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Post by Reptisaurus! on Dec 13, 2023 1:01:13 GMT -5
I never read Lost Girls. I tend to read Moore’s stuff through the library, and for some reason I can never find Lost Girls on the shelves. Also been putting off Halo Jones ‘till Moore finishes it but that has been…. A while.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Dec 12, 2023 20:43:01 GMT -5
Found it! The pre-Crisis Superman didn't have a memorable "rogue gallery". This was the most similar thing in the 1977: If I were Luthor or Brainiac I would feel embarrassed being in the same room with Toyman. And When you have to put The Prankster and Amalak (that I hadn't the faintest idea who he was, I had to Google it) between the "9 deadliest Superman foes" you are really scraping the bottom of the barrel. But Terra-Man immediately bumps the cool factor of any group he joins. and i will brook no argument on this. Amen.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Dec 11, 2023 1:38:08 GMT -5
It feels like PI never really came alive until she was paired with Harley Quinn and made a lesbian. IIRC that was heavily implied in the ‘90s cartoon.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Dec 10, 2023 0:31:10 GMT -5
They appear later in the story in Batman #181. It’s chaotic and wonderful. They also turn up in Batman #670 in 2007, 41 years after their first appearance, in what is mostly an inside joke for fans.
That’s beautiful. I was vaguely aware they had turned up again - I was researching Poison Ivy so obviously I spent half a. Hour googling “Silken Spider + Batman”) but that’s another story I never got around to reading.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Dec 10, 2023 0:27:41 GMT -5
Isn't she more associated with Batman because of the Batman tv show from the 60s? I think I once read that they wanted more female villains and she was specifically created to answer that call. Although she never actually made it onto the show, Ivy was considered. One of the Catwoman episodes featured a villain sidekick played by Lesley Gore who was originally Ivy in script drafts before being made into a different character. She was largely cemented as a key Batman villain post-Crisis. A lot of classic villains really didn't appear much in their associated character's books, and adaptations in animation and film are what boosted their profiles. Mr. Freeze only had a handful of pre-Crisis appearances. Yeah, thank you! I was, like, 80% sure that Rags was correct that Ivy was intended for the Batman show.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Dec 9, 2023 2:13:01 GMT -5
It’s a spin-off of Willie Lumpkin.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Dec 9, 2023 2:11:30 GMT -5
About 10 years ago, I purchased a batch of very low-grade issues of Lois Lane from the early 1970s, and most of them had the Rose and Thorn back-up feature. Among them was the first part of the storyline where the 100 had hired Poison Ivy to come to Metropolis to kill the Thorn. I remember being very surprised when I looked it up online to find out that it was her third appearance. And then I did a little more digging and discovered that the first comic book where I ever saw her, Batman #291, was only her ninth appearance! And only third appearance in a Batman title. I haven’t read the story but know OF it…. It’s a 4 parter where different villains talk about how they killed Batman. I know she’s not a major character but does she interact with Batman at all? There was a Gene Colan Batman vs Poison Ivy story in the early 80s. Is that the third time she fought Batman not as part of a team? My thesis is sound! I haven’t read the Thorn story either, but that pairing makes good thematic sense. Was P I still in pure femme fatale mode?
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Dec 8, 2023 23:55:32 GMT -5
Listen, my favorite Marvel character is Stegton the Dinosaur Man, but even *I* was shocked by that. Beauford’s (sp?) got a…. Unique costume at least.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Dec 8, 2023 23:52:34 GMT -5
So in this thread name characters who are associated with a specific hero but probably shouldn’t be. I've always considered the Rhino a Spider-Man villain first and foremost because of the classic ASM #41-43 and his appearances in the 60's cartoon, but he went on to appear in the Hulk more often (and even faced him in the Defenders). That’s a good one. Always liked the Rhino more as a Spider-man enemy because the Hulk had plenty of strong, dumb guys to fight but Marvel disagreed. Spidey-wise, the Sandman was a member of the Frightful Four who sometimes fought the Hulk for a good long time, and Stan etc. tried to farm Electro out as a Daredevil villain for a hot sec. The OTHER thing I really wanted to mention in this thread was that Electro was one of the first Spidey villains but didn’t make a second appearance (in the main title) till Amazing Spider-Man 82.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Dec 8, 2023 23:32:14 GMT -5
Should also mention the Poison Ivy story in Secret Origins - which, again, because it didn’t have Batman in it. Written by some British guy named Neil. I think that was where it was established that her gimmick wasn’t just plants but ecology. Still the tone of her appearance there was more Vertigo/horror and I suspect you guys are right that BTAS established her modern attitude and gave her a sense of humor.
Follow-up question: When did she turn green? I’m thinking it was that P. Craig Russel story.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Dec 8, 2023 20:01:18 GMT -5
Isn't she more associated with Batman because of the Batman tv show from the 60s? I think I once read that they wanted more female villains and she was specifically created to answer that call. Poison Ivy never appeared on the 60s TV show. She was a major villain in Batman: The Animated Series.
I’ve been reading a lot about Poison Ivy lately, and I don’t have a source, but I also vaguely remember reading that Poison Ivy (and Tiger Moth!) was created to give the TV show more female villains. Poison Ivy honestly feels like a generic Batman ‘66 villain in her first appearance. TBH - and this is not an original thought - Batman 181 coulda replaced P. I. with Catwoman without changing the narrative at all.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Dec 8, 2023 19:47:42 GMT -5
Poison Ivy never appeared on the 60s TV show. She was a major villain in Batman: The Animated Series.
Yeah, including cameos she appeared in like a dozen episodes plus a couple more in the later "New Batman Adventure" season. Plus she was one of the main bad guys in the live action "Batman and Robin" movie played by Uma Thurman. The 90's was totally the rise of Poison Ivy as a major Batman villain. Oh yeah it probably was the cartoon that promoted her to major villain status. I didn’t think of that. Same thing for Mister Freeze.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Dec 8, 2023 18:36:35 GMT -5
Huh. The timeline checks out and the first Poison Ivy story did introduce four female villains.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Dec 8, 2023 18:11:03 GMT -5
At least pre-Crisis, and even up to 1990 or so when there were eleventy-jillion Batman titles and I lost track. She debuted in a Batman comic (along with Tiger Moth!) but got her origin in a Wonder Woman story and mostly showed up on villain teams like the Injustice League, the Suicide Squad and the anti-Super-Friends where she had a kid sidekick wait did I dream that? Now-a-days she’s mostly a Harley Quinn “supporting” character. Only ended up fighting Batman on her own a small handful of times.
BUT she’s still considered primarily a Batman villain, although that’s not been the case since 1966.
So in this thread name characters who are associated with a specific hero but probably shouldn’t be.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Dec 8, 2023 3:33:23 GMT -5
That makes sense - I was thinking how MTU was absolutely considered a spin-off at the time but Brave and the Bold wasn’t, which is strange. That also means that “Amazing Spider-Man Annual” (by Steve Ditko, natch) wouldn’t count.
Also Super-villain team-up would count…. Would the Silver Age Sub-Mariner fall under statute of limitations or would his Golden Age strip make him ineligible?
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