Crimebuster
CCF Podcast Guru
Making comics!
Posts: 3,958 
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Post by Crimebuster on Feb 20, 2015 10:53:28 GMT -5
It might make my top Avengers covers list, though. I do love me some Kang.  |
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Post by berkley on Feb 20, 2015 11:30:43 GMT -5
Bowing to Shax's request not to complain about the choices, I will only say that I must abstain from voting since the obvious choice is not available. "Celestial Madonna" Take it up with the De Sinclair of 2014 who did not participate in the Top 100 Sagas event (where these nominations came from)  Yeah, but that was a CBR poll, wasn't it? I don't hang out there any more, so what do I care about their polls? |
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Post by DE Sinclair on Feb 20, 2015 11:34:34 GMT -5
Bowing to Shax's request not to complain about the choices, I will only say that I must abstain from voting since the obvious choice is not available. "Celestial Madonna" Take it up with the De Sinclair of 2014 who did not participate in the Top 100 Sagas event (where these nominations came from) Well played (though I honestly don't remember the event. But then last week is hazy too). EDIT: Was it on CBR? If so that explains it. It was due to my intense loyalty to CCF. |
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Post by berkley on Feb 20, 2015 11:42:52 GMT -5
The Korvac Saga was ruined for me because of the no name artist that drew the last issue. Although I'd agree that it was a letdown after George Perez, I wouldn't call David Wenzel a "no name". He's an excellent fantasy artist, and had already done some really great work in Savage Sword of Conan (Solomon Kane, especially) by that point. He'd later adapt The Hobbit with Chuck Dixon in an edition that's been a periennial best seller, illustrate the great Wizard's Tale for Kurt Busiek, and a ton of gaming and book illustration work. I wouldn't even say that he was the wrong choice to finish Korvac, just that Perez' work was an impossibly hard act to follow. Yeah, I don't think anyone would have been able to fill in for Perez on that series without it feeling like a let-down to me. I wouldn't say the Korvac saga was totally ruined because of the change in artwork, but I do think that if Perez had been able to draw the entire thing it would place a lot higher in my personal ranking of Avengers stories. Without that Perez artwork, it just feels like a decent, though somewhat by-the-numbers, superhero epic. None of Shooter's Avengers work has aged too well with me. The Nefaria story, for example, reads more and more like fan-wanking over Superman as the years go by; the Ultron story is memorable mostly for some great artwork from Perez (and inker Pablo Marcos, IIRC); and so on. I wasn't around for his second stint on the series, thankfully. |
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,871
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Post by shaxper on Feb 20, 2015 11:57:45 GMT -5
[Yeah, but that was a CBR poll, wasn't it? I don't hang out there any more, so what do I care about their polls? Was it on CBR? If so that explains it. It was due to my intense loyalty to CCF. It was an event I created at the old Classic Comics section on CBR a month before the shutdown. The nomination threads were lost, but I was able to save the results thread, which can now be found here. I'm considering bringing the event back with the hope that it would get more contributors at the CCF, but it was A LOT of work for me, so I don't plan to do all that again and only get ten participants. |
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Post by berkley on Feb 20, 2015 12:19:25 GMT -5
Sorry, 'bout that.
I think I remember this now ... I can never make up my mind about rankings like this, that's probably why I didn't participate. Thought it's easier when you're dealing with a specific series than comics in general.
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Post by coke & comics on Feb 20, 2015 14:43:03 GMT -5
And as I may have said before, if you consult my personal "favorite stories" list, you will see I have Avengers in the top 10 and lump Avengers #41-300 together (nerd points to those who know what makes those issues special) as one big story. I find it just too hard to separate. So much great stuff and so many great stories in continuous succession. I've never read another comic stay so consistent across so many issues, writers, and artists. So I recommend you read those 260 issues, plus annuals and a few tie-ins. John Buscema's first and last Avengers issues? Nerd points earned. |
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Post by earl on Feb 20, 2015 15:06:34 GMT -5
Starlin's Thanos saga is one of the best Marvel comic stories period. I don't particularly think of it as an Avengers story as really they only came in at the end, but by history and with the movie coming it's pretty much going to get filed there going forward.
Bride of Ultron/ Count Nefaria / Korvac Saga - This is definitely one of the best runs of stories in the Avengers series. I think it and Under Siege both benefit by being partially follow ups to earlier appearances. The Korvac Saga is one of the top Avengers stories.
Kree/Skrull War - This is one of the key stories of the Marvel Universe as it tied together so many disparate things into one cohesive story. Story seeds from this story were probably used in a couple hundred different Marvel comics going forward.
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Post by crazyoldhermit on Feb 20, 2015 18:58:16 GMT -5
I just realized I've never read an Avengers story.
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Post by spoon on Feb 20, 2015 19:14:11 GMT -5
I picked the Squadron Supreme story. Honestly, it's really a vote for that era in general. Most of my Silver and Bronze Age Avengers reading has been via Essentials. I have such a backlog of comics to read, that I haven't re-read comics much in the past few years. So while I really like that portion of the Thomas/John/Sal era, I don't have the distinct memory of plot points that comes with many re-readings. I chose Squadron Supreme over the Kree/Skrull War because I feel it fizzles a bit as it progresses.
Add me to the list that dislikes the Korvac Saga. It seems like it's building up to something, but then never does. I agree that the art drops off from Perez to Wenzel, and I think the twist ending is dumb. To me, most issues of Avengers up to that point are at least. The Korvac Sage might be my least favorite storyline from the series up to that point.
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Post by fanboystranger on Feb 20, 2015 19:28:09 GMT -5
Although I'd agree that it was a letdown after George Perez, I wouldn't call David Wenzel a "no name". He's an excellent fantasy artist, and had already done some really great work in Savage Sword of Conan (Solomon Kane, especially) by that point. He'd later adapt The Hobbit with Chuck Dixon in an edition that's been a periennial best seller, illustrate the great Wizard's Tale for Kurt Busiek, and a ton of gaming and book illustration work. I wouldn't even say that he was the wrong choice to finish Korvac, just that Perez' work was an impossibly hard act to follow. None of Shooter's Avengers work has aged too well with me. The Nefaria story, for example, reads more and more like fan-wanking over Superman as the years go by; the Ultron story is memorable mostly for some great artwork from Perez (and inker Pablo Marcos, IIRC); and so on. I wasn't around for his second stint on the series, thankfully. Oddly enough, I came across a dirt cheap used copy of The Trial of Yellowjacket at my LCS the other day, and I've been reading through a lot of that second run. Most of the stories are decent, but with the exception of a two-parter featuring Alan Weiss art, nothing really to write home about. If it wasn't for all the changes that he put Hank Pym through, I'd say there's not much there even from a historical value. (He also runs Moondragon through the wringer.) The book markedly improves when David Michelinie, Steven Grant, and especially Roger Stern takes over. I haven't finished it yet, but I'm loving the Avalon multi-parter that Grant has beginning in A 225. (I'm a sucker for Black Knight stories, though.) |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2015 20:47:34 GMT -5
Kree/Skrull War - This is one of the key stories of the Marvel Universe as it tied together so many disparate things into one cohesive story. Story seeds from this story were probably used in a couple hundred different Marvel comics going forward. Interesting observation here earl - I was thinking about this earlier today and I never, ever thought of that and I just wanted to thank you for pointing it out. I just love this storyline of the Kree/Skrull War. Good Call Earl. |
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Post by Calamas on Feb 20, 2015 20:57:20 GMT -5
If write-ins are allowed, I'll suggest "Nights of Wundagore." I agree. I remember there being a lot of fill-ins during this era. I not sure whether David Michelinie had deadline troubles or the gist of the Wundagore story was Mark Gruenwald and Steven Grant’s and they wanted to be the ones to tell it. I suspect the latter. And while I’m a big Michelinie fan, Gruenwald and Grant brought a different tone--a much more appropriate tone--when they got to the heart of the matter.For me, its emotional impact resonated. |
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Post by earl on Feb 20, 2015 21:44:12 GMT -5
I'd say Kree/Skrull war is one of the spoke stories of the Marvel Universe, it's really where the Fantastic Four and Avengers back story really start to intertwine. They didn't really do crossovers in the modern sense on stories but a big part of the 70s was plot elements moving from one title to another.
I kinda think Rick Jones is one of the most under-appreciated characters in all of the Marvel super hero comics. There is some cool things they could do with this character now, as he was just a teenager that got wrapped up in all this madness. They kinda write him out of the Hulk origin now, which is kinda sad. I kinda like the modern notion that he is a bit of a celebrity and I think that could be explored further in a modern way.
Deep Marvel Universe question: has there been any comics that created or explored any connection between the Mandroids and the Sentinels?
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Post by coke & comics on Feb 21, 2015 0:14:04 GMT -5
I just realized I've never read an Avengers story. ... |
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