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Post by wildfire2099 on Mar 8, 2015 11:31:42 GMT -5
Vertigo IS pretty much dead, IMO. With Fables ending, it's pretty much Astro City and a bunch of zombie books. All the stuff that would have been Vertigo back in the day (stuff like Saga, Wicked and the Divine, Southern Bastards, etc) is mostly Image now. A year and a half ago, I probably would have agreed with you, but Vertigo's been putting out some excellent books since then. Astro City, of course, but Federal Bureau of Physics is one of the best, most imaginative books on the stands every months. (As well as the most diverse.) There's been a bunch of strong minis, too, like Trillium and The Names.
Sadly, none of it sells very well.
I tried both Trillium and Federal Bureau of Physics, I didn't really like either. I mean, they weren't bad, but I wouldn't say good, either. Trillium was pretty standard stuff... FBP (I think it was sometihng else first... Collider maybe?) was OK, but too bizarre for me. Suiciders looks promising, I'll try that. The Names I remember seeing, but it didn't grab me, what's that about. I suspect low sales are do to the fact that there's alot more 'alternative' stuff out there, and frankly, other stuff is better. Back in Vertigo's heyday, it was THE place for non-superheroes... now there's Image, Boom, and IDW all doing great stuff. |
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Post by fanboystranger on Mar 8, 2015 12:01:48 GMT -5
A year and a half ago, I probably would have agreed with you, but Vertigo's been putting out some excellent books since then. Astro City, of course, but Federal Bureau of Physics is one of the best, most imaginative books on the stands every months. (As well as the most diverse.) There's been a bunch of strong minis, too, like Trillium and The Names.
Sadly, none of it sells very well.
Suiciders looks promising, I'll try that. The Names I remember seeing, but it didn't grab me, what's that about. I suspect low sales are do to the fact that there's alot more 'alternative' stuff out there, and frankly, other stuff is better. Back in Vertigo's heyday, it was THE place for non-superheroes... now there's Image, Boom, and IDW all doing great stuff. The Names is about a young widow and her stepson who are thrown into a massive conspiracy based in the financial sector. It's got a lot of Milligan's usual identity obsessions amd gonzo villains, but the financial angle makes it something different from most books on the stands.
I don't think it's necessarily that the other 'alternative' stuff is better, but that the creators involved are more familiar to most readers. It's such a conservative market, and most readers will only pick up things that they already know. Like I said, I'd put FBP up against anything from Image, but Simon Oliver is not as well known as Greg Rucka or Rick Remender, although I'd argue he's a far more interesting writer than both of those gentlemen (and I mostly like their work). Hell, if it was really about quality, I think Stray Bullets would be Image's top seller as it's their best book, in my opinion. (Prophet would be their second highest seller.)
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Post by dupersuper on Mar 10, 2015 9:15:17 GMT -5
FBP (I think it was sometihng else first... Collider maybe?) was OK, but too bizarre for me. It was just bizarre enough for me... |
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Post by impulse on Mar 10, 2015 10:49:01 GMT -5
I really enjoyed Sandman. I may be one of the few people who really enjoyed the early issues, but yeah, it got bigger and better once Gaiman found his vision. As others have said, the quality is very high throughout. Even when he experiments and gets pretty out there it's at least interesting. There is one character I absolutely hated by the end of it, but that's all I will say on the subject for now. It got slightly difficult to slog through at the end, but overall very high quality.
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Post by coke & comics on Mar 11, 2015 1:14:40 GMT -5
I really enjoyed Sandman. I may be one of the few people who really enjoyed the early issues, but yeah, it got bigger and better once Gaiman found his vision. As others have said, the quality is very high throughout. Even when he experiments and gets pretty out there it's at least interesting. There is one character I absolutely hated by the end of it, but that's all I will say on the subject for now. It got slightly difficult to slog through at the end, but overall very high quality. I think the first issue is excellent. So much happened that was just exciting. The next few issues seemed more familiar, but were excellently done. Sandman's first journey to hell and the imagination contest were phenomenal. The diner issue is truly horrific. And then turning the whole thing on its head with the Death issue. That Preludes & Nocturnes collection contains some excellent comics, in my mind. |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Mar 11, 2015 10:10:28 GMT -5
I think the early issues are just fine. And some are excellent. It's just that Gaiman wasn't entirely sure what he was doing yet or in what direction the book was going to go.
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Mar 11, 2015 13:00:09 GMT -5
Speeding along reading Gaiman's Sandman. I'm now in the middle of The Kindly Ones, about issue # 63 or so. Can't believe that I waited over a year from when the latest mini-series began, then read the entire opus-to-date, and will still be waiting for that damn mini-series to conclude and be collected. After I'm done with the last dozen issues or so, I'll get my hands on OGN and I will also be able to obtain from the library the Death Omnibus.
Is Sandman the greatest long-running comic book series? Up to now I would have considered Alan Moore's Swamp Thing as the ultimate standard. As far as the writing goes I'll consider it a draw. I think Swamp Thing has the edge for art consistency. I'm not a big fan of Hemple's work on The Kindly Ones (never warmed up to his MARS series for First Comics either) and I always thought Totleben's art was stupendous.
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Post by paulie on Mar 11, 2015 13:53:13 GMT -5
Speeding along reading Gaiman's Sandman. I'm now in the middle of The Kindly Ones, about issue # 63 or so. Can't believe that I waited over a year from when the latest mini-series began, then read the entire opus-to-date, and will still be waiting for that damn mini-series to conclude and be collected. After I'm done with the last dozen issues or so, I'll get my hands on OGN and I will also be able to obtain from the library the Death Omnibus. Is Sandman the greatest long-running comic book series? Up to now I would have considered Alan Moore's Swamp Thing as the ultimate standard. As far as the writing goes I'll consider it a draw. I think Swamp Thing has the edge for art consistency. I'm not a big fan of Hemple's work on The Kindly Ones (never warmed up to his MARS series for First Comics either) and I always thought Totleben's art was stupendous. Re: Swampy Art And Thomas Yeates... And Stephen Bissette... And Alfredo Alcala... And Rick Veitch... And Scot Eaton... And Phillip Hester... Swamp Thing had some major art talent for sure. I don't like Hempel either. I don't quite understand how he got this gig. Especially since Sandman didn't exactly have a lack of artistic talent up to that point. I'm thinking Dringenberg, Bachalo, Vess and Doran off the top of my head. Can someone explain what they were going for? |
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Post by fanboystranger on Mar 11, 2015 14:08:25 GMT -5
Neil loved Hempl's Gregory books and wanted him on the book. He also wanted to work with Teddy Kristiansen and D'Israeli, who had similiar minimalist styles. Basically, this was a means to get a year long story done in a consistant style on a regular schedule, something that wouldn't have been possible if they had gone with Zulli and Vess, etc.
I had a similiar repulsion to Hempl's art when I first read The Kindly Ones, but much like Rich Corben's and Ted McKeever's respective art, I've come to love it over the years. It's just pure, no frills storytelling, but there's also a personal stylistic vision there, too. It's remarkable in its simplicity. |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Mar 11, 2015 14:15:43 GMT -5
Speeding along reading Gaiman's Sandman. I'm now in the middle of The Kindly Ones, about issue # 63 or so. Can't believe that I waited over a year from when the latest mini-series began, then read the entire opus-to-date, and will still be waiting for that damn mini-series to conclude and be collected. After I'm done with the last dozen issues or so, I'll get my hands on OGN and I will also be able to obtain from the library the Death Omnibus. Is Sandman the greatest long-running comic book series? Up to now I would have considered Alan Moore's Swamp Thing as the ultimate standard. As far as the writing goes I'll consider it a draw. I think Swamp Thing has the edge for art consistency. I'm not a big fan of Hemple's work on The Kindly Ones (never warmed up to his MARS series for First Comics either) and I always thought Totleben's art was stupendous. I don't like Hempel either. I don't quite understand how he got this gig. Especially since Sandman didn't exactly have a lack of artistic talent up to that point. I'm thinking Dringenberg, Bachalo, Vess and Doran off the top of my head. Can someone explain what they were going for? My gut is telling me that by that point Gaiman had a lot of say in who was drawing what in the book. And that he structured the stories with the artists in mind. But that's being dredged from the way back of my mind. I'll see if I can find anything to confirm that in Hy Bender's Sandman Companion. |
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Post by badwolf on Mar 11, 2015 14:31:17 GMT -5
I love Kristiansen & D'Israeli; Hempel grew on me after a while I think. Actually, I had already liked his work on Breathtaker, but it was weird seeing him draw some of the Sandman cast at first.
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Post by fanboystranger on Mar 11, 2015 15:35:04 GMT -5
I don't like Hempel either. I don't quite understand how he got this gig. Especially since Sandman didn't exactly have a lack of artistic talent up to that point. I'm thinking Dringenberg, Bachalo, Vess and Doran off the top of my head. Can someone explain what they were going for? My gut is telling me that by that point Gaiman had a lot of say in who was drawing what in the book. And that he structured the stories with the artists in mind. But that's being dredged from the way back of my mind. I'll see if I can find anything to confirm that in Hy Bender's Sandman Companion. He did. In fact, the World's End stories came about because Neil wanted to work on a story with Bryan Talbot, one of his heroes, but Bryan couldn't commit to a full run. So, Talbot did the first and last stories, plus the framing stories in each issue. Then Neil picked other artists he wanted to work with to tell the individual characters' stories. |
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Mar 11, 2015 16:53:29 GMT -5
Speeding along reading Gaiman's Sandman. I'm now in the middle of The Kindly Ones, about issue # 63 or so. Can't believe that I waited over a year from when the latest mini-series began, then read the entire opus-to-date, and will still be waiting for that damn mini-series to conclude and be collected. After I'm done with the last dozen issues or so, I'll get my hands on OGN and I will also be able to obtain from the library the Death Omnibus. Is Sandman the greatest long-running comic book series? Up to now I would have considered Alan Moore's Swamp Thing as the ultimate standard. As far as the writing goes I'll consider it a draw. I think Swamp Thing has the edge for art consistency. I'm not a big fan of Hemple's work on The Kindly Ones (never warmed up to his MARS series for First Comics either) and I always thought Totleben's art was stupendous. I'd have no problem calling it the best mainstream assembly line style American comic series.
And gawd, I always loved Hempel. His storytelling was clear and his character communication - body language and facial expression - were probably the best of any Sandman artist (many of whom were very, very good.) Overall, Kindly Ones is my favorite chunk of regular Sandman - unless they fixed the messed up art in parts of A Game of You. 
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Post by fanboystranger on Mar 11, 2015 18:09:29 GMT -5
One more point about the Neil's say in the art towards the end of Sandman:
In the last few years of Sandman, Vertigo really had their choice of artists for the book because everyone wanted to work on it. The bubble had burst, and while working on Sandman wasn't going to get you rich through royalties, it was going to get your art into the hands of a very different audience than your average comic, ie art directors and editors for large publishing houses, magazines, etc. Some of the artists who dabbled in comics like Kent Williams found the prices for his fine art go through the roof because of his Sandman connection. Neil and Karen wanted to keep a certain aesthetic to the book, so they didn't just take anyone because of popularity. Neil also felt a certain sense of loyality to the artists who helped Sandman take a leap forward, many of whom he became close friends with, so you'd see return performances from Vess, Zulli, Bachalo with the Death minis, etc. He's still working with a lot of these artists today on the adaptations of his prose work.
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Mar 22, 2015 18:12:59 GMT -5
I have now completed my reading of the Sandman by Neik Gaiman. All 75 issues, the Death Absolute Edition and The Endless Night Graphic Novel. A wonderful reading experience. Even if an issue faltered here or there, it was so much more superior than 95% of whats on the shelves. Even read the first tradebook of Sandman Mystery Theatre even though its totally unrelated. No question the Sandman Saga gets the rarely bestowed Perfect 10 from me
After reading a masterpiece of this size and quantity, what the hell do you follow it up with? I'll be very particular on my next library visit
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