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Post by benday-dot on May 21, 2014 21:19:23 GMT -5
I'm in agreement with I think most everyone here.
I loved Hulk as a kid, and I still love the original conception of the character today. And there can be no doubt about it starting with Kirby, through Marie and John Severn and the pinnacle of Herb Trimpe through the early Sal Buscema period some excellent at has been lent to some excellent stories.
In my mind Hulk is one of the most interesting of Marvel's characters... so explosive and transformative, dealing with such existential torment, embodying both innocence (more than any other hero) and utter annihilation.
Once the child-like aspect of Hulk was dropped as a principle device I lost interest in the character, as that was to me ever so much at the core of Hulk.
Man, I still carry such sweet memories of devouring month after month the Len Wein era of Incredible Hulk. Those were some great comics.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2014 22:54:12 GMT -5
I've always had a tough time getting into the Hulk. The silver age stuff is enjoyable but kind of forgettable to me. I am not a huge fan of the Trimpe era. Trimpe is a fine artist but his stuff just doesn't work for me. Those teeth!
I've read most of the Bill Mantlo issues and I think those are my favorites. I thought the Crossroads of the Universe story was great. The title had gotten really stale and that story line bought some excitement back into the series.
I read some of the Peter David issues and they tended to be hit or miss for me. Entertaining, but he took the Hulk in a direction that I wasn't particularly interested in. Never liked the Joe Fixit or Professor personas. I'll take my Hulk savage or nearly mindless, thanks!
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2014 22:59:15 GMT -5
It's new stuff, but I am looking forward to the first 2 arcs in Marvel's new Savage Hulk book-a non-continuity book that just features creators telling Hulk stories they want to do... The first is written and drawn by Alan Davis and the second by Jim Starlin...and since it is titled Savage Hulk, I think it should feature the type of Hulk stories I like.
-M
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Post by Hoosier X on May 21, 2014 23:18:24 GMT -5
Before I give some longer reviews on Hulk #125 and #126, I thought I'd say a few words about the earlier stories in Essential Hulk, volume 3:
Hulk #118 - This is one of the first "old" Hulks I read because it was reprinted in Origins of Marvel Comics, which I haven't read for several decades. So I haven't seen this story for a very long time. But it has really remained strongly imprinted. Not so much the dialogue as the poses of Banner, the Hulk, Namor, Dorma and the scheming Atlantean woman Fara and her gigantic pigtail. (It's in black and white, but in the reprint, she was blonde.) Yeah, panel by panel, I remember this story vividly, from Dorma rescuing Banner floating in the sea, to Fara running to Namor to accuse Dorma of treason, to the big underwater fight (and the death of Fara when a wall falls on her) and then Banner unconscious on the island as Namor heads back to his kingdom. Great story (not as good as the previous Hulk/Namor fight in Tales to Astonish #100, but more than presentable). Great art by Trimpe inking himself.
Hulk #119 and #120 - The Hulk fights Maximus the Mad and the evil Inhumans (and the U.S. military!) in a small country called Costa Salvador. I had never read these issues before. Kinda fun. Not a classic of the era, but it's always fun when the evil Inhumans show up and you're trying to keep them straight. The Hulk doesn't have that problem; he just picks a foe and comes out swinging!
Hulk #121 - The first appearance of the Glob! I love this one! I used to have a copy so I maybe I have a sentimental attachment to this. It's pretty simple; the military chases the Hulk into the Everglades, the Hulk has a tantrum and dumps some radioactive chemicals into the swamp and a man-like figure made of rotting vegetable matter emerges! The Glob! Not an original idea, but I didn't know how unoriginal it was when I first read it (even though I knew about Man-Thing and the version in MAD from the 1950s). But who deserves a muck-monster more than the Hulk in his rogues gallery?
Hulk #122 - Banner makes his way to New York, turns into the Hulk and is knocked out by Reed's sonic blaster. A solid Hulk/FF adventure with one of the shortest Thing/Hulk fights on record.
Hulk #123 - With the help of the FF, Banner is cured of the curse of the Hulk ... sort of. He can control the transformation and he retains Banner's personality! It doesn't last until the end of the issue because the Leader has other plans. The Leader appears a lot in this era, and this is another great Leader appearance. (I will have a lot to say about the Leader pretty soon.)
Hulk #124 - With his Hulkish past behind him - or so he thinks! - Bruce prepares to marry Betty. But the Leader, with the Rhino as his powerful pawn, plans an attack on the wedding day that he hopes will leave Betty dead at the hands of the Hulk! Sal Buscema inks Trimpe in this issue and it looks great! (I prefer Trimpe inking himself, but a little variety never hurt anybody, especially when it's so good!)
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Post by Hoosier X on May 21, 2014 23:43:07 GMT -5
Hulk #125 - There's a comet heading towards Earth! And it's radio-active! And the only way to stop it is to send an experienced pilot to it and blow it up!
Banner and Talbot put aside their personal rivalry to face the current crisis. (General Ross is sidelined because he was wounded in last issue's attack by the Leader and the Rhino.) Banner flies the X-890 (with a nuclear warhead) to the comet and accomplishes his mission, but he comes back with an unexpected passenger - the Absorbing Man!
Banner turns into the Hulk and mixes it up with the Absorbing Man for the last few pages, and Crusher Creel is defeated because he tries to absorb the Hulk's power just as Hulk is turning back into Banner! And just as he does that, a mountain falls on him and crushes him!
Pretty cool. I've never read this one before. This kind of story is why I love the Hulk. Banner wants to help, but he gets in over his head and so the Hulk takes over. And one of the things the Hulk is good at is going a few rounds with a bruiser like Crusher Creel, the Absorbing Man!
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Post by hondobrode on May 22, 2014 0:07:16 GMT -5
Yes, a couple of years ago surprised me as I looked back.
Hulk, Thor, and FF, had really good long runs IMO.
I loved those first 9 b&w mags, and then Moon Knight in the color mags.
Wein's stuff was great, as well as Mantlo with Sal Buscema, but yeah, love me some Trimpe !
Loved Peter David's split personality take, which was great.
If you haven't read it, there's an excellent Hulk mini-series titled Startling Stories : Banner from 2001 by Brian Azzarello & Richard Corben. One of the best Hulk stories I've ever read.
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Post by Hoosier X on May 22, 2014 0:35:53 GMT -5
Hulk #126 - YES! I've never read this one before, and it's stories like this that give me confidence when I praise the Trimpe era of the Hulk even though I've only read about two-thirds of them. It just seems like whatever issue I pick up at random between Tales to Astonish #89 and Hulk #200 is pretty good to great, and I also know that some of them will be INCREDIBLE, like #126.
This is so trippy. Bruce Banner, unconscious after his battle with the Absorbing Man, is easy prey for a group of occultists who carry him to their mansion and perform a strange ritual in their zany chapel. They are going to send him to another dimension to fight the Night-Crawler, a bizarre mystical creature whose main purpose in life is to keep the Undying Ones trapped in their own dimension. The Undying Ones are the mysterious beings that the occultists serve.
(And apparently, Dr. Strange had tried to fight the Undying Ones because he's shown trapped by them early on. (This is when he was the Sorceror Supreme and had a blue head for some reason.) He's not in he story much.)
Among the occultists are Barbara Norris and her husband Jack, who you may remember from the Defenders! This is their first appearance!
So the Hulk is sent to fight the Night-Crawler, but he has decided to never turn to the Hulk again, so it looks like the Night-Crawler is going to just kill him. (And remember, the Night-Crawler is the good guy here!) But Barbara Norris has a change of heart about her role in the cult. When she protests to the high priest, she is seized and thrown into the Night-Crawler's dimension!
This dimension is very Ditkoesque. (Banner says it's like a Salvador Dali painting.) With misshapen lumps floating around in the air, like islands in a lava lamp. It's one of the strengths of this issue. Trimpe shows here that he could have easily handled a Dr. Strange series.
Banner was ready to die rather than change into the Hulk again, but he can't let Barbara die, especially after she risked her life to save him. So he concentrates and lets the Hulk take over to fight the Night-Crawler.
And what a fight it is! The Night-Crawler blinds them with the Sceptre of Shadow, so they fight in the dark until the Hulk hits one of the floating islands in his rage and it explodes and negate the shadows.
And you got to love the way that Barbara Norris doesn't get overwhelmed by all the King Hell Capers going on around her. She throws a rock at the Night-Crawler and destroys his scepter! (You can see how she's a perfect vessel for the Valkyrie.)
Anyway, somehow in the course of battle, they get shunted into the realm of the Undying Ones! The Night-Crawler attacks them directly. He doesn't have to win, he just has to delay them until the stars are out of alignment. Barbara Norris takes Dr. Strange's place in the mystic shackles. And Doc and Banner are transported to Greenwich Village.
Yeah, this is a good one! I feel like I've missed something by never reading this one before.
(I know that Barbara Norris eventually becomes the Valkyrie, but can anyone give me a summary of how that worked? I've only read The Defenders sporadically. (I hate to say that I didn't really get The Defenders when I was 11.) But after reading Hulk #126, I'm intrigued by the story of Jack and Barbara Norris. I'll look it up on Wikipedia, I guess.)
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Post by Cei-U! on May 22, 2014 7:38:13 GMT -5
Strange was not yet Sorcerer Supreme at the time of Hulk #126. That wouldn't happen until Marvel Premiere #10, following the death of the Ancient One. His "blue head" look was a holdover from the Thomas/Colan/Palmer issues of his first solo stories, wherein he adopted an illusory "new look" when using his magic in public. This Hulk issue is, in fact, the conclusion of a trilogy that began in the last issue of his title (#174) and continued in Sub-Mariner #22. As for Barbara Norriss and Valkyrie, their relationship began in Defenders #3. Trapped in the Undying Ones' dimension, Barb had survived by becoming the Namesless One's mate and third head. When our heroes separated them and brought Barb back to Earth, she went bat shit crazy. Next issue, under circumstances irrelevant to this quick summary, the Enchantress superimposed the amnesiac soul of the Asgardian goddess Brunnhilde onto Barbara and a super-heroine was born.
Cei-U! I summon the rundown!
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Post by the4thpip on May 22, 2014 8:57:11 GMT -5
It's new stuff, but I am looking forward to the first 2 arcs in Marvel's new Savage Hulk book-a non-continuity book that just features creators telling Hulk stories they want to do... The first is written and drawn by Alan Davis and the second by Jim Starlin...and since it is titled Savage Hulk, I think it should feature the type of Hulk stories I like. -M mrp, have you as a Conan fan enjoyed Planet Hulk? I found it quite Conanesque.
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Post by the4thpip on May 22, 2014 8:59:25 GMT -5
I remember when General Ross killed himself. Did he? I seem to remember that at the end of the issue that shows him holding a gun to his own head, he changes his mind. And he later gets injured when somebody stops him from Killing Banner at Bruce's and Betty's wedding, and then he only "dies" after getting combined with the alien energy being Zzzax (sp?).
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Post by Phil Maurice on May 22, 2014 9:16:46 GMT -5
Among the many, many Hulk stories I love, I think my favorites are his various battles with Thor, beginning in JIM #112. Again and again, an infuriated Hulk is shown to be unable to lift Mjolnir and I've never quite understood why. I'm definitely in favor of severely limiting the number of people who can wield the hammer and it's a far more powerful image to see the Hulk straining and roaring ineffectually.
But the Hulk is a hero, fiercely loyal to his friends, a protector of the weak and innocent. He's a bit of an innocent himself, lacking the character flaws that would disqualify many of the other Marvel heroes. That the world perceives him as a monster is no real fault of his. His destructive tantrums surely cause no more damage than Thor's epic maelstroms. Even Bruce Banner unhesitatingly risked his life to save Rick Jones (this is a moot point of course, since Banner is not Hulk. Hulk is Hulk). So what are the prevailing theories on the Hulk's unworthiness?
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Post by Hoosier X on May 22, 2014 9:39:46 GMT -5
I remember when General Ross killed himself. Did he? I seem to remember that at the end of the issue that shows him holding a gun to his own head, he changes his mind. And he later gets injured when somebody stops him from Killing Banner at Bruce's and Betty's wedding, and then he only "dies" after getting combined with the alien energy being Zzzax (sp?). I haven't read those issues for a long time. I must be thinking of that cover where he's holding a gun to his head instead of actually remembering the story.
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Post by Cei-U! on May 22, 2014 10:53:11 GMT -5
Among the many, many Hulk stories I love, I think my favorites are his various battles with Thor, beginning in JIM #112. Again and again, an infuriated Hulk is shown to be unable to lift Mjolnir and I've never quite understood why. I'm definitely in favor of severely limiting the number of people who can wield the hammer and it's a far more powerful image to see the Hulk straining and roaring ineffectually.
But the Hulk is a hero, fiercely loyal to his friends, a protector of the weak and innocent. He's a bit of an innocent himself, lacking the character flaws that would disqualify many of the other Marvel heroes. That the world perceives him as a monster is no real fault of his. His destructive tantrums surely cause no more damage than Thor's epic maelstroms. Even Bruce Banner unhesitatingly risked his life to save Rick Jones (this is a moot point of course, since Banner is not Hulk. Hulk is Hulk). So what are the prevailing theories on the Hulk's unworthiness?
I can't speak for every instance but in the case of Journey #112, an expanded retelling of Avengers #3, Hulk was allied with Sub-Mariner at the time and actively working to defeat, if not destroy, the Avengers. That would certainly make him unworthy in Odin's eyes. Cei-U! The prosecution rests!
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Post by Nowhere Man on May 22, 2014 11:31:52 GMT -5
The Hulk is my favorite Marvel character and always has been. A few years back, I was finally able to read a huge chunk of Hulk comics, thanks to those Marvel DVD ROM's; I read about the first half of Trimpe's run, but got impatient (since I'm a big Sal Buscema fan) and skipped ahead to Sal's first issue in 1975. I then read ever issue till the Byrne run (which I've read many times).
My favorite era (1975-1979) were the stories written by Len Wein and Roger Stern and penciled by Sal Buscema. When I think of the definitive era for the Hulk, those comics are what instantly springs to mind.
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Post by crazyoldhermit on May 22, 2014 11:38:08 GMT -5
Even Bruce Banner unhesitatingly risked his life to save Rick Jones (this is a moot point of course, since Banner is not Hulk. Hulk is Hulk). So what are the prevailing theories on the Hulk's unworthiness? Thats one of my favorite parts of the origin story that has been completely abandoned by the movies. Bruce Banner built a nuclear bomb. While the nature of the bomb was later revealed to be non-lethal, I have no doubt that in 1962 the idea was that it would be a legitimate atomic bomb. Bruce Banner designed a weapon designed to kill hundreds of thousands of innocent people, either in the name or science, in the name of patriotism, or for cash (or maybe all three). Yet when one person was going to be killed by the bomb, Bruce had to go out and save him. One innocent life with a face make him turn his back on his own weapon. And that single act of heroism completely derailed and arguably destroyed his life.
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