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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 4, 2015 14:15:20 GMT -5
Counterpoint: It was Werner Roth. I love, love, LOVE his jungle girl stuff, but his style is simply more suited to material that was a little more risque, darker, and sexier. He was wasted on post-code superheroes. My jury on his X-Men is still out, but I can't deny that I love me some Werner Roth drawn Lorna  |
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Post by Hoosier X on Jun 4, 2015 15:46:38 GMT -5
I'd like to make a bold statement: The problem with Silver Age X-Men, and we are indeed about 7 issues away from capital P-problems, was never Werner Roth. Mr. Roth was in fact well-suited to drawing teenagers. I especially like his Johnny Storm in this issue though Sinnott helped that quite a bit. More on what I perceived as the problems when we get there... (Hint, Nascent Roy Thomas, John Tartag!) I'll have to agree that Werner Roth is definitely not the problem with The X-Men as the series goes along. I've read X-Men #1 to #18 and think they're pretty cool, if you can overlook some pretty silly Silver Age shenanigans.
Then there's a short gap where I haven't read very many of the issues. When I was a kid, a friend of mine had a #19 and I remember that as being pretty solid. And I used to have a copy of #22 and I remember that as being OK even if seemed more like Nefaria's Crime Wave looked more like a job for The Avengers or Spider-Man.
And I've read The Essential X-Men, Volumes Two and Three, and that's every issue from about #25 to #66, and it's very uneven. I like the Factor Three storyline, but there is some bad bad bad storytelling in X-Men for a while. I won't get specific because we'll be getting to it soon enough!
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Post by Farrar on Jun 4, 2015 17:13:33 GMT -5
Counterpoint: It was Werner Roth. I love, love, LOVE his jungle girl stuff, but his style is simply more suited to material that was a little more risque, darker, and sexier. He was wasted on post-code superheroes. My jury on his X-Men is still out, but I can't deny that I love me some Werner Roth drawn Lorna Speaking of Lorna, I wonder if it was Roth who came up with using "Lorna" as the first name for a certain green-haired character introduced in X-Men #49 (penciled by Roth, albeit now over Heck layouts as Rob Allen mentioned earlier)...or if it was Stan or writer Arnold Drake's idea, as a nod to Roth's Jungle Girl. Lorna Dane by Heck/Roth in #49  |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 6, 2015 18:45:20 GMT -5
 X-Men: First Class #3 Parker/Cruz/Olazaba 'A life of the Mind' The X-Men wake up on a typical day, and Mrs. LaFitte is making Waffles. Scott and the Professor walk in, and Jean feels like something is odd. She's sure of it when the Blob stops by for some of those waffles. She takes Scott aside, and they walk by the Professor playing chess with Magneto. Jean leads him to a mirror, and they realize Scott's not wearing his glasses. Suddenly, his power kicks in and trashes the kitchen. That sets the Blob off, and it's on. Jarvis goes to get help, when the X-Men all agree with Jean something is very odd indeed. They realize they're all dreaming, and manage to trick the Juggernaut (who had been charging around in the back ground) to bust into the Cerebero chamber, where they wake the Professor up. Apparently he asleep using it, and chaos ensued. The end! Notes: -- This takes place alot later than the last one... there are Sentinel heads in one part, so it has to be AFTER the first Sentinel story (a three parter from 14-16). It likely takes place shortly after that, since Scott comments the heads are really big, since they much be fresh in his mind. -- When I first read this, I was thinking this was a Danger Room test, which would REALLY not make sense (since that needs Shi'ar..MUCH later)... I'm glad it's not... that'd just be silly -- Cerebero is shown here as a big empty room with a the device in the center, as in the movies, and later incarnations, as opposed to a primitive computer and head set as it is in the actual 60s comics, but I take this more as part of the 'modernizing' the story more than any attempt at historical revision. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 11, 2015 13:26:42 GMT -5
I was reading some early Thor today (upgraded my Essential to an Epic not to long ago), and it never occurred to me that while Charles Xavier was starting out his school.. this guy was trying to take over the world:  Good thing his mutant powers of telepathy and telekinesis didn't come with super-intelligence, or the Marvel Universe would have been in big trouble! I guess Cerebro was sleeping that day  . It does make me wonder why they didn't call Jean's power 'levitation', since Merlin has the exact same power (only much stronger). |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 22, 2015 6:22:08 GMT -5
 X-Men#14 'Among us Stalk...Sentinels' Lee/Kirby/Gavin(Roth)/Coletta Plot: The team is recovering from the battle with Juggernaut, when the Professor announce they all deserve a vacation. He stays behind, of course. The newspaper comes, and we get an editorial on 'the mutant menace'. The Professor is furious, and challenges the writer (Dr. Trask) immediately to a televised debate... which, of course, is immediately accepted. Trask shows the world his Sentinels, which are completely under his control and will save the world from mutants. They, of course, immediately go rogue. Professor X immediately works to save everyone on the sly and called the X-Men mentally. The Sentinels kidnap Trask and leave. One stays behind to fight the X-Men, and keels over, as if from a heart attack, which is kinda baffling. Professor X reads it's mind to find their hide out.. and they arrive to find some well hidden automatic defenses... to be continued! Rating: 4/5 Clearly, the coming of the Sentinels is HUGE... alot of good character development, too, but some weird stuff going on prevents me from giving a 5. --- Instead of having an infirmary (with beds) as the last time people were healing up, this time there are a variety of giant gizmos tailored to each team member to help their powers recover. There was no previous mention of Iceman, Beast or Angel's powers getting 'used up' in any way. For Beast and Angel especially, that doesn't make sense. I suspect it just some poorly worded dialogue. --It's implied here that the team live in the mansion, but maintain a home life... like being away at college... that's different from issue #2, where we had a commuting montage -- Warren is just noticing Jean and Scott like each other? Really? The angst on the relationship (and Scott's 'woe is me I'm a mutant' is turned up here. We also get the Professor reminding us he loves Jean, too. Some about Marvel and redheads... (Stan, I think...) --This issue, the paper is the 'Daily Globe'... it was the 'Daily Record-Bulletin' last time. Seems to me it should be the Daily Bugle.. since this is Marvel New York, and the Bugle likes front page editorials. -- When Hank and Bobby got to the Coffee a-go-go (massively overdressed for it, too), Zelda the Waitress says she hasn't seen them for 'months', so the time is still passing in close to real time. --Xavier is announced by the talk show host as an 'expert in education'... I guess that's his cover still. Why does anyone care, I wonder? -- The Sentinels themselves are very Kirby... they're all much smaller than future incarnations.. about twice the size of a man... though on a couple panels they appear much bigger. They don't seem to sense mutants, since they don't realize Xavier is one, despite him cranking his power as much as he can... they do notice Angel, but he's flying, so it's obvious. -- More power weirdness. Xavier is far LESS powerful than usual.. seems like he could have in the past just knocked out the studio audience, here he's struggling to keep them calm. Cyclops is totally worn out with one optic blast. OTOH, Jean nabs Warren from mid air and pins him to the roof of a moving train, then at the same time levitates herself out the door to said roof. She says she's been practicing... no kidding! |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 22, 2015 23:59:37 GMT -5
 X-Men #15 'Prisoner of the Mysterious Master Mold' Lee/Kirby/Galvin(Roth)/Simek Plot: The team use one of their 'called plays' to get Iceman and Beast into the sentinel fortress, but they're quickly captured. The Professor manages to disable the sentinels that are manning the defenses with his jedi mind tricks to get Cyclops, Angel, and Marvel Girl in. Meanwhile, Master Mold forces Dr. Trask to drug Beast to get him to talk, while Iceman is gassed and knocked out. We get Beast's origin, mixed in with the rest of the team fighting some sentinels. The Professor uses his astral form to try to get to Master Mold, but he is detected and zapped, and goes crawling back to his body. The team frees Iceman, but the sentinels overwhelm them using a gravity ray... things seem bad... to be continued! Rating: 3/5 Weird time for an origin flashback.. I'm guessing they had a 2 and a half part story here. I think it would have worked alot better with the origin story as a back up. I LOVE Mastermold as a giant super-sentinel on a throne.. great visual.. as is the harried and repentant Dr. Trask. ---- Interesting how the Sentinels are basically just robot soldiers that have been ordered to hate mutants... it's implied you could order them to do whatever. Their lack of initiative is also quite interesting... it seems similar to later when the X-Men are always tricking them due to their one track minds. -- Not sure why we needed to see a close up of Cyclops' visor opening and closing for the 2nd time in two issues. It was neat the first time, but it seems like filling space this time. -- I'm not sure about that 'glider' Iceman made.. looked much more suitable for sledding then getting blasted in the air. -- Professor X includes himself as part of the team here, and says so, rather than being the aloof leader.. which is nice. OTOH, he's worrying about Beast spilling secrets when the whole crew is in deathly danger,which seems a bit self-absorbed. -- Definitely seemed like a holding issue overall... I wonder if the story would have worked better as just 2 parts, and still gotten in all the cool sentinels in action. -- No more perspective/size issues here, they seem to have settled on their size. |
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Jun 23, 2015 1:30:52 GMT -5
Oh, hey, I forgot the Sentinels were that soon after the Juggernaut. This was the other arc that I really liked! Thinking about it, the Trask/Master Mold team-hatred is one of the most interesting villains in Silver Age Marvel.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 23, 2015 6:25:47 GMT -5
I agree! Trask realizing mutants aren't so bad after all was a great moment... it really serves to hammer home the whole 'protecting those who hate and fear us' theme that's just starting to emerge.
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Post by Rob Allen on Jun 23, 2015 11:27:25 GMT -5
I agree! Trask realizing mutants aren't so bad after all was a great moment... it really serves to hammer home the whole 'protecting those who hate and fear us' theme that's just starting to emerge. Yes, this is when the basic premise of the X-Men changed from "superhero high school" to "hated and feared outcasts". |
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Post by shaxper on Jun 24, 2015 9:04:11 GMT -5
I agree! Trask realizing mutants aren't so bad after all was a great moment... it really serves to hammer home the whole 'protecting those who hate and fear us' theme that's just starting to emerge. Yes, this is when the basic premise of the X-Men changed from "superhero high school" to "hated and feared outcasts". Actually, Lee and Kirby began that theme with issue #8, where, after Beast publicly saves a child from a falling water tower, he is attacked by the watching crowd for being a mutant and, in disgust, decides to quit the team and considers that Magneto might be right about mankind. Bold issue. |
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Post by Rob Allen on Jun 24, 2015 10:26:52 GMT -5
Yes, this is when the basic premise of the X-Men changed from "superhero high school" to "hated and feared outcasts". Actually, Lee and Kirby began that theme with issue #8, where, after Beast publicly saves a child from a falling water tower, he is attacked by the watching crowd for being a mutant and, in disgust, decides to quit the team and considers that Magneto might be right about mankind. Bold issue. Interesting! I've never read that issue, but will remedy that someday. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 24, 2015 11:08:10 GMT -5
There are a few hints here and there of it in a couple of the other eariler issues, too. While they do show the police and such as generally positive.... the general population seems most a bit scared and a bit negative towards mutants... Prof. X does hide his identity for a reason, after all.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 16, 2015 10:26:08 GMT -5
 X-Men #16 'Supreme Sacrifice' Lee/Kirby/Roth As the final issue of what should be an epic story, this one falls a little short. We start just seconds after the end of the last issue, as Professor X barely gets his astral form back into his body. Denied the chance to help his student directly, he forces a passing motorist to drive him back to town to re-examine the Sentinel that stopped during the fight in the TV studio. Trask has some angst about not wanted to help, but does it anyway. Meanwhile, the X-Men fail to break out, then decide to wait until Beast gets put in the bubble their in, then are about to fail again. In town, the Xavier figures out a giant crystal on the top of a building was blocking the signals that controlled the sentinel, so he somehow convinces the authorities to fly it by helicopter to the sentinels lair.. of course still maintaining he has no interest in mutants. That works, even though the crystal is hovering OVER the lair, and the transmitter and sentinels are both IN the lair. Back at the ranch, Trask grows a backbone, and which the chaos the crystal causes, sacrifices himself to blow the place up... for now. The X-Men leave him for deal and escape. Notes: -- The make a big deal about Cyclops calling Iceman a Man, not a boy.. not sure where this came from... it rang kinda hollow. -- Much like the Magneto fight, I felt like the team were made out to be kinda incompetent here -- It took me 3 tries to get through this without falling asleep... not a good issue. -- Power flux still abounds... Jean takes out a Sentinel at one point (with a condescending pat on the back), but then when they're trapped struggle to life her own weight, when she was flying around no trouble a couple issues back. Rating: 2/5 (probably a 1 if not for the historical importance) |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 20, 2015 18:44:08 GMT -5
 X-Men #17 '..and None Shall Survive' Lee/Kirby/Roth Plot: In the aftermath of the defeat of the Sentinels, the military shows up to clean up.. they are all pretty big X-Men fans, now. Beast, Iceman and Cyclops are hustled off to the hospital, while the Professor does his best to make sure he's thought of as only a 'passing aquaintance' of the X-Men. Meanwhile, Warren's parents are coming to visit the school, but the Professor has a Han Solo bad feeling, so he sends Warren to check it out. Because when the chips are down, send the weakest link! He finds an uninvited guest and is quickly defeated. When he doesn't return, the Professor and Cyclops check it out, only to be defeated in turn, as the shadowy enemy has traps laid for them. Back in the hospital, Hank has some superfast healing and is fine, but Bobby's delirious and in trouble. Jean decides they have to check on the Professor and Cyclops, and they get defeated in turn. The Worthington arrive at the mansion, and Magneto answers the door.. the X-Men in a metal sphere floating high in the upper atmosphere. To be continued! Notes -- The Professor on page three thinks to himself how great it is that defeating the Sentinels will help the X-Men's rep so much, and says he's 'Letting' the miltary general on the scene think for himself as a result. The ramification of that statement are so frightening, one really just has to take it as an exaggeration. --Lots of ridiculous Secret identity moments.. too many to list... literally a 1/3 of the issue is spent on it. -- Having Magneto in the shadows was done absolutely brilliantly... a bit more definite outline each time until the big reveal.. truly superior story crafting! -- Hank is downright nasty to Jean.. calling her a wench, implying she's a nagging worry wort, etc. Even if you imagine it with a light brotherly tone, it's pretty harsh... I'd be pissed if I were her! -- Magneto calls Iceman the weakest team member, I guess to reinforce the suddenly key characterization that he has an inferiority complex because he's younger. Have you met the Angel, Magneto? I'd put Mr. Drake #2 on the list behind Marvel Girl, myself. -- So not only has another foe been defeated by an outside source, but the X-Men are punked by Magneto again... do these guys ever win? If this was wrestling, they'd be the 'jobber' that doesn't get an entrance that gets paid to lose to the real stars every week. This time at least they were able to steal the credit from the deceased hero, since dead men tell no tales. Rating: 3/5.. The Magneto reveal is amazing, but the secret identity stuff was extremely trying... I split the difference |
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