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Post by Prince Hal on Dec 7, 2022 23:00:29 GMT -5
RIP Sal Durante, who at 19 caught Maris's 61st homer, which he hit off Boston pitcher Tracy Stallard. (The game ended 1-0.)
Sal tried to return it to Maris, but Maris had heard that a restaurant owner in California would pay five grand for the ball. Maris told Durante to keep it; Durante sold it nad used the money for his upcoming marriage and to help his parents.
The right field seats he, his fiancee and another couple occupied that day (October 1, 1961) set them back ten bucks.
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Post by Prince Hal on Dec 8, 2022 0:31:35 GMT -5
And Bogaerts goes to the Padres...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2022 1:30:44 GMT -5
At 30 years old, he got an 11 year contract. That it was worth $280 million is beside the point. No team except one at the level of desperation the Padres have shown in recent years, is giving an 11 year contract to a 30 year old.
I am hearing the Sox offer wasn't close (didn't top $200 million), but I am not hearing how many years it was for. I am happy for Xander, sad at the Sox losing him, but an 11 year contract to any 30 year old player is a bad contract. And I am pretty sue they will ask Xander to change position when Tatis is ready to come back. He's already signed to an ungodly contract to play short for them for the long term.
-M
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2022 1:53:07 GMT -5
According to Alex Speier:
-M
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Post by Rob Allen on Dec 8, 2022 2:15:26 GMT -5
I've been meaning to post this all day, and there's less than an hour left.
Today in History: Dec. 7, 1963 - the first use of videotaped instant replay in a live sports broadcast, during the Army/Navy football game.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Dec 8, 2022 10:02:45 GMT -5
At 30 years old, he got an 11 year contract. That it was worth $280 million is beside the point. No team except one at the level of desperation the Padres have shown in recent years, is giving an 11 year contract to a 30 year old. I am hearing the Sox offer wasn't close (didn't top $200 million), but I am not hearing how many years it was for. I am happy for Xander, sad at the Sox losing him, but an 11 year contract to any 30 year old player is a bad contract. And I am pretty sue they will ask Xander to change position when Tatis is ready to come back. He's already signed to an ungodly contract to play short for them for the long term. -M Alex Speier is reporting Boston offered 6/$160.. more per year, but clearly he's not going to turn down that Padres offer. Be interesting to see where he plays.. the buzz is Tatis goes to the outfield, and the guy who played short for them last year that was surprisingly good either stays there and Xander is 2B/DH or he moves to 2B. Or maybe he goes to 3B and Machado DH's some. we'll see. That's a whole lot of talent San Diego has if they can all stay on the field.
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Post by Prince Hal on Dec 8, 2022 11:45:17 GMT -5
Re the Bogaerts debacle:
Many things can be true at the same time.
1. An 11-year contract for a 30-year-old player is at the least risky, even in this age of advanced health, nutrition, etc., and at the most, insane. But the Padres drove the market with their offer to Turner, Philly responded and suddenly, it's the years as well as the money. It's a new world in MLB now, like it or not. Logic sometimes takes a back seat to winning, and the Sox have plenty of money. We're not talking about the St. Louis Browns here.
2. Padres are desperate to win now, and they have bought themselves a core of studs to try to do just that, the future be damned.
3. Sox may well have been convinced a couple of years ago that Bogaerts would not be a good long-term investment, for whatever reasons. Reasonable people can disagree on that. But, and it's a butt as big as Bertha's, the Sox should then have been out in front of that far earlier than the spring of Bogaert's FA year. At least then they might have been able to trade him for some return.
4. If Sox were unconvinced that Bogaerts would be a good long-term investment (and I think they must have felt burned by the Pedroia contract, let alone the Sale extension), they also could have overwhelmed him with big money over fewer years. Remember, this would have been before Harper's then one-of-a-kind 13-year contract.
5. The Sox were behind the other real players in MLB and too slow to realize it. The Turner and Judge deals should have clued them in that if they truly wanted Bogaerts, they'd better up the length of the contract.
7. No matter what the Sox believed about a future with Bogaerts, they blew it. They look like cheapskates, and worse, they look like liars. Plus they no longer project as a force, even in their own division.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2022 13:09:11 GMT -5
The Red Sox mistake was not yesterday. The mistake was letting Bogaerts get to free agency. With Betts they didn't have a choice, he was determined to test the market no matter what, and once he did, it was a foregone conclusion. With Bogaerts, a legitimate market value extension offer this past spring would likely have gotten it done. The mistake was made then. They need to learn this lesson and apply it to Devers. Make him a real, legitimate, market value extension offer this offseason. Get it done before he reaches free agency, because like Betts and Bogaerts, if he reaches free agency, it's a foregone conclusion someone is going to make a batshit crazy offer he can't refuse to go elsewhere. I don't fault the Sox for not matching San Diego's offer. Their last offer would have been legit had it been made in March not December. I fault them for not making a legit offer last spring. And to that last point (#7) Prince Hal, with all the improvements in the AL East last season, the Sox didn't project as a force within that division even with Bogarts. They projected as a potential last place team even with Xander and Rafe in house. They needed to secure those 2 long term and add a lot more talent if they were going to even be competitive in that division for the next 4-5 years, and if all they did was retain Xander, it would not have been enough and they would only be competing to not be in last in that division, not win it. Yankees, Jays, Rays and Orioles are all contenders for the next 4-5 years barring massive injuries or scandals (PED suspensions and the like). The Sox at best were projecting to be an 80-85 win team if they had retained Xander. WIththe additions they made yesterday and with losing Xander, they not project to be a .500 team, so in the on the field actual results, losing Xander isn't moving the needle back all that much, it will be in the arena of public perception, in attendance, ratings and merch sales that the needle will be moved back significantly. As I said about the Yankees, they screwed up with Judge in the spring, cost themselves $60 million + more as a result, and ended up spending $380 million dollars on a player, who in one of the most transcendent seasons ever seen wasn't good enough to get them to the WS. The Sox were in a similar situation. They screwed up in the spring, it was going to cost them more to get it done, and they would have spent hundreds of millions on a player, who in a near-MVP caliber season wasn't good enough to keep them out of last place. It's not about what players like that do on the field. It's about how it affects the pocketbook. They are an investment in future revenue, not in on-field results. Obviously ownership saw the ROI on Bogaerts differently than other. They were willing to invest, but reluctantly and not as much as the young hotshots who think they know better than the market like the Padres (basically the Crypto-kids of MLB right now). -M
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Post by Prince Hal on Dec 8, 2022 13:38:05 GMT -5
@mrp, as I said, the Sox blew this a long time ago. And, as you say, this is a PR disaster, with a front office in complete disarray, due to overconfidence or incompetence, probably a combination of both.
As for being a force, you're right about next year, even with Bogaerts, and perhaps I should have made clearer that it wasn't blowing this deal that eliminated them from being a force in the East; they've been lacking juice for a few years. The 2021 season was more a fluke than a well designed achievement, and the Sox ownership and management thought they could ride that for a long while. Remember, as they stressed all season, "That team was just two wins from the World Series."
Devers? Why would he sign here? Given what's happening, you'd need to give him 12 years at outlandish money, which the Sox are not apparently going to do for anybody, but even then, who wants to be Ernie Banks anymore? Ernie had no choice; Devers can go to a team that wants to win and won't be wondering year to year if anyone else on the team can achieve at a high level.
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Post by EdoBosnar on Dec 9, 2022 13:39:16 GMT -5
Kind of like that unbelievable string of victories four years ago, here's a bit of sports news I never thought I'd see: Croatia just knocked Brazil out of the World Cup. Of course, everyone here is going apes**t - it's raining in buckets in Zagreb and still people are outside letting off fire crackers and bottle rockets and generally making noise (I can hear it even though I live in the outskirts of town).
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Post by wildfire2099 on Dec 9, 2022 22:14:37 GMT -5
Agree 100% with Boston and Boegarts.. when they gave Story 6-150 and offered him only 4-90, I'm surprised he even was still willing to talk. If they offered the same 6-160 then (more than Story, most importantly)I agree that would have done it.
I don't blame the Yankees for Judge.. he's had alot of injury issues, and big guys like that are not always durable. who would have guessed a season for the ages? If I was a more cynical person, I'd suspect some chemical assistance.
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Post by EdoBosnar on Dec 10, 2022 14:16:31 GMT -5
Wow, the upsets just keep coming for the favorites and/or powerhouse teams in this World Cup tournament: Morocco just sent Portugal home after a 1-0 victory, making them the first African country to get this far, i.e., the semi-finals. Now I kind of hope they make it to the final...
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Dec 10, 2022 16:22:05 GMT -5
Wow, the upsets just keep coming for the favorites and/or powerhouse teams in this World Cup tournament: Morocco just sent Portugal home after a 1-0 victory, making them the first African country to get this far, i.e., the semi-finals. Now I kind of hope they make it to the final... So, since they beat Spain and Portugal, does this mean they get Ceuta back?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2022 17:39:52 GMT -5
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Post by EdoBosnar on Dec 10, 2022 17:40:05 GMT -5
So, since they beat Spain and Portugal, does this mean they get Ceuta back? You'd think so, but I'm not hopeful...
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