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Post by hondobrode on Apr 6, 2015 15:01:27 GMT -5
I agree with everything you've said.
One of the best things the industry could do IMO would be for retailers to have a printer to be able to download and print on demand for their customers. I would think there would be some way, if not now then in the future, to do that.
I hear some of you laughing, but I think it's entirely possible. Maybe not now, but soon.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Apr 6, 2015 15:28:01 GMT -5
They were toying with that for books at one point.. not sure what happened.
I think the opposite of what Trebor said... I think digital sales are LESS signifigant than we think.. if they were huge, someone would be touting actual numbers. Why wouldn't they? The numbers that are available (like comixology's pulls) are very small.
We don't KNOW that Marvel, DC, or anyone uses Diamond's stats to make business decisions.. in fact, I'd say they'd be foolish too, considering that is now one of several venues for sales.
I think it's trades that are the big factor... look at Ms. Marvel. The comic is only in the mid 60s as far as sales go (rank wise) but I bet if you went back and added up all the trade sales for the last 6 months, they'd equal the monthly pull.. and it's still a top seller. Never mind the Vertigo stuff that still sells regularly (Fables and Y the last man still frequent the charts). I think the diamond list just isn't that indicative anymore..it's more a fun curiousity than a market barometer these days, I think.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2015 15:32:19 GMT -5
They were toying with that for books at one point.. not sure what happened. I think the opposite of what Trebor said... I think digital sales are LESS signifigant than we think.. if they were huge, someone would be touting actual numbers. Why wouldn't they? The numbers that are available (like comixology's pulls) are very small. We don't KNOW that Marvel, DC, or anyone uses Diamond's stats to make business decisions.. in fact, I'd say they'd be foolish too, considering that is now one of several venues for sales. I think it's trades that are the big factor... look at Ms. Marvel. The comic is only in the mid 60s as far as sales go (rank wise) but I bet if you went back and added up all the trade sales for the last 6 months, they'd equal the monthly pull.. and it's still a top seller. Never mind the Vertigo stuff that still sells regularly (Fables and Y the last man still frequent the charts). I think the diamond list just isn't that indicative anymore..it's more a fun curiousity than a market barometer these days, I think. Actually if you look at Brian Hibbs numbers for bookstore sales trades and combine them with Diamond sales for trades, Marvel's trade sales are pretty abyssmal compared to the rest of the industry, and most don't break the 10K unit mark. -M
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Post by the4thpip on Apr 6, 2015 16:07:07 GMT -5
That is assuming, of course, that Loot Crate customers care about getting books in order or without gaps. With a book like Rocket Raccoon, I see a lot of people just buying #1 and #4 when they see it and not care about the gap. (And IIRC, Rocket Raccoon's sales actually went up instead of down for a month or two a while after the first issue).
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Post by wildfire2099 on Apr 6, 2015 19:23:57 GMT -5
Actually if you look at Brian Hibbs numbers for bookstore sales trades and combine them with Diamond sales for trades, Marvel's trade sales are pretty abyssmal compared to the rest of the industry, and most don't break the 10K unit mark. -M Some are, sure.. but Ms. Marvel (my example) has been in the top 20 or so every month for the 6 months it's been out.. and that's just from Diamond. Not Marvel, necessarily, but there are many, many series who have trade sales that are many time more than the single issues.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2015 20:33:39 GMT -5
Actually if you look at Brian Hibbs numbers for bookstore sales trades and combine them with Diamond sales for trades, Marvel's trade sales are pretty abyssmal compared to the rest of the industry, and most don't break the 10K unit mark. -M Some are, sure.. but Ms. Marvel (my example) has been in the top 20 or so every month for the 6 months it's been out.. and that's just from Diamond. Not Marvel, necessarily, but there are many, many series who have trade sales that are many time more than the single issues. But Ms. Marvel is also succeeding on a digital (digital sales for #1 outperforming the first printing of the print product according to Marvel) and floppy level (9 printings of #1 and going, 7 printings of #2, etc.) it's a surprise runaway hit in all mediums, but overall, trade sales are not significant to the success of books for Marvel if you look at the entire line. Where it is a success, is in books that are successes across all platforms. There are not any current Marvel books that are succeeding as trades that are not also succeeding as floppies and/or digital products. i's not a market that will fuel a books survival on its own if it falters elsewhere(unlike DC, where a book like IVampire got an extended lease on life when floppies were at cancellation level when the first volume of the trade made the NY Times best seller list, but those trade sales never translated back to floppy sales and the book was cancelled before the second trade collection was released). -M
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Post by the4thpip on Apr 7, 2015 2:00:17 GMT -5
I'd bet, though, that the Oz adaptations from Marvel only lasted as long as they did for their chances to sell in bookstores for decades to come.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2015 2:16:30 GMT -5
I'd bet, though, that the Oz adaptations from Marvel only lasted as long as they did for their chances to sell in bookstores for decades to come. Well except that Marvel has let some of them go out of print as they do with almost all their trades. -M
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Post by the4thpip on Apr 7, 2015 2:18:16 GMT -5
Maybe it did not help that the animated movie flopped so badly.
The omnibus is still in print, though.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2015 2:22:02 GMT -5
Maybe it did not help that the animated movie flopped so badly. The omnibus is still in print, though. Or that Marvel has no evergreen trade policy, they print a set run, sell it out and if it sold out quickly enough possibly go back to print on it, unlike say DC or Image that has some trades continuously in print for years on end. If hey have unsold stock at the end of the year for most trades, they liquidate it to Diamond who does end of year clearance through the Star System catalog. They do not want to keep books in storage to sell long term, they'd rather blow things out if they don't sell within the window they set. -M
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Post by the4thpip on Apr 7, 2015 2:55:26 GMT -5
Maybe I am naive to hope that any "collected editions" department would not treat every collection the same and see a difference between their superhero stuff, the Oz stuff and the Stephen King comics.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2015 3:02:24 GMT -5
Maybe I am naive to hope that any "collected editions" department would not treat every collection the same and see a difference between their superhero stuff, the Oz stuff and the Stephen King comics. It'd be nice, but it hasn't been the case thus far and no one in charge at any level seems to be inclined to change it. It's more profitable it seems to blow through the print runs and go back to print on a few selected top sellers from time to time or to rerelease the same material in a new format (can you say omnibus and deluxe hardcover, Epic vs. Essential and Masterworks, etc.) than it is to pay for warehouse storage and slow burn print runs and keep books available, and for Marvel/Disney, that's the bottom line. They'll even license classic Disney material out rather than keep it in their in house comic publisher (i.e. Marvel) if it is more profitable that way rather than taking the time to grow their publishing house for the long term. If it doesn't look good ontheir quarterly reports, it's not in their best interest it seems. -M
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Post by dupersuper on Apr 7, 2015 6:29:06 GMT -5
I love Orphan Black (season 3 starts this month!), but found that the 1st issue was very much just a retelling of Sarahs origin. I understand why you'd want to do that for new readers, but as a fan of the show it was pretty much just a retread. The second issue was better; covering stuff we actually hadn't seen about another character.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Apr 7, 2015 13:45:50 GMT -5
Some are, sure.. but Ms. Marvel (my example) has been in the top 20 or so every month for the 6 months it's been out.. and that's just from Diamond. Not Marvel, necessarily, but there are many, many series who have trade sales that are many time more than the single issues. But Ms. Marvel is also succeeding on a digital (digital sales for #1 outperforming the first printing of the print product according to Marvel) and floppy level (9 printings of #1 and going, 7 printings of #2, etc.) it's a surprise runaway hit in all mediums, but overall, trade sales are not significant to the success of books for Marvel if you look at the entire line. Where it is a success, is in books that are successes across all platforms. There are not any current Marvel books that are succeeding as trades that are not also succeeding as floppies and/or digital products. i's not a market that will fuel a books survival on its own if it falters elsewhere(unlike DC, where a book like IVampire got an extended lease on life when floppies were at cancellation level when the first volume of the trade made the NY Times best seller list, but those trade sales never translated back to floppy sales and the book was cancelled before the second trade collection was released). -M Well, you're probably right about that... It's definitely more a Vertigo/Image thing for the trades keeping a series going. I wonder if they'd have more long term sellers (ala Walking Dead, Sandman, Fables, etc) if they kept things in print longer? Their marketing seemed to indicate that was the intention with the Epic line, but it's kinda too early to tell there.
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Post by berkley on Apr 8, 2015 11:14:26 GMT -5
Haven't seen the comics but the show is pretty good. I'm about half-way through the second season right now.
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