|
Post by tex1272 on Oct 14, 2015 16:26:08 GMT -5
The SW Insider picked this one for their "Best of" as well.
One line of dialog in issue #45 could have cleared the light saber issue. I remember a reader asked about in the Star Words column and the reply was something like, "Well two light sabers are better than one".
|
|
Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,069
|
Post by Confessor on Oct 14, 2015 18:00:37 GMT -5
Wow, I'm genuinely shocked by the mostly negative review. Issue #49 has always been one of my favorite issues of the original Marvel series, and I figured that was the general consensus among anyone who's ever read it. I would have loved to see Mike Barr come back and do more issues of the series, and it's a shame he was never asked to. Well, let's not forget that these reviews are simply one person's opinion. It's just that they happen to be mine. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) But I hope that I've adequately outlined what it is that I disliked so much about Barr's script. The overall plot isn't a bad one, but the really off-kilter characterisations of Luke and Leia, along with the pretty big continuity problems surrounding Jedidiah's backstory -- and then there's the name of Jedidiah himself(!) -- along with all the other niggling little problems prove far too distracting to me to really rate this issue very highly. The script quality here is far from the heights that we've gotten used to with Archie Goodwin. As noted though, the artwork and look of this issue is head and shoulders above the usual Carmine Infantino fare that we've been getting. But ultimately, the artwork alone isn't enough to save this issue from a low rating.
|
|
Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,069
|
Post by Confessor on Oct 14, 2015 18:15:38 GMT -5
The SW Insider picked this one for their "Best of" as well. Yeah, but then again, they also picked "The Third Law" as a Top 10 best issue from the series! ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png) One line of dialog in issue #45 could have cleared the light saber issue. I remember a reader asked about in the Star Words column and the reply was something like, "Well two light sabers are better than one". You're absolutely correct that the entire lightsaber continuity problem could've been avoided with one brilliantly inventive explanation in the dialogue of issue #45. But the truth of the matter, at least as far as I believe it, is that Archie Goodwin simply goofed and had Luke brandishing his lightsaber, without stopping to realise that he had lost it. On the letters page of issue #48, Danny Fingeroth notes that the comic had been inundated with letters from angry readers demanding to know why Luke still had his lightsaber. He offers the explanation that Luke was able to draw his saber back up the Cloud City reactor shaft towards him as he fell down it, in a manner similar to how he levitated the weapon into his hand in the Wampa's cave on Hoth. While that sounds like a bit of a contrived answer, I suppose such a feat might be possible for Luke, especially with his newly improved Jedi skills, following Yoda's training on Dagobah. However, Fingeroth also admits that the real reason that Luke still has a lightsaber is because Marvel simply didn't want to tell stories in which Luke was without his signature weapon. Edit: As noted in my review though, I won't be listing the presence of Luke's lightsaber as a continuity error for every issue of the comic between now and the ROTJ adaptation. I've made note of it twice now and that's enough, I feel. Besides, since it has now been established in the post-ESB comic continuity that Luke is still in possession of his saber, what were subsequent writers supposed to do about it? Take it away again? Well, then that would also be a continuity problem now that we've seen him with it.
|
|
|
Post by glenngreenberg on Oct 15, 2015 0:25:08 GMT -5
I'm telling ya, go with my explanation: Luke built the new saber while he was recuperating on the medical cruiser after his Cloud City duel with Darth Vader. The saber Luke uses from issues 45-on is the very same saber he's using in RETURN OF THE JEDI. Just as Luke's first saber was rarely drawn (or colored) correctly in the pre-EMPIRE STRIKES BACK issues, so too was the second saber. Eventually, Marvel got it correct. But it took a while. There! Now don't you feel better?
|
|
rossn
Full Member
Posts: 173
|
Post by rossn on Oct 15, 2015 8:42:17 GMT -5
Another great review Confessor. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) One thing I like about the Marvel run is there willingness to use female villains, something which the films never quite managed (though the later Expanded Universe did - Ysanne Isard was a great villainess.) Here we see Captain Traal and a few issues back we saw a woman commanding a whole fleet. Plus of course Kharys the Majestrix of Skye! I liked #49 a bit more than you did, but yeah Jedidiah's backstory is strange. Marvel sometimes seemed to have difficulty deciding how powerful and omnipresent the Empire actually is. Back in #30 ( A Princess Alone!) the Empire controlled every aspect of life on a planet, yet in other issues it seems so weak that it has to obey local laws, or at least appear to, to get anything done at all. #36 ( Red Queen Rising!) is a great example of this were the Empire has to compete openly with its own rebels for diplomatic presence!
|
|
Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,069
|
Post by Confessor on Oct 15, 2015 8:45:22 GMT -5
I'm telling ya, go with my explanation: Luke built the new saber while he was recuperating on the medical cruiser after his Cloud City duel with Darth Vader. The saber Luke uses from issues 45-on is the very same saber he's using in RETURN OF THE JEDI. Just as Luke's first saber was rarely drawn (or colored) correctly in the pre-EMPIRE STRIKES BACK issues, so too was the second saber. Eventually, Marvel got it correct. But it took a while. There! Now don't you feel better? Ha ha....it's a neat explanation, Glenn. But personally, I can't accept anything other than the "Luke built his new saber in Ben Kenobi's old homestead on Tatooine just prior to the events of ROTJ". Ever since I first read that scene in the ROTJ novelization back in 1983, that little nugget of continuity (or deleted scene, call it what you will) has been accepted canon for me. At this late stage, there's no going back for me, my friend. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) If we are talking Marvel "No-Prize" explanations though, I think the one I like best is that the Rebel Alliance had an old lightsaber from the days of the Old Republic just laying around somewhere. Of course, that doesn't explain why Luke then needed to build a new one...although if I rememeber correctly, wasn't building your own lightsaber one of the final stages of Jedi training? Anyway, I think that tex1272 got it spot on when he said that the whole continuity problem could've been avoided, with one line of dialogue explaining where it came from.
|
|
Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,069
|
Post by Confessor on Oct 15, 2015 10:08:18 GMT -5
One thing I like about the Marvel run is there willingness to use female villains, something which the films never quite managed (though the later Expanded Universe did - Ysanne Isard was a great villainess.) Here we see Captain Traal and a few issues back we saw a woman commanding a whole fleet. Plus of course Kharys the Majestrix of Skye! Yes, good point. Marvel was very good at introducing strong female villains into their SW continuity. The examples you provide above should be augmented with Domina Tagge and Shira Brie/Lumiya. I liked #49 a bit more than you did, but yeah Jedidiah's backstory is strange. Didn't you think that Luke and Leia's characterisation was way off as well? Or maybe that bothered you less than it did me. Marvel sometimes seemed to have difficulty deciding how powerful and omnipresent the Empire actually is. Back in #30 ( A Princess Alone!) the Empire controlled every aspect of life on a planet, yet in other issues it seems so weak that it has to obey local laws, or at least appear to, to get anything done at all. #36 ( Red Queen Rising!) is a great example of this were the Empire has to compete openly with its own rebels for diplomatic presence! That's an interesting observation, rossn, and not one that had ever occurred to me. However, I think it's more a case of the way in which the Empire rules each planet or system being determined by a number of political, industrial or logistical factors. For example, in the Marvel comics we see that the Empire has to tread somewhat carefully on the planet Monastery because the Order of the Sacred Circle wield such influence over the rest of the galaxy, whereas on the mineral rich planet of Metalorn, the entire world has been subjugated and turned into an factory planet for the Imperial military-industrial complex. Presumably this was because there was no compelling political reason to prevent the Empire from doing so and because the Imperial war machine desperately needed the resources that Metalorn could provide. Even in the films we see different levels of "occupation". For instance, we see that the Empire's presence on a remote, outer-rim planet like Tatooine is relatively small, yet it is a lot stronger elsewhere (like on Kashyyk, as seen in the infamous Holiday Special, where the Wookiees provide valuable slave labour for the Empire).
|
|
rossn
Full Member
Posts: 173
|
Post by rossn on Oct 17, 2015 6:08:31 GMT -5
Those are some good points Confessor. I guess I think Marvel had gone to the well of 'influential planet the Empire must walk on eggshells not to offend' a little too often for my tastes - we saw something similar with the Wheel, then with Monastery and now with Aargau. I think I'd have prefered a backwater like Tatooine where the Empire has a loose presence because the world is too unimportant.
And yes reading the issue again Luke did come across as unlikable and Leia a little strange. The Courtship of Princess Leia, one of the EU novels has 'Leia is courted by a handsome space prince' done much better, though it helps that Han is actually in that story.
|
|
Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,069
|
Post by Confessor on Oct 17, 2015 14:58:10 GMT -5
And yes reading the issue again Luke did come across as unlikable and Leia a little strange. The Courtship of Princess Leia, one of the EU novels has 'Leia is courted by a handsome space prince' done much better, though it helps that Han is actually in that story. I never read that book. After loving the Thrawn trilogy, I was disappointed with The Truce at Bakura and when I picked up The Courtship of Princess Leia in the book shop, I thought the synopsis on the back cover made it sound like Mills & Boon in space! ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png) Needless to say, I passed the book by. Edit: I just thought, I'm not sure an American would get the Mills & Boon reference, so here's a helpful link... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mills_%26_Boon
|
|
rossn
Full Member
Posts: 173
|
Post by rossn on Oct 18, 2015 5:29:44 GMT -5
And yes reading the issue again Luke did come across as unlikable and Leia a little strange. The Courtship of Princess Leia, one of the EU novels has 'Leia is courted by a handsome space prince' done much better, though it helps that Han is actually in that story. I never read that book. After loving the Thrawn trilogy, I was disappointed with The Truce at Bakura and when I picked up The Courtship of Princess Leia in the book shop, I thought the synopsis on the back cover made it sound like Mills & Boon in space! ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png) Needless to say, I passed the book by. Edit: I just thought, I'm not sure an American would get the Mills & Boon reference, so here's a helpful link... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mills_%26_BoonI'm Irish not American and I get the reference! Courtship has a strong streak of romance to it; it is the story were Han wins a planet in a sabaac game for Leia after all, but there is a lot of action and humour to it. It isn't my favourite book in the series - I love the Thrawn books more - but it is fun. Speaking of the Star Wars currently I'm re-reading Tales From Jabba's Palace (the set of short stories set in... well Jabba the Hutt's palace.) If you can find a cheap copy somewhere it is worth it to see a recognisably Star Wars setting from different viewpoints.
|
|
|
Post by Roquefort Raider on Oct 18, 2015 7:55:06 GMT -5
I'm telling ya, go with my explanation: Luke built the new saber while he was recuperating on the medical cruiser after his Cloud City duel with Darth Vader. The saber Luke uses from issues 45-on is the very same saber he's using in RETURN OF THE JEDI. Just as Luke's first saber was rarely drawn (or colored) correctly in the pre-EMPIRE STRIKES BACK issues, so too was the second saber. Eventually, Marvel got it correct. But it took a while. There! Now don't you feel better? Ha ha....it's a neat explanation, Glenn. But personally, I can't accept anything other than the "Luke built his new saber in Ben Kenobi's old homestead on Tatooine just prior to the events of ROTJ". Ever since I first read that scene in the ROTJ novelization back in 1983, that little nugget of continuity (or deleted scene, call it what you will) has been accepted canon for me. At this late stage, there's no going back for me, my friend. Let me try for a no-prize, Confessor. Luke built a new lightsabre (blue bladed) while recovering after the events from The Empire Strikes Back, used it in the comic for a couple of years, and then lost it again shortly prior to Return of the Jedi... necessitating his building a third one (the green bladed one) in Ben Kenobi's hut. I dislike the Marvel lettercol explanation of Luke levitating his weapon back from the air shaft on Bespin... first he had plenty of other things to occupy his attention at the time, and second we saw in the movie that he didn't have the sabre on his person while dangling from that antenna. Besides, if he had recovered his original weapon, why change for a new model in time for RotJ? (Of course, the real explanation is as stated in your comments: Marvel just wanted to have Luke keep using a lightsabre, which is perfectly understandable!)
|
|
Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,069
|
Post by Confessor on Oct 18, 2015 8:35:21 GMT -5
I never read that book. After loving the Thrawn trilogy, I was disappointed with The Truce at Bakura and when I picked up The Courtship of Princess Leia in the book shop, I thought the synopsis on the back cover made it sound like Mills & Boon in space! ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png) Needless to say, I passed the book by. Edit: I just thought, I'm not sure an American would get the Mills & Boon reference, so here's a helpful link... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mills_%26_BoonI'm Irish not American and I get the reference! Courtship has a strong streak of romance to it; it is the story were Han wins a planet in a sabaac game for Leia after all, but there is a lot of action and humour to it. It isn't my favourite book in the series - I love the Thrawn books more - but it is fun. Speaking of the Star Wars currently I'm re-reading Tales From Jabba's Palace (the set of short stories set in... well Jabba the Hutt's palace.) If you can find a cheap copy somewhere it is worth it to see a recognisably Star Wars setting from different viewpoints. Ha! Serves me right for assuming that you were American. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) The vast majority of posters here are. I'm from the UK myself, south east England...just outside of London. I think I've read bits of Tales From Jabba's Palace. I'm pretty sure a friend of mine had it years ago and I read two or three of the short stories in it. Isn't there a story about Boba Fett trying to put the moves on Leia in her metal bikini? I seem to remember him trying to coerce her into having sex with him and she says something along the lines of, "if you touch me, one of us won't be leaving this room alive." Just a vague memory I have of it.
|
|
|
Post by tex1272 on Oct 18, 2015 8:37:37 GMT -5
Hey Confessor! Loving the reviews of the main run. Aren't there some UK EMPIRE STRIKES BACK WEEKLY reviews coming up soon?
|
|
Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,069
|
Post by Confessor on Oct 18, 2015 8:45:55 GMT -5
Ha ha....it's a neat explanation, Glenn. But personally, I can't accept anything other than the "Luke built his new saber in Ben Kenobi's old homestead on Tatooine just prior to the events of ROTJ". Ever since I first read that scene in the ROTJ novelization back in 1983, that little nugget of continuity (or deleted scene, call it what you will) has been accepted canon for me. At this late stage, there's no going back for me, my friend. Let me try for a no-prize, Confessor. Luke built a new lightsabre (blue bladed) while recovering after the events from The Empire Strikes Back, used it in the comic for a couple of years, and then lost it again shortly prior to Return of the Jedi... necessitating his building a third one (the green bladed one) in Ben Kenobi's hut. I dislike the Marvel lettercol explanation of Luke levitating his weapon back from the air shaft on Bespin... first he had plenty of other things to occupy his attention at the time, and second we saw in the movie that he didn't have the sabre on his person while dangling from that antenna. Besides, if he had recovered his original weapon, why change for a new model in time for RotJ? (Of course, the real explanation is as stated in your comments: Marvel just wanted to have Luke keep using a lightsabre, which is perfectly understandable!) That's certainly a plausible enough explanation of the lightsaber problem, except of course that there's no textual evidence in the Marvel comics to support him having lost it again prior to ROTJ. Mind you, there's no explanation of him having found or built a replacement after ESB either, so what the hell! It's funny, but it never occurred to me that there was a continuity problem with Luke having a lightsaber in these inter sequel comics back when I was a kid and reading them every month. Even when ROTJ came out and I read the novelization, which details Luke's constructing a new saber, I don't remember thinking, "oh yeah, the Marvel comics have had him wielding a lightsaber for years, when he shouldn't really have one." It was only in later years that I noticed the continuity issue associated with it. Agreed on all counts with your dislike of Danny Fingeroth's lettercol explanation. That doesn't hold water at all.
|
|
Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,069
|
Post by Confessor on Oct 18, 2015 9:02:01 GMT -5
Hey Confessor! Loving the reviews of the main run. Aren't there some UK EMPIRE STRIKES BACK WEEKLY reviews coming up soon? Yep, there certainly are. The first UK exclusive Empire Strikes Back Monthly story, called "Death-Masque", is cover dated September 1981, so I'll be reviewing that after Star Wars #51, in two reviews time. Then we get a whole load of UK exclusive stories in rapid succession.
|
|