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Post by MDG on Feb 2, 2018 9:21:29 GMT -5
I would think loooooong and hard before exposing my children to the Silver Age Supergirl.  Weissinger was a genius and as an adult I appreciate his stuff with equal parts genuine respect for his creativity and horrified fascination. But he was not a happy or mentally well man, and that definitely bled over into the stories he edited. And the hardest thing for any parent to do is give the "Superman is a dick because his editor was kind of a piece of shit" speech. Weisinger wasn't involved at all in this story, and I'm willing to cut people miles of slack for stuff written 50 years ago, but I would strongly advise against reading this.  Really, whatever you do, don't read it! |
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Post by rberman on Feb 2, 2018 9:46:35 GMT -5
Wow... that was... really something! Summing up the worst part in a few panels:    It's really two totally different stories put together. The last 2/3 is a standard "two heroes foil a string of brief menaces from a villain while trying not to blow their secret identities" story. But the first 1/3 doesn't need superpowers at all to be "Dad is horrified when his young adult daughter blows off school and career to take up with a smooth talking rapscallion." That theme hits hard with parents everywhere, who worry all the time about the decisions their kids will make once they are old enough to disregard the parent's "no." The story goes loony when the mom-figure (Diana) gets sucked into the glamour as well, but that's a necessary setup for the two heroines to have an island romance turn into a James Bond deathtrap scenario. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Feb 2, 2018 11:32:51 GMT -5
Heh.. that's a great issue! Kinda reminds me of the Batgirl one where she pretends to care about her costume and breaking a nail and such in the middle of a fight. Great stuff.
The best part is that the bad guy could have totally just ignored them and done whatever evil plan he was doing, both 'Super-chicks' were too busy with them boys to notce!
See, I would totally have my girls read that, they'd see the silliness and enjoy it, and could lead to a discussion about how the world had changed.. much like back in the day when I had my oldest read some 40s Cap and we talked about the racial stereotypes.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Feb 2, 2018 12:07:12 GMT -5
Counterpoint: Everyone should read that comic every day! Yeah, I'm totally with Wildfire on this one. And, as the world's leading expert on team-up books, that is one of my very favorites. It's sexist, or at least it emblemizes the sexism of comics of the time, but it's mostly just goofy as hell. I'm sure that Haney (who didn't seem to care for non-Metamorpho superheroes much) was assigned Supergirl and Wonder Woman aswit team-up partners. And then he thought that since the protagonists were female he was basically writing a romance comic... Because what OTHER comics in 1965 had woman leads? So he basically wrote an issue of Career Girl Romance with superheroes and, because Bob Haney, did so in the weirdest way possible. Resulting in a classic for the ages! Or, to rephrase, the whole thing is just so adorkably goofy to be offensive, and it doesn't seem mean spirited or misanthropic at all. (While Weissinger's Superman was a lot of both!) Note: I love the CW Supergirl show, too. I like it as much as the early Jim Mooney stuff that Wildfire was reading.... and more than any Supergirl book that came after. |
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Post by Hoosier X on Feb 2, 2018 13:32:34 GMT -5
I would think loooooong and hard before exposing my children to the Silver Age Supergirl. Weissinger was a genius and as an adult I appreciate his stuff with equal parts genuine respect for his creativity and horrified fascination. But he was not a happy or mentally well man, and that definitely bled over into the stories he edited. And the hardest thing for any parent to do is give the "Superman is a dick because his editor was kind of a piece of shit" speech. Weisinger wasn't involved at all in this story, and I'm willing to cut people miles of slack for stuff written 50 years ago, but I would strongly advise against reading this. Really, whatever you do, don't read it!This story is AWESOME! I mean, it's not quite as great as The Brave and the Bold #78, but that's nothing to be ashamed of. |
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Feb 2, 2018 13:38:31 GMT -5
78 was Batgirl and Wonder Woman pretend to be in love with Batman because reasons and then actually fall in love with Batman? That was fun.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Feb 2, 2018 14:20:53 GMT -5
78 was Batgirl and Wonder Woman pretend to be in love with Batman because reasons and then actually fall in love with Batman? That was fun. Indeed it was! I actually have that one reviewed in this thread (when I did some Batgirl).. you can find a link in the index if you're interested |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2018 14:37:04 GMT -5
I loved those that Supergirl and Wonder Woman Story ... because it's has an AWESOME SPLASH PAGE in it ...  |
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Post by rberman on Feb 2, 2018 15:11:03 GMT -5
The first and last time Diana's bustier was called frumpy.
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Post by Hoosier X on Feb 2, 2018 18:45:18 GMT -5
78 was Batgirl and Wonder Woman pretend to be in love with Batman because reasons and then actually fall in love with Batman? That was fun. For me, it's the highlight of DC's Silver Age. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Feb 12, 2018 0:39:25 GMT -5
Actions Comics #266 'The World's Mightiest Cat' Siegel/Mooney  Plot: Superman is in town to amuse the ophans, and gives out little capes. Streaky gets one from Paul, and finds the Kryptonite-X again, so gets to be a super-cat again! Paul is thrilled that he has a super-pet to match Krypto, but sadly, Supergirl keeps undoing and/or sabotaging him showing off to his buddies? After Paul gets in trouble for telling tall tales, Superman sends Krypto back to make it look like he was tricking Paul into thinking Streaky was super, and everyone forgives him. Notes: Super-pets with little capes are one of the best things in the silver age. Also, I LOVE Streaky's internal dialogue. I would totally buy a Streaky solo title! Funny how getting suckered by a dog is thought to be fine, but telling creative stories is terrible. I get the lying is wrong thing, but what they thought he was doing really falls under adolescent posturing more than anything, which is to be expected in life. I guess it makes sense and all (especially in the contest of the time) but it stuck me as particularly silly. While it was competely weird and shoe horned in, the part where Streaky and Supergirl go to Africa and help some game hunters was great visually. Mooney draws some good animals.. did he ever do a jungle book? Plot: B+ History: C (2nd Streaky) Action #267 'The Three Superheroes' Siegel/Mooney  Plot: The LEGION!!! There's a Superman fair in town, and while visiting, Linda keeps getting put in situations where she might have to save someone and blow her secret, only to have other Super-teens save the day instead. They reveal they're from the future, and want her to try out for their Superhero club. Linda remembers hearing about them from Superman when he was a boy, and goes with them to the future. She meets Cham, Colossal Boy, and Invisible Kid, then does her try out, in which she digs a tunnel through the Earth to make the plane traffic better. After doing it, she gets refused, as she's suddenly too old! Apparently she dug up some red Kryptonite, which made her 18 years old, and too old for the Legion. They send her home, but luckily the aging wears off, so she can try again next year! Notes: Whew, the Legion stuff is awesome, but so messed up. This is the 3rd appearance of the Legion (I think) and the 1st appearance of Chameleon Boy, Colossal Boy and Inivisible Kid. Yet the 3 founders tell Supergirl they're the children of the originals the Superboy joined, which I'm sure they just forgot about later. Then they have rocket packs instead of flight rings, and the never actually use the term "legion of Superheroes'.. only Linda does when she's back home.. they just call themselves a 'superhero club'. There's also the completely ridiculous membership rules.. if you have to leave when you're 18, and they only have one person join a year, they clearly will have no members after not too long. That's either just competely lazy and not thought out, or a nifty commentary on the impusiveness of youth (probably the former, but I can pretend) Then there's here 'aging'. Somehow they new exactly her age... and she also grew like 8 inches (relative to Saturn Girl) which is either really bad art or just poor knowledge of biology. I've not read much Silver Age Legion, but I know enough to know that this is pretty crazy! I can't imagine the horror if someone did something similar today.. teh continuity people would go insane! Plot: B- History: A (1st appearance of 3 Legionnaires, 1st Supergirl interacting with the Legion, 3rd overall Legion appearance) |
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Post by rberman on Feb 12, 2018 10:07:26 GMT -5
There's also the completely ridiculous membership rules.. if you have to leave when you're 18, and they only have one person join a year, they clearly will have no members after not too long. That's either just competely lazy and not thought out, or a nifty commentary on the impusiveness of youth (probably the former, but I can pretend) I find the early Legion stories completely fascinating from a socio/psychological perspective. These were stories written by adults about teenagers for kids. Early Legion stories often fell into two broad categories: "You are not good enough to join our club," and "Why is my so-called friend acting so mean to me?" Sometimes both elements appeared together.   There were some super-villains in the early stories, but it seems to me that once Jim Shooter (at the time an actual teen himself) took over, the "exclusive club" and "mean friend" teen drama stories receded, and straight-up fights with villains became the norm.  |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Feb 12, 2018 22:46:24 GMT -5
Whenever they start talking about 'you can't be in my club' and such, it always makes me think of 8 year olds, something like old Little Rascals episodes or whatever... it always has struck me as weird that teens would act that way. It is interesting to speculate.. did the writers think that's how teens interacted? Or were they writing for those 8 year olds they thought were the main readers?
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Post by comicsandwho on Feb 13, 2018 3:42:27 GMT -5
Whenever they start talking about 'you can't be in my club' and such, it always makes me think of 8 year olds, something like old Little Rascals episodes or whatever... it always has struck me as weird that teens would act that way. It is interesting to speculate.. did the writers think that's how teens interacted? Or were they writing for those 8 year olds they thought were the main readers? Yeah, in the same way that 'Leave it to Beaver' characters acted the way the show's writers remembered kids behaving...back when those guys were kids..in the '20s! Same with Archie comics prior to about the mid-60s, when they adapted to whatever the pop-culture fad was that month. Just about everybody in the Archieverse got 'dumped on' by the rest of 'the good ol' gang' at some point, and the early LSH ramped that aspect up to 30th-century level. Was it realistic for teenagers? I guess that depends on everybody's experience with that part of life. I did know a few people who were jerks at an earlier age, and remained jerks through high school, but there were others who mellowed. But the 8-year-olds in the reading audience could relate to such petty behavior. |
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Post by Prince Hal on Feb 13, 2018 10:51:55 GMT -5
Whenever they start talking about 'you can't be in my club' and such, it always makes me think of 8 year olds, something like old Little Rascals episodes or whatever... it always has struck me as weird that teens would act that way. It is interesting to speculate.. did the writers think that's how teens interacted? Or were they writing for those 8 year olds they thought were the main readers? Same with Archie comics prior to about the mid-60s, when they adapted to whatever the pop-culture fad was that month. Just about everybody in the Archieverse got 'dumped on' by the rest of 'the good ol' gang' at some point, and the early LSH ramped that aspect up to 30th-century level. Was it realistic for teenagers? I guess that depends on everybody's experience with that part of life. I did know a few people who were jerks at an earlier age, and remained jerks through high school, but there were others who mellowed. But the 8-year-olds in the reading audience could relate to such petty behavior. Just have to disagree on the observation you make about "Leave It to Beaver." Everything I've ever read about that program emphasizes just how much Joe Connelly in particular, observed and listened to his own children and their friends, especially his sons Jay and Ricky, as the source for the stories on "Leave It to Beaver." He was not simply transferring his memories of life as a kid (he was born in 1918) and moving them to the late 50s. A larger point to be made is related to what you point out about the universality of kids being excluded and picked on, of some kids being jerks and so on. If any of Connelly and his writing partner Bob Mosher's own childhood experiences made it into Beaver and Wally's, it's simply proof of the universality of those experiences. Kids lie to their parents; kids get in trouble in school; kids get fooled by appearances; parents think that their kids are unappreciative, and so on and on. That Beaver and Wally didn't live through a school shooting at Mayfield Elementary School or that Beaver never knew a trans-gender kid are not indictments of the writers, but reflections of the tastes and culture of television's audience, producers and advertisers in the late 50s/ early 60s. Connelly and Mosher's genius lay not in being transgressive, but in exploring the world of kids, very much as Charles Schulz did in the comics. Like Sculz, they captured "kidness" in its essence. Granted, Mayfield wasn't a "real" place any more than Grover's Corners, but there was reality in the stories of the characters who lived in each of those towns. |
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