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Post by Rob Allen on Sept 26, 2014 21:50:59 GMT -5
I heard some people talking at work about a guy, I think he's an athlete of some kind. His name sounded like 'Eric G. Tur'. Anyone know who that might be?
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Post by BigPapaJoe on Sept 26, 2014 21:52:39 GMT -5
Never been a huge baseball fan. I know Jeter has been around forever though. Great career. Did his performance wane in recent years?
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Post by Action Ace on Sept 26, 2014 21:59:20 GMT -5
I have no idea to what "sport" that's supposedly referring. Also, Terrell Owens needs to be shot in the head. Not that it would have any appreciable impact, I'm sure. Australian Rules Football |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2014 6:44:33 GMT -5
Never been a huge baseball fan. I know Jeter has been around forever though. Great career. Did his performance wane in recent years? Very good hitter for a SS until the (inevitable, unless you're shot up to the gills with steroids, evidently) age-related decline of the last couple of years. Problem is, he had no more business being a SS than I do a race car driver -- one of the worst-fielding practitioners of the postion in the history of the sport, despite what the eyes of his besotted worshippers told them. Didn't make a lot of errors, but that's because fielders don't get E's on balls they lack the range to rech. His lack of range is legendary ... except, again, among the members of his lovestruck fan club. |
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Sept 27, 2014 7:05:49 GMT -5
Never been a huge baseball fan. I know Jeter has been around forever though. Great career. Did his performance wane in recent years? Very good hitter for a SS until the (inevitable, unless you're shot up to the gills with steroids, evidently) age-related decline of the last couple of years. Problem is, he had no more business being a SS than I do a race car driver -- one of the worst-fielding practitioners of the postion in the history of the sport, despite what the eyes of his besotted worshippers told them. Didn't make a lot of errors, but that's because fielders don't get E's on balls they lack the range to rech. His lack of range is legendary ... except, again, among the members of his lovestruck fan club. See,right there is the story.Those who actually watched him play for 20 years thinks the knock on his fielding is over-blown due to general Yankee hatred. Those who just look at numbers and come up with analytic-contortionist metrics that no one unanimously agrees to think they can quantify fielding without watching End of the day, listen to all the current players and teammates,recently retired players,old-time players,managers,coaches- you know, guys actually on the field and they would tell you they would want DJ to be on their team. He will be a first round Hall Of Famer. Those taking the above approach are only exhibiting their feelings about the Yankee organization in whatever crude way they can.Its very transparent and sad to see. No free comics or chocolate cake for you, bad man. Have a Un-Yummy day  |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2014 9:16:09 GMT -5
Sorry, Ish. You know I love you (in the manliest, most wholesomely brotherly of ways, of course), but numbers don't lie. Not in baseball. Not over the course of a career's worth of seasons (as opposed to a fluke stretch or even a fluke season; lord knows, those do happen). And the idea that they've somehow been skewed just to trump up ... no, to create ... a case against the Great God Jeter -- even though the analytical methods they employ were arrived at when he was in grade school -- borders on black-helicopters paranoia of the worst kind.
Feel better soon. It's still a bit warm outside, & I'm sure that tinfoil hat you've kept planted on your noggin hasn't been helping your health at all.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2014 9:18:36 GMT -5
No free comics or chocolate cake for you, bad man. Have a Un-Yummy day Too late -- that was yesterday afternoon. And it was vanilla. Really good, too. |
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Post by The Captain on Sept 27, 2014 10:38:32 GMT -5
Fun little comparison:
20 seasons, 2850 games, 12504 AB, .281/.363/.433 slash line, 3060 hits, 668 2B, 55 3B, 291 HR, 414 SB, 112 OPS+, 65.1 WAR
20 seasons, 2745 games, 12598 AB, .309/.377/.440 slash line, 3463 hits, 544 2B, 66 2B, 260 HR, 358 SB, 115 OPS+, 71.7 WAR
One of these players is Derek Jeter, while the other is Craig Biggio. One is being talked about as possibly the "greatest SS of all time", while the other retired with little fanfare. One is being talked about as a "sure-fire first-ballot HOFer and possibly the first to get 100% of the vote", while the other is considered a borderline candidate.
Derek Jeter, had he played in any other city for his entire career, would be nothing more than Craig Biggio, but because he was a Damn Yankee playing in the largest media market in the country and fawned over by the talking heads on ESPN for two decades, he's considered to be so much greater than a very similar player.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2014 10:42:01 GMT -5
Not to mention the fact that Biggio moved positions, & in drastic fashion at that, when his team needed him to -- from C to 2B to (IIRC) OF (maybe CF?), something the supremely selfish Captain Calm Eyes refused to ever even countenance.
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Sept 27, 2014 11:49:39 GMT -5
Dan has attacked Derek Jeter more often than Dr Doom attacking the FF. Unfortunately Dan does not have his own country to show for his efforts. Instead he has to kow-tow to his cats.No wonder he's irritable Richard, on the other hand, after 20 years of inept,losing seasons of Pirate baseball finally has a playoff berth to look forward to and all he can talk about here is Derek and the Yankees. Derek and the Yankees seems to be strange obsession with him. Can it be because without the welfare money the Yankee's paid to keep his favorite franchise afloat the Pirateswould have had to walk the plank long ago? Is that what its about Rich? All that welfare money that obsesses you. Another reason to be irritable In both cases, please look at the kind and soothing face below to help soothe you're nerves Or at least be full fledged Red Sox fans and have an excuse. And even they repect DJ  |
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Sept 27, 2014 12:06:31 GMT -5
By the way,I do remember your Biggio/Jeter comparason back on the CBR boards and besides Jeter having 400 more hits with 100 fewer at-bats, you forgot to show:
Jeter-Runs Scored 1923 RBI 1310
Biggio-Runs Scored 1844 RBI 1175
Again with Jeter's lesser at bats and Biggio batting further down in the line up as well
But the bottom line is post season performance.Jeter actually gets BETTER in the post season.Thats why he's Captain Clutch,Mr November and so forth. Biggio on the other hand, how do I put this, simply sucked. Really sucked. Hurt his team sucked. Worlds series batting average .222 kind of sucked or total post-season in the .230s sucked. Next comparason please?
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Post by Prince Hal on Sept 27, 2014 12:23:05 GMT -5
Not denying that Jeter was a good player, but he benefited not just from the fawning attention of the NY media, and the Yankee PR machine, but from being surrounded by generally excellent lineups. Ma Hunkel could've hit what Jeter did if she were ensconced in lineups dominated by the likes of Williams, O’Neill, Martinez, Posada, Giambi, Sheffield, Rodriguez, Teixeira, Cano, Hideki Matsui, et al. Did I fear him coming to the plate in the clutch? Yes, for a few years there. He always seemed to be good for a double to right when you didn't want one. But I have to tell you, that didn't last. In the epic 2003 and 2004 series against the Sox, Jeter had BAs of .233 and .200 and OBPs of .281 and .333. Hardly awe-inspiring, and also hardly remembered, as those Biggioesque performances do not serve to burnish the reputation of the 255th-best on baseball's all-time OBP leaders. This, from the guy New York writers and fans are elevating above such humpties as Gehrig and DiMaggio on the scale of Yankee greatness. (Read Davidoff. Listen to the interview he gave this morning on a Boston radio station.) For me the signature Jeter image isn't his vaulting throw from "deep" in the hole or his leap into the stands or the toss to throw out Jeremy (If he'd've slid, he'd've been safe, but his brain must've shrunk with his man-berries) Giambi. It's that haughty hand-in-the-face to the ump every time he gets in the box, as His Jeterness, He Who Must Be Respected, determines just when the game will continue. Re: Biggio and Jeter in the clutch. Not to repeat myself, but, hey, it saves me from retyping. |
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Sept 27, 2014 12:45:11 GMT -5
Its easy to cherry-pick someone who had 16 years of post season activity and many with multiple series per year. You pick out 2003 and Jeter went on to the World Series and batted .345 He batted .407 in the 2009 World Series. He batted .500 in the 2006 division series. Cherry-pickings easy to do. Lets just say his cumulative post season stats are (158 games a full seasons worth) .308 BA 20 Hrs 111 runs scored 61 RBIs and a .465 slugging average.
Jeter is so much more than the stats. The steadiness, the leadership qualities, his class amidst the media of New York, his hustle on every at bat busting it out of the box, his unquestionable PED-free performance, his even-keel personality (he was never ejected from a game his entire career). I'll listen to the testimonials from his fellow ballplayers because i would think they know a bit more than what I've read on this thread
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2014 13:55:13 GMT -5
RBIs and run scored are as much a result of supporting cast i.e. the line up around you as talent of the player getting them. Had Biggio played for team with the monetary resources of the Yanks to put a line up of All Stars around him, he would have scored and driven in more, but he only had 2 Killer B's to help him. Had Jeter played for a team that had fewer all-stars around him, he would have scored less, driven in less and had far fewer post season appearances and opportunities to perform/rack up playoff stats.
Again, Jeter, very good player, deserved first ballot HoF, but not the greatest SS of all time and a man very fortunate to play in the environment he did to boost his career profile.
And testimonials tend to have a mob mentality. People jump on the bandwagon to gain attention and keep piling on to fill the 24/7 ESPN needs to fill air time with something cycle, and others only respond when put in on the spot and asked even if they would rather not say anything. I don't trust testimonials anymore than I trust A-Rod saying he never used PEDs when on camera and asked all those years. The tests tell the truth, and in baseball the test results are the entirety of one statistical legacy, not the cherry picked moments.
So goodbye and farewell DJ, glad you came, glad to see you go...don't let the goodbye linger it makes me wish you were already gone and regret your coming more. It's just awkward. Buh-bye see ya!
-M
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Post by Hoosier X on Sept 27, 2014 17:38:48 GMT -5
Can't we just forget about Jeter and focus on what's really important?
The Yankees didn't make it into the playoffs!
The next step: Giants lose Wild Card game.
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