time and Buscema came back, the flame had gone out for me. I ony read a couple of issues in between that time and the Roger Stern-John Byrne run, which was not like the Englehart one but equally brilliant.
Another big hiatus, this time until Brubaker's tenure. It was pretty engaging for most of its run (and is the longest stretch I read Captain America, come to think of it), but I thought the hero's return from the dead at the end made no sense. It was a case of a well-written return to the basics.
I like the concept of the character, and the way he's supposed to defend American ideals rather than American politics. And when we played make-believe as kids, it was much easier to be Captain America than, say, Thor: a trashcan lid made a decent shield, but a big hammer was always problematic.
Oh, and of course... those Steranko issues. Talk about epoch-making work!
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Post by tarkintino on Aug 11, 2023 11:23:31 GMT -5
Another Captain America thread, and the second by Batflunkie. Why not?  In Batflunkie's original thread, I posted the belief that the "Man out of Time" era--from his reintroduction in The Avengers #4, the Tales of Suspense era through his back and forth about his costumed identity well into Captain America and The Falcon #176 (including the Nomad period from #180 - #183) are a near-perfect run for the character. As much as The Amazing Spider-Man comics of the era are showered with (deserved) praise for having a hero with complications on both sides of his life, Captain America arguably had as many, or problems that shook the core of who Steve Rogers was as a person. Add his great relationship (brotherhood, actually) with the Falcon (and Wilson's own troubles being a superhero partner to a man with an image that made Wilson--by association--"untrustworthy" to some militant factions of his own race), and you had a title that was rich with personal, social and political drama. As a result, Cap became an even stronger leader than he was during World War Two, thanks to his being a "product" of the hopes and extremes of the past and then-present. In other words, he was written to have a perspective on life not shaped by any one era, so he was not going to fall into the sort of narrow-mindedness of one who only knows (or cares to know) one era or political ideology/experience. |
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Post by Batflunkie on Aug 11, 2023 12:47:46 GMT -5
Another Captain America thread, and the second by Batflunkie. Why not? In Batflunkie's original thread, I posted the belief that the "Man out of Time" era--from his reintroduction in The Avengers #4, the Tales of Suspense era through his back and forth about his costumed identity well into Captain America and The Falcon #176 (including the Nomad period from #180 - #183) are a near-perfect run for the character. As much as The Amazing Spider-Man comics of the era are showered with (deserved) praise for having a hero with complications on both sides of his life, Captain America arguably had as many, or problems that shook the core of who Steve Rogers was as a person. Add his great relationship (brotherhood, actually) with the Falcon (and Wilson's own troubles being a superhero partner to a man with an image that made Wilson--by association--"untrustworthy" to some militant factions of his own race), and you had a title that was rich with personal, social and political drama. As a result, Cap became an even stronger leader than he was during World War Two, thanks to his being a "product" of the hopes and extremes of the past and then-present. In other words, he was written to have a perspective on life not shaped by any one era, so he was not going to fall into the sort of narrow-mindedness of one who only knows (or cares to know) one era or political ideology/experience. Actually, it's my third  (one about the greatest Cap stories ever told and a short lived review thread for DeMatteis' run on Cap)
I think what made DeMatteis' Cap run so good is how well he balanced Steve's personal life with his costumed adventures. Gruenwald's tenure really didn't do that and kind of relegated Steve's personal life to the backburner. It's alright I suppose, but I don't really understand why it's so highly regarded
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Post by driver1980 on Aug 11, 2023 12:55:27 GMT -5
I like “cross-pollination” of heroes/villains in comics, so this is a good opportunity to share this:  |
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Post by Batflunkie on Aug 11, 2023 12:59:42 GMT -5
I like “cross-pollination” of heroes/villains in comics, so this is a good opportunity to share this: That's a good issue by Shooter. It's where Cap gets his own bike as a reward for helping this guy's teenage son out |
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(one about the greatest Cap stories ever told and a short lived review thread for DeMatteis' run on Cap)