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Post by Paste Pot Paul on Jan 11, 2015 14:29:49 GMT -5
I cant imagine Stan writing THOSE lines either, but remember this isnt the same Johnny they had, he's had more miles under the belt, he's seen stuff no-one would believe, and he wouldn't be the shallow jerk still, that was one of the great things Hickman did, he grew John up. Yet those lines still fit within the established parameters of our FF, they were never so over-awed that they couldn't get it done, they proved to themselves long ago that they deserved to stand tall...with giants, and that's the confidence, the arrogance, that comes out in statements like that. I loved that he survives and beats Annihilus, I loved Spidey being his replacement(regardless of the stupidity of his being an Avenger at the same time) because thats THE only natural thing for them to do, I loved what they faced in that time and how Hickman had me cheering like the 13 year old me who discovered them 40 years ago, and lines like those were a huge part of that. To each his own brother, hope you get it, but if you dont we can always find another title to love together man. I think I get it in terms of why a lot of readers like it and why Hickman wrote it, but that kind of thing has never been a big part of what I look for in superhero comics, and as it's become emphasised more and more through the years it's become more and more distasteful to me. I agree that the FF were never over-awed - but awed enough to get the sense of wonder across to the reader - the sense that there are things beyond us, that reality is bigger than us. That there's something to to strive for, new levels of understanding - and yes, sometimes, power - to reach for. That we aren't the be-all and end-all. That sense of wonder has been misinterpreted by some readers as the kind of over-awed reaction you mention: so lost in wonder and awe that one can't act, but just bows down before it. But there's another, more important, sense of wonder that's found in some of the best science fiction and that I think is often behind the impulse to understand reality and how it works - science and philosophy. I think that's been lost as the stories have become more concerned with exalting the heroes to ever higher levels - ironically at the same time as they're trying to make them more realistic and fallible in other ways. Too many superhero comics, in an effort to represent human potential in the symbolic form of superheroes, end up sending the message that we are already, right now, the be-all and end-all - that our intelligence and technology makes us masters of reality. Even one of my favourite writers, Grant Morrison, falls into this trap at times, in my view. History and every day's news tells us that we are far from being masters of reality, of nature, or even of ourselves. We still have a long way to go to see if we can even survive our own limitations as a species. That's one of the reasons I think we should be wary of jettisoning that sense of wonder in favour of the power fantasy in our stories. But anyway, as always, I'm just expressing my own feelings about these things, not trying to imply that this is how everyone else has to feel as well. I wouldn't be happy if my negative comments spoiled anyone's enjoyment of their favourite stories - though of course I hope they might make them consider that there's another way (far from the only way) to think about those stories. I think that more than saying we ARE masters of our reality, what the better writers strive for is to show our potential for this, recognising our inherent weaknesses, but stating that we aspire to so much more, that we can do better. Thats what Ive taken from Morrison, Brubaker, and even that Hickman fulla . As for your comments, I dont see them as negative, in fact I applaud you for making me actually think about what I like, and the reasons some of it speaks to me. As you acknowledge, what resonates differs from person to person, but a forum such as this to express, share, and defend those views is a special place (especially given what the interwebby-thing can degenerate into). so thanks mate, may there be many more books we can ... discuss.
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Post by Paste Pot Paul on Jan 10, 2015 22:29:36 GMT -5
They read to me in a more negative way - as a sign of the power fantasy that has always been a part of superhero comics but to my eyes has become increasingly overblown through the years, as if it has to keep outdoing itself, building the hero up to ever loftier heights of glory. I can't imagine Stan Lee, and definitely not Jack Kirby, writing that line. Compare the Johnny Storm scene in the original Galactus story where he's so awed by what he's seen on his cosmic journey that he can only jabber "We're just ants!" when he first returns. When we feel the need to see powerful alien beings like Annihilus and even god-like entities like Galactus reduced to mere pawns of our heroes, that's not a healthy sign, IMO. I cant imagine Stan writing THOSE lines either, but remember this isnt the same Johnny they had, he's had more miles under the belt, he's seen stuff no-one would believe, and he wouldn't be the shallow jerk still, that was one of the great things Hickman did, he grew John up. Yet those lines still fit within the established parameters of our FF, they were never so over-awed that they couldn't get it done, they proved to themselves long ago that they deserved to stand tall...with giants, and that's the confidence, the arrogance, that comes out in statements like that. I loved that he survives and beats Annihilus, I loved Spidey being his replacement(regardless of the stupidity of his being an Avenger at the same time) because thats THE only natural thing for them to do, I loved what they faced in that time and how Hickman had me cheering like the 13 year old me who discovered them 40 years ago, and lines like those were a huge part of that. To each his own brother, hope you get it, but if you dont we can always find another title to love together man.
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Post by Paste Pot Paul on Jan 10, 2015 20:11:34 GMT -5
Didn't you folks see Shax's post ? She spat the dummy because he wouldn't bow to her demands.
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Post by Paste Pot Paul on Jan 10, 2015 20:08:36 GMT -5
Ima thinkin Vibe n Gypsy suck too, Marvel aint got dibs on dis one(but Triathlon was high on the suckage list too).
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Post by Paste Pot Paul on Jan 10, 2015 7:39:59 GMT -5
When I was17 or 18 there was a newspaper article about a local couple who had worked on a big Hollywood movie overseas, in Norway where the wife was from. They had got jobs as extras, and were happy to share their story, of course this is 20 years before the Rings movies get Hollywood excited about filming in NZ. So I looked in the phonebook and found their number, called them, and they graciously agreed to let me go and geek out their home. They gave me a couple of hours of patience, many stories, and when I left an envelope. When I got home here were 2 or 3 call sheets and about 20 to 30 photos from the movie... The Empire Strikes Back.
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Post by Paste Pot Paul on Jan 10, 2015 6:59:27 GMT -5
Marvel...Deadpool DC...Lobo
Sure some lame villains deserve ridicule, but those 2 are derivative trash, with the sole purpose of relieving you of money better spent on navel gazing. (Im sure theyre both australian)
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Post by Paste Pot Paul on Jan 10, 2015 6:47:50 GMT -5
Berk, theyre classic comicbook bravado, the Hollywood lines id spout if i stood, barrel chested, legs planted, ready to do battle for truth, justice, and the...kiwi way. They are the lines that make our little hobby worthwhile, the lines that have you giggling like a kid, that make you love the guilty pleasure of geekdom, that keep us coming back. Without quotables like these they would just be another New52 book (that may cause a few hate letters) . Hickmans Fantastic Four was the best version since Stan and Jack, filled with family, adventure, and awe. The first time in decades they were truly Marvels First Family, Byrne came close, and others may have tried, but you need the killer ideas, the shit Kirby would have been cramming into every panel, and Hickman is the only person that ever came close to making me think Jack would be sitting there applauding.
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Post by Paste Pot Paul on Jan 9, 2015 16:50:50 GMT -5
Spidey cant be an Avenger, but its okay for Sandman, and effing D-Man. I like that they threw Peter in there, and he spends so much of his time stressing about not screwing up in front of the big guns, hes a neurotic mess, but still gets it together when it counts.
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Post by Paste Pot Paul on Jan 9, 2015 5:13:05 GMT -5
That's just crazy... I really have no words for this, well at least no words that could be used with out me banning myself. The best words for this are "Je suis Charlie"
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Post by Paste Pot Paul on Jan 9, 2015 5:09:51 GMT -5
Just wanted to say that you guys are the best. <3 Well I am, they're just poor alternate universe imitations sent to spy on us...or was it the other way round
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Post by Paste Pot Paul on Jan 9, 2015 5:08:06 GMT -5
Hmmm...anyone else notice that when Jez isnt around that Dan B. isn't either ? Coincidence...or SECRET IDENTITY I leave it to your discretion
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Post by Paste Pot Paul on Jan 9, 2015 4:59:37 GMT -5
I haven't read it in 30 or so years but remember liking it. BTW, TwoMorrows, who publish the excellent Jack Kirby Collector, also offer Silver Star in a special Graphite edition, which I think is shot directly from Kirby's uninked pages IIRC. I'm so jealous, want this bad now.
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Post by Paste Pot Paul on Jan 9, 2015 4:48:18 GMT -5
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Post by Paste Pot Paul on Jan 7, 2015 16:41:11 GMT -5
Anyone have thoughts on the Warlord series from the 80's? I used to read a bit of Warlord back in the day, it was always okay, and Im quite a fan of Grell, but that cover illustrates his weakness, some of his figure work gets a bit funky at times. Warlord here looks like hes leading a dance class.
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Post by Paste Pot Paul on Jan 6, 2015 4:58:55 GMT -5
MDG
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