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Swipes
Mar 19, 2015 14:13:42 GMT -5
Post by Reptisaurus! on Mar 19, 2015 14:13:42 GMT -5
I don't get why it's Okay for Wally Wood to swipe and not Greg Land. And I probably never will. I'm with you here. I don't see any difference, morally. As far as I can tell Wood was blatantly and actively copying, and cheerfully admitting to it. I don't see lightboxing as any different. Obviously Wood was a vastly more skilled artist, but changes in methodolgy or even in payment don't matter to me. I can't imagine Wood would stop swiping if he was paid more. |
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Post by Cei-U! on Mar 19, 2015 15:22:29 GMT -5
I don't get why it's Okay for Wally Wood to swipe and not Greg Land. And I probably never will. I'm with you here. I don't see any difference, morally. As far as I can tell Wood was blatantly and actively copying, and cheerfully admitting to it. I don't see lightboxing as any different. Obviously Wood was a vastly more skilled artist, but changes in methodolgy or even in payment don't matter to me. I can't imagine Wood would stop swiping if he was paid more. Actually, I think he would have. The pride he took in his personal, non-mainstream work suggests that if he could've afforded to take less work and devote more time to each page, he wouldn't have had to resort to the shortcuts he turned to. Cei-U! I summon the might-have-beens! |
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Swipes
Mar 19, 2015 20:51:14 GMT -5
Post by Reptisaurus! on Mar 19, 2015 20:51:14 GMT -5
I've never seen this. What are your referring too specifically?
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Swipes
Mar 20, 2015 3:04:50 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2015 3:04:50 GMT -5
I know the Sally Forth and Cannon treasuries were self published, but I think they were reprint collections from military magazines, not sure though. He was definitely an indy pioneer though. And a key figure in the production of Witzend, which was a very early playground of renown comic creators to go no holds barred outside the confines of the typical mainstream rules they usually worked by.
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Swipes
Mar 20, 2015 5:43:07 GMT -5
Post by Icctrombone on Mar 20, 2015 5:43:07 GMT -5
I'm with you here. I don't see any difference, morally. As far as I can tell Wood was blatantly and actively copying, and cheerfully admitting to it. I don't see lightboxing as any different. Obviously Wood was a vastly more skilled artist, but changes in methodolgy or even in payment don't matter to me. I can't imagine Wood would stop swiping if he was paid more. Actually, I think he would have. The pride he took in his personal, non-mainstream work suggests that if he could've afforded to take less work and devote more time to each page, he wouldn't have had to resort to the shortcuts he turned to. Cei-U! I summon the might-have-beens! Sorry bro, I have to disagree. Once you start taking shortcuts, there's no going back. Plus, Kirby didn't take these shortcuts and he was pressured into doing more books than anyone. Artists then and now are in it for the paycheck. They aren't trying to create the Mona Lisa. |
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Swipes
Mar 20, 2015 5:53:22 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2015 5:53:22 GMT -5
Actually, I think he would have. The pride he took in his personal, non-mainstream work suggests that if he could've afforded to take less work and devote more time to each page, he wouldn't have had to resort to the shortcuts he turned to. Cei-U! I summon the might-have-beens! Sorry bro, I have to disagree. Once you start taking shortcuts, there's no going back. Plus, Kirby didn't take these shortcuts and he was pressured into doing more books than anyone. Artists then and now are in it for the paycheck. They aren't trying to create the Mona Lisa. Wouldn't cutting out images from newspapers and magazines to make a collage on a comic page be a shortcut and swiping. Kirby certainly did that. So be careful when throwing stones in glass houses. -M |
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Swipes
Mar 20, 2015 5:56:37 GMT -5
Post by the4thpip on Mar 20, 2015 5:56:37 GMT -5
And "Once you start taking shortcuts, there's no going back" is one of those things that sounds right at first, but then then you think about it and, nope. If you're paid lousy money and have very little time to finish a job, you'll take a shortcut even though it's usually not your thing.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2015 6:02:35 GMT -5
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Swipes
Mar 20, 2015 6:16:51 GMT -5
Post by Icctrombone on Mar 20, 2015 6:16:51 GMT -5
Sorry bro, I have to disagree. Once you start taking shortcuts, there's no going back. Plus, Kirby didn't take these shortcuts and he was pressured into doing more books than anyone. Artists then and now are in it for the paycheck. They aren't trying to create the Mona Lisa. Wouldn't cutting out images from newspapers and magazines to make a collage on a comic page be a shortcut and swiping. Kirby certainly did that. So be careful when throwing stones in glass houses. -M He was doing at least 3 books a month, I can cut him a little slack. As for the "Buscema slouch", I can't think of any artist that hasn't recycled poses. But even so, the slouch didn't look the same every time he drew it. As far as talent, Wood couldn't carry Buscema' shoes. |
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Swipes
Mar 20, 2015 6:29:54 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2015 6:29:54 GMT -5
Wouldn't cutting out images from newspapers and magazines to make a collage on a comic page be a shortcut and swiping. Kirby certainly did that. So be careful when throwing stones in glass houses. -M He was doing at least 3 books a month, I can cut him a little slack. As for the "Buscema slouch", I can't think of any artist that hasn't recycled poses. But even so, the slouch didn't look the same every time he drew it. As far as talent, Wood couldn't carry Buscema' shoes. So it gets back to, it's ok for artists I like to take shortcuts and swipe, but not for artists I don't like. Which is a far cry from... Sorry bro, I have to disagree. Once you start taking shortcuts, there's no going back. -M |
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Swipes
Mar 20, 2015 6:30:24 GMT -5
Post by the4thpip on Mar 20, 2015 6:30:24 GMT -5
Even though you're objectively wrong about that, let's just agree to disagree.  |
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Mar 20, 2015 9:19:52 GMT -5
Post by DE Sinclair on Mar 20, 2015 9:19:52 GMT -5
Both are great artists, so there's no need to take sides. We're all friends here.
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Swipes
Mar 20, 2015 9:24:03 GMT -5
Post by Slam_Bradley on Mar 20, 2015 9:24:03 GMT -5
Both are great artists, so there's no need to take sides. We're all friends here. But some statements are so silly it's really hard. |
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Swipes
Mar 20, 2015 10:32:18 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Icctrombone on Mar 20, 2015 10:32:18 GMT -5
Just tongue in cheek  but I do believe Buscema to be the better artist. Plus, I can't respect someone who bragged about swiping. |
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Post by Phil Maurice on Mar 20, 2015 15:40:59 GMT -5
Just tongue in cheek but I do believe Buscema to be the better artist. Plus, I can't respect someone who bragged about swiping. Some context may be helpful here. Woody was a troubled guy. By the time he debuted at Marvel, his work for Al Feldstein at MAD had deteriorated to the point that it was being consistently rejected. Alcohol was a factor, as was Wood's frustration at his lack of greater success. He also suffered from mysterious, chronic headaches which caused him to self-medicate.
His quote about copying, tracing, and cut-and-paste was a note he taped to his drawing board to remind himself of the importance of efficiency and maximizing his time and efforts in this low-paying work-for-hire industry. It was intended as a motivational tool for himself and likely did not represent his overall philosophy about his art.
Regardless of the quality of Wally Wood's later output, at his prime in the 1950s there were very few who could approach his artistic brilliance. His EC work alone marks him as one of the most dynamic, imaginative and skilled illustrators ever to hold a stylus. The rest (and there is a lot of it) is just icing on the cake.
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but I do believe Buscema to be the better artist. Plus, I can't respect someone who bragged about swiping. 