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Post by Hoosier X on May 21, 2014 13:53:20 GMT -5
As many fellow CCF members may know, I'm a big fan of the Hulk, specifically the Herb Trimpe era of the late 1960s and early to mid-1970s. The Hulk's Golden Age is not as long as the best era for Fantastic Four or Spider-Man (both of which run for 200 issues (or more)), but when I get down to it, this era of the Hulk is among my favorite runs of any comic series ever.
The way I consider the run adds some Gil Kane and Marie Severin issues at the start and some Sal Buscema issues at the end, for two reasons. 1) These are great issues; and 2) the extra issues contain story elements that are intertwined with the main bulk of Trimpe's Hulk issues.
I start with Tales to Astonish #89 because that's the first issue of a storyline that introduces the Abomination in the next issue, and the Abomination is a major star in the saga. And I finish it at #200 because that issue finishes off the "Glenn Talbot in a coma" subplot that began several years earlier. (In #166, I think.)
And I read the Hulk for years after #200. Long after #300, I was still reading it. I remember when Glenn Talbot was killed, and I remember when General Ross killed himself. (And I remember the female M.O.D.O.K. Lucky me!)
I like a lot of those later issues just fine, but they don't have the same spark as the Trimpe issues. I also feel like the Trimpe issues have a certain consistency that makes them work so well as a single run.
I recently got The Essential Hulk, Volume 3, from the library. This volume reprints Hulk #118 to #142, as well as one issue of The Avengers and a couple of issues of Captain Marvel. I've read almost half of these issues before, in one form or another, but it will be fun to read some of them again for the first time in many years, and also to read the rest of them for the very first time. I just read #125 and #126 and they are some great, fun stories! So I decided to start a Hulk thread to write about them!
But this thread isn't just for discussing Trimpe-era Hulk! All your Gamma-grams can come here. What's your favorite era of the Hulk? Should the Hulk be gray or green? Or red? Should he be dumb or smart? Is the Ang Lee film as bad as everyone says? Why do you like the Hulk? Why do you hate the Hulk? (That last question is an open invitation to YOU, Scott Harris! You better have a good answer or HULK SMASH!) |
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Post by Ish Kabbible on May 21, 2014 14:07:08 GMT -5
I missed out on the Hulk's original 6 issue solo title. Probably first encountered him in his guest starring role in Spider-Man #14. But it was Fantastic Four #25 and 26 where he took on both the FF and Avengers that got me interested with him. My golden age of Hulk would be when he got a solo strip in Tales to Astonish and The Leader was introduced. This was the 1st time I encountered a comic series that had a continual cliffedge ending. I couldn't wait for the next issue to show up to learn what happened next. It was great up till the introduction of Boomerang ,who I thought was a lame villian for the Hulk. The rest of his TTA stories were decent but never rose to the heights of those first 20 issues
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2014 14:11:30 GMT -5
I am not a huge fan of the Hulk, I like the character, but at times the stories felt a little formulaic for me. Still, there are some great Hulk stories out there. One of my favorite Hulk stories I read early on was Incredible Hulk #109, but I encountered it in reprint in Marvel Super-Heroes #63  My pediatrician had it in his waiting room, and I was going every week to get allergy shots, so I read that book once a week for about 3 months straight, and forever wondered what happened next, because I never got to see the next issue until I was much, much older. A book I fell in love with much later was the annual with the unforgettable Steranko cover....  It was one of the first Silver Age non-Avengers books I ever got, and I read the hell out of that book. However, my favorite Hulk story still is one that has been retconned away, but I loved it as a kid and still enjoy revisiting it today... Rampaging Hulk #8 and 9   I got these as a birthday present form a cousin shortly after I had gotten Son of Origins, and read Avengers #1 for the first time, and I just adored this story. I reread and reread them til the covers came off and I could recite dialogue along with it, and never got tired of them. I later went back and got all 9 issues the of Rampaging Hulk mag (replacing the tattered 8 and 9) and it still stands as one of my favorite Hulk runs of all time. I have sporadic issues after they switched the focus on the mag with #10 re-titling it as just plain Hulk, but those early issues are what thrill me as a reader. -M |
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Post by Cei-U! on May 21, 2014 14:32:16 GMT -5
I'm a bigger fan of Herb Trimpe than I am of the Hulk, to tell you the truth, but I totally agree with you that HT's long run was the Golden Age of that series. Whether it was Lee, Thomas, Friedrich, Goodwin, Englehart or Wein handling the scripts, Trimpe always delivered intelligently structured layouts that, if not especially innovative, drew on a wide range of storytelling techniques to propel his narrative forward. His (charitably put) idiosyncratic draftsmanship could be distracting so the presence of strong inkers like John Severin and Syd Shores becomes critical to the aesthetics of his approach, though even inkers I don't normally care for like Sal Trapani mesh well with Trimpe. His version of ol' purple pants is definitive and my second favorite, surpassed only by the Andru/Everett version from Marvel Feature #1, and he drew the best big monsters and futuristic military ordnance better tha anybody this side of Kirby. As I mentioned on one of the old boards, one of favorite Marvel stories ever is "Heaven is a Very Small Place," and the story from #179, where Crackajack Jackson teaches Hulk to write his own name, isn't far behind him.
Cei-U!
I summon the big green galoot!
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2014 14:33:14 GMT -5
I've noted before that the title was pretty much the first Marvel superhero title I bought at least semi-regularly, starting circa #106 (Spider-Man I started a couple of months after that). Love that first year or so of the mag; the next couple or three dozen issues aren't exactly horrible, either.
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Post by crazyoldhermit on May 21, 2014 14:58:21 GMT -5
Heh, I thought this was about the Green Goblin's manpurse. The Jade Giant has always been my favorite Marvel superhero (Spider-Man is a close second). Like all the greatest superheroes he is a character that works both dramatically and comedically. The pain Bruce Banner feels is legitimate, yet Hulk's naivete and childishness is also a great opportunity for laughs. My favorite era of Hulk is Peter David's Grey run, with the Joe Fixit section being my particular favorite. That is one story device that only stuck around for a dozen issues but is hugely memorable and I wish it would come back. But I love all of the Hulk's incarnations, with the exception of Professor Hulk (Banner getting control over his life and becoming the perfect Hulk is a great ending for the character but not a very interesting status quo for a comic book). And my all-time favorite issue of Spider-Man is ASM #14, which has Hulk, Spidey and the Green Goblin (my favorite supervillain, who has never looked as menacing as he did on this cover):  |
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Post by Hoosier X on May 21, 2014 15:12:12 GMT -5
I missed out on the Hulk's original 6 issue solo title. Probably first encountered him in his guest starring role in Spider-Man #14. But it was Fantastic Four #25 and 26 where he took on both the FF and Avengers that got me interested with him. My golden age of Hulk would be when he got a solo strip in Tales to Astonish and The Leader was introduced. This was the 1st time I encountered a comic series that had a continual cliffedge ending. I couldn't wait for the next issue to show up to learn what happened next. It was great up till the introduction of Boomerang ,who I thought was a lame villian for the Hulk. The rest of his TTA stories were decent but never rose to the heights of those first 20 issues So glad you responded, Ish! I love hearing stories about what people thought about classic comics when they were kids and were buying them brand new at the drugstore or the soda fountain or a newsstand.
The Leader is one of my favorite characters and I really like the Ditko issues of Tales to Astonish in that serial where he menaced the Hulk for a billion issues in a row. But I think the last few issues are kind of weak, especially the ending. (And I also have never cottoned to how pudgy the Leader looks in those TTA issues in the 70s. It's odd to see him go from being a skinny, menacing big-headed mutant to being a slightly overweight, paunchy mechanic-looking dude with green skin and a swollen head.)
And the series is kind of all over the place up to #89. The Executioner issues are odd, but the Bill Everett issues are just amazing. The Secret Empire, Hercules. I love that scene where Betty and Hulk are in the cave. And I think John Buscema does few issues. They look great, but I don't they really fit with the themes of the Trimpe run, so that's why I cut it off at TTA #89.
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Post by Hoosier X on May 21, 2014 15:31:06 GMT -5
I've noted before that the title was pretty much the first Marvel superhero title I bought at least semi-regularly, starting circa #106 (Spider-Man I started a couple of months after that). Love that first year or so of the mag; the next couple or three dozen issues aren't exactly horrible, either. It's such a great era for the Hulk. In the 1970s, my first issue of Marvel Super-heroes was #54, reprinting Tales to Astonish #99, and I bought Marvel Super-heroes (except for missing a few because of the sucky distribution) up to the Galaxy Master storyline in Hulk #111 and #112. And I bought copies of #115 to #117, #121, #123 and #124 because the back issues were so cheap in the late 1970s.
I wasn't too keen on the Maximus the Mad issues (in #119 and #120), but everything else I've read in the Essential Hulk, volume 3, has been GOLD. I especially like #126 with the Night-Crawler and Dr. Strange.
I've probably read close to two-thirds of the Trimpe issues, but one of the reasons I consider the run so highly is that almost every issue is INCREDIBLE! Some of them are better than others but none of them are unsatisfying. I never feel let down when I read one I've never seen before.
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Post by Hoosier X on May 21, 2014 15:43:58 GMT -5
I am not a huge fan of the Hulk, I like the character, but at times the stories felt a little formulaic for me. Still, there are some great Hulk stories out there. One of my favorite Hulk stories I read early on was Incredible Hulk #109, but I encountered it in reprint in Marvel Super-Heroes #63 My pediatrician had it in his waiting room, and I was going every week to get allergy shots, so I read that book once a week for about 3 months straight, and forever wondered what happened next, because I never got to see the next issue until I was much, much older. I had this issue of Marvel Super-heroes. Oh, that Trimpe/Severin art! John Severin was probably one of the first comic book artists whose name I knew because I read MAD and Cracked before I read very many comics. I think I saw the Severin issues of Hulk and said: "Ka-zar look like Melvin of the Apes!"
I'm pretty sure this issue was the first time I saw the Savage Land, although I might have seen Ka-zar previously in the Marvel Adventure reprint of Daredevil #24. (I don't know which came first.)
A book I fell in love with much later was the annual with the unforgettable Steranko cover.... It was one of the first Silver Age non-Avengers books I ever got, and I read the hell out of that book. This is such a great book. I love those Marie Severin interiors! And trying to figure out which evil Inhuman was which. (It didn't help that one of them was just a shadow.) However, my favorite Hulk story still is one that has been retconned away, but I loved it as a kid and still enjoy revisiting it today...Rampaging Hulk #8 and 9 I got these as a birthday present form a cousin shortly after I had gotten Son of Origins, and read Avengers #1 for the first time, and I just adored this story. I reread and reread them til the covers came off and I could recite dialogue along with it, and never got tired of them. I later went back and got all 9 issues the of Rampaging Hulk mag (replacing the tattered 8 and 9) and it still stands as one of my favorite Hulk runs of all time. I have sporadic issues after they switched the focus on the mag with #10 re-titling it as just plain Hulk, but those early issues are what thrill me as a reader. -M I had all these when they were brand new! (But I don't think I bought more than one issue after it went color.)
Remember the Bloodstone back-up! And that amazing Shanna back-up story in #9! (DeZuniga art!)
The Krylorian storyline was cool but I wasn't particularly upset when they said later it never happened.
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Post by Hoosier X on May 21, 2014 15:53:23 GMT -5
I'm a bigger fan of Herb Trimpe than I am of the Hulk, to tell you the truth, but I totally agree with you that HT's long run was the Golden Age of that series. Whether it was Lee, Thomas, Friedrich, Goodwin, Englehart or Wein handling the scripts, Trimpe always delivered intelligently structured layouts that, if not especially innovative, drew on a wide range of storytelling techniques to propel his narrative forward. His (charitably put) idiosyncratic draftsmanship could be distracting so the presence of strong inkers like John Severin and Syd Shores becomes critical to the aesthetics of his approach, though even inkers I don't normally care for like Sal Trapani mesh well with Trimpe. His version of ol' purple pants is definitive and my second favorite, surpassed only by the Andru/Everett version from Marvel Feature #1, and he drew the best big monsters and futuristic military ordnance better tha anybody this side of Kirby. As I mentioned on one of the old boards, one of favorite Marvel stories ever is "Heaven is a Very Small Place," and the story from #179, where Crackajack Jackson teaches Hulk to write his own name, isn't far behind him. Cei-U! I summon the big green galoot! Isn't it weird how the writer seems almost irrelevant on the Trimpe run? I know which writers worked on it and roughly in what order, but I would have a hard time saying who did any particular issue that I liked. (I'm pretty sure Roy Thomas wrote #125 and #126, the stories I just read, but I'm not at all sure how long he wrote the Hulk.)
I like all the inkers on Trimpe's Hulk, but my favorite is Sam Grainger. Or maybe Trimpe himself! Or Dan Adkins. Severin was the definitive Hulk inker for me for a long time. Trapani is great, as is Jack Abel. Marie Severin. Sal Buscema. Who did I leave out?
I remember "Heaven Is a Very Small Place," but I've never read the Crackajack Jackson story. I think he dies, but didn't he used to show up as a hallucination or a dream from time to time?
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Post by Hoosier X on May 21, 2014 19:38:01 GMT -5
Heh, I thought this was about the Green Goblin's manpurse. The Jade Giant has always been my favorite Marvel superhero (Spider-Man is a close second). Like all the greatest superheroes he is a character that works both dramatically and comedically. The pain Bruce Banner feels is legitimate, yet Hulk's naivete and childishness is also a great opportunity for laughs. My favorite era of Hulk is Peter David's Grey run, with the Joe Fixit section being my particular favorite. That is one story device that only stuck around for a dozen issues but is hugely memorable and I wish it would come back. But I love all of the Hulk's incarnations, with the exception of Professor Hulk (Banner getting control over his life and becoming the perfect Hulk is a great ending for the character but not a very interesting status quo for a comic book). And my all-time favorite issue of Spider-Man is ASM #14, which has Hulk, Spidey and the Green Goblin (my favorite supervillain, who has never looked as menacing as he did on this cover): I only read a few issues of the Mr. Fixit run and I never cared for it. I did read the Hulk a little later when Peter David was still writing it, and Hulk was green again and he had Banner's personality and the art was great (the main reason I read it was for the art). I read it for a while. There was a group called the Pantheon. I liked it when I was reading it but I have never had any desire to read that run again. I think you're absolutely right about Professor Hulk.
Spider-Man #14 really is an amazing comic book. I think I read it first in the Marvel Treasury Edition in the 1970s. It's so CRA-ZEE! I love that movie producer talking about "The Monster from the Black Swamp in the Murky Forest" (or whatever the movie was called). And Spidey going to Hollywood as part of the Goblin's plan. And the Enforcers! (I always feel bad for the Ox because of Daredevil #15.) And then ... THE HULK for some reason!
Anybody's who's never read it should make arrangements to read it RIGHT NOW!
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Post by Hoosier X on May 21, 2014 19:44:41 GMT -5
Tolworthy linked to this article:
HERB SMASH!
in the Baxter Building Bulletins thread and I had meant to link it earlier but I forgot. It's got some interesting information on Herb Trimpe's Hulk career and his impact on the Hulk. The article also talks about Trimpe's best inkers, and I could hardly disagree with him more on some of his critique. But I still thought it was an interesting article.
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Post by Rob Allen on May 21, 2014 19:46:08 GMT -5
I'm one of the ones who started with the TTA series by Ditko. His versions of Betty, Talbot and Gen. Ross are still the definitive ones in my mind. After Ditko, both John Buscema and Gil Kane did some of their first Marvel work on the Hulk. After my 1968-70 hiatus, I quickly found the Trimpe/Severin Hulk one of the best things being published. At cons in the 70s I bought as many back issues as I could. At one such con, I unexpectedly encountered Roy Thomas in a hallway and quickly rummaged thru my purchases that day for something to ask him to sign. I pulled out Hulk #134, the introduction of the Golem. Roy seemed pleased that I had chosen it; he was proud of that story. I still have the copy he signed that day.
Trivia tidbit - from the Hulk's introduction in May 1962 up to TTA #84 in October 1966 (cover dates, inclusive), every story he appeared in, both his own and as a guest star, had pencils or layouts by either Jack Kirby or Steve Ditko - except one. What is the one Hulk story (not cover) in Greenskin's first four-and-a-half years that neither Kirby or Ditko had a hand in? I'll post the answer tomorrow, or more likely, congratulate the first person who posts the answer.
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Post by Hoosier X on May 21, 2014 20:26:40 GMT -5
I know! But I'll wait a while before saying anything to give everybody else a chance.
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Post by Cei-U! on May 21, 2014 20:39:31 GMT -5
Trivia tidbit - from the Hulk's introduction in May 1962 up to TTA #84 in October 1966 (cover dates, inclusive), every story he appeared in, both his own and as a guest star, had pencils or layouts by either Jack Kirby or Steve Ditko - except one. What is the one Hulk story (not cover) in Greenskin's first four-and-a-half years that neither Kirby or Ditko had a hand in? I'll post the answer tomorrow, or more likely, congratulate the first person who posts the answer. That would be the Giant-Man story in Tales to Astonish #59, art by Ayers and Reinman. Cei-U! Didn't even have to look it up! |
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