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Post by gothos on Feb 19, 2015 16:31:24 GMT -5
We all know that continued stories were comparatively rare in the Golden Age; that most publishers preferred all of their genre-stories to be "done in one"-- in marked contrast to comic strips, which could spend about two-three months developing a single plotline.
However, in the Silver Age superhero comics, more than any other genre, started experimenting with longer primary plots with occasional subplots. The Ditko-Lee SPIDER-MAN is probably the first real exemplar of this.
In many ways this aim toward a continuing readership heralded the death of the comic book aimed at the "casual browser," but it paved the way for the unified story-arc that is meant to be collected in a trade paperback. And these, ironically, tended to drift away from the sort of multiple plot-threads we used to see in the 1960s SPIDER-MAN and the 1970s X-MEN. I'm not saying that this kind of plotting isn't still out there, but the complaint I hear from some fans is that "TPB plotting" has resulted in a lot of under-plotted sagas designed for that bookstore market.
Other early nominees for "multi-plotlines" might include Roy Thomas' AVENGERS, since he usually kept at least two plotlines going at a time, and Kirby's attempt at extending such plotlines over four titles in NEW GODS-- loose though the connections between the features were.
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Post by badwolf on Feb 19, 2015 16:47:35 GMT -5
I liked what Chris Claremont did in his prime on the X-Men. There were ongoing plot threads that wrapped up at different times, but there were also shorter arcs, one- or two- part stories, within those. I think this made it rewarding for both types of readers. It was less clear-cut where one story ended and another began than it is today. The Dark Phoenix Saga collection begins with #129, but Mastermind actually started messing with Jean a few issues earlier, during Proteus (collected separately).
I liked that kind of complexity. It made me feel like the Marvel universe was dense and that there was a lot to explore. And even during the days of having to hit the convenience store at the right time or miss out, it didn't put me off reading comics.
Contrary to what their marketing logic probably tells them, the current clear-cut story arc system actually makes me feel like I can drop the book at any time, rather than (or in addition to) pick it up! I think one of the things that's changed is that creators don't usually stay on a book as long as they used to. And they know this from the start (probably), so they write their stories for the short term. That's how it seems to me, anyway.
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,871
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Post by shaxper on Feb 19, 2015 17:23:08 GMT -5
I always felt Gerry Conway did multi-plotting best when he was on the Batman titles. He always had three things brewing at any given time and gave them all appropriate time in well paced bi-weekly installments.
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Post by dupersuper on Feb 20, 2015 12:27:19 GMT -5
I liked the multiple plots in the triangle era Superman books.
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Post by gothos on Feb 21, 2015 13:55:31 GMT -5
I liked what Chris Claremont did in his prime on the X-Men. There were ongoing plot threads that wrapped up at different times, but there were also shorter arcs, one- or two- part stories, within those. I think this made it rewarding for both types of readers. It was less clear-cut where one story ended and another began than it is today. The Dark Phoenix Saga collection begins with #129, but Mastermind actually started messing with Jean a few issues earlier, during Proteus (collected separately). I liked that kind of complexity. It made me feel like the Marvel universe was dense and that there was a lot to explore. And even during the days of having to hit the convenience store at the right time or miss out, it didn't put me off reading comics. Contrary to what their marketing logic probably tells them, the current clear-cut story arc system actually makes me feel like I can drop the book at any time, rather than (or in addition to) pick it up! I think one of the things that's changed is that creators don't usually stay on a book as long as they used to. And they know this from the start (probably), so they write their stories for the short term. That's how it seems to me, anyway. I'll echo your sentiment about the TPB format having a 'distancing' effect, and I miss the "ongoing soap opera" format that it has almost replaced. But I understand why the big companies are pursuing the bookstore market: the newstand market is all but gone and the DM doesn't show any strong signs of growth. Some creators adapt really well to the intensive "novel" format. I think Alan Moore's first two GENTLEMEN novels are much better structured than his SWAMP THING run, for example. On the other hand, Gail Simone seems to be the type of writer who flourished with the ongoing continuity-format seen in BIRDS OF PREY. I confess I did not read more than the first issue of her WONDER WOMAN, but that issue seemed flabby and unappealing, so I didn't bother to go any further. Her run on WW strikes me as something conceived to be short-term, so that she wasn't able to work to her strengths, IMO. |
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Post by Pharozonk on Feb 21, 2015 14:06:57 GMT -5
Multi-plot juggling is something Paul Levitz did best during his Legion of Super-heroes run back in the 80's. I'd say Levitz is one of the best plot developers in the business.
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Post by Paste Pot Paul on Feb 22, 2015 11:53:52 GMT -5
Multi-plot juggling is something Paul Levitz did best during his Legion of Super-heroes run back in the 80's. I'd say Levitz is one of the best plot developers in the business. Correct. Advance past GO. Collect $200. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 25, 2015 11:20:56 GMT -5
I liked what Chris Claremont did in his prime on the X-Men. There were ongoing plot threads that wrapped up at different times, but there were also shorter arcs, one- or two- part stories, within those. I think this made it rewarding for both types of readers. It was less clear-cut where one story ended and another began than it is today. The Dark Phoenix Saga collection begins with #129, but Mastermind actually started messing with Jean a few issues earlier, during Proteus (collected separately). I liked that kind of complexity. It made me feel like the Marvel universe was dense and that there was a lot to explore. And even during the days of having to hit the convenience store at the right time or miss out, it didn't put me off reading comics. Contrary to what their marketing logic probably tells them, the current clear-cut story arc system actually makes me feel like I can drop the book at any time, rather than (or in addition to) pick it up! I think one of the things that's changed is that creators don't usually stay on a book as long as they used to. And they know this from the start (probably), so they write their stories for the short term. That's how it seems to me, anyway. I remember Claremont being criticized for having many unresolved plotlines over his run. Sometimes you have too many balls in the air at one time. |
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Post by badwolf on Feb 25, 2015 11:24:56 GMT -5
I remember Claremont being criticized for having many unresolved plotlines over his run. Sometimes you have too many balls in the air at one time. Hmm, I can't think of anything that went unresolved, at least during the period I read them (although some certainly did go on for quite a while.) I think it's okay to "seed" stuff for other people to pick up on, but then there are things I wish weren't resolved, like the Mystique-Nightcrawler connection. |
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Post by tolworthy on Feb 25, 2015 12:38:12 GMT -5
The Fantastic Four at their peak *40s-60s) had three simultaneous plots: The Inhumans, the romances, and the villain of the month. Great stuff.
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Post by fanboystranger on Feb 25, 2015 13:54:56 GMT -5
Multi-plot juggling is something Paul Levitz did best during his Legion of Super-heroes run back in the 80's. I'd say Levitz is one of the best plot developers in the business. Back when he had a column back at CBR, Steven Grant wrote a column about juggling subplots, and demonstrated how Levitz was always developing his next lead plot (A-plot) from his subplot (B-plot). Grant said it was a staple of soap opera writing for radio and tv that worked incredibly well in comics, and while it has fallen out of fashion in comics, it's an incredibly useful tool in structuring a serial story that aspiring creators should study. He pointed to Claremont as an example of a creator who let his subplots get away from him because he didn't impose such a tight structure.
Very interesting column for anyone interested in the craft aspect of developing ongoing stories.
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Post by gothos on Feb 25, 2015 14:34:34 GMT -5
Multi-plot juggling is something Paul Levitz did best during his Legion of Super-heroes run back in the 80's. I'd say Levitz is one of the best plot developers in the business. Back when he had a column back at CBR, Steven Grant wrote a column about juggling subplots, and demonstrated how Levitz was always developing his next lead plot (A-plot) from his subplot (B-plot). Grant said it was a staple of soap opera writing for radio and tv that worked incredibly well in comics, and while it has fallen out of fashion in comics, it's an incredibly useful tool in structuring a serial story that aspiring creators should study. He pointed to Claremont as an example of a creator who let his subplots get away from him because he didn't impose such a tight structure.
Very interesting column for anyone interested in the craft aspect of developing ongoing stories.
That procedure is still pretty much how the prime-time superhero TV shows operate. Funny that a show like ARROW is closer to the Stan Lee pattern than most Marvel comics. |
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