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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2015 8:17:13 GMT -5
I'm mostly joking, but there have been a couple of X-men-centric examples where prior characterization was completely disregarded and it improved the character/stories/milleu immensely - smart beast Beast has always been smart... No he hasn't, not in his speech anyway - re-read the first few X-men issues from the 60's and he sounds more like the Hulk than the Beast we know now. Fun fact: It's so jarring in retrospect, that when they were reprinted in the UK, all the Beast's dialogue was re-written to make him sound more like the erudite Beast he turned into later. |
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Post by Dizzy D on Jul 23, 2015 9:09:54 GMT -5
Beast has always been smart... No he hasn't, not in his speech anyway - re-read the first few X-men issues from the 60's and he sounds more like the Hulk than the Beast we know now. Fun fact: It's so jarring in retrospect, that when they were reprinted in the UK, all the Beast's dialogue was re-written to make him sound more like the erudite Beast he turned into later. I disagree, but not completely. Beast's dialogue in issue #1 was indeed different (though I always thought it was more Ben Grimm than the Hulk), but I think it was only in the first comic. The thing that *did* really change was the type of intelligence Beast had: he was an intellectual but his fields of interest were literature and poetry and only became a scientist (excluding the Unus story) when Uncanny X-Men ended and he appeared in Amazing Adventures. |
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Post by Cei-U! on Jul 23, 2015 9:29:52 GMT -5
No he hasn't, not in his speech anyway - re-read the first few X-men issues from the 60's and he sounds more like the Hulk than the Beast we know now. Fun fact: It's so jarring in retrospect, that when they were reprinted in the UK, all the Beast's dialogue was re-written to make him sound more like the erudite Beast he turned into later. I disagree, but not completely. Beast's dialogue in issue #1 was indeed different (though I always thought it was more Ben Grimm than the Hulk), but I think it was only in the first comic. The thing that *did* really change was the type of intelligence Beast had: he was an intellectual but his fields of interest were literature and poetry and only became a scientist (excluding the Unus story) when Uncanny X-Men ended and he appeared in Amazing Adventures. Not true. Beast was the go-to science guy for the team throughout the series, concocting among other things the portable mini-Cerebro units. In fact, the Origins back-up in X-Men #48 specifically notes that Hank McCoy holds 37 patents for his inventions. Cei-U! I summon the bona fides! |
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
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Post by shaxper on Jul 23, 2015 10:03:16 GMT -5
I disagree, but not completely. Beast's dialogue in issue #1 was indeed different (though I always thought it was more Ben Grimm than the Hulk), but I think it was only in the first comic. The thing that *did* really change was the type of intelligence Beast had: he was an intellectual but his fields of interest were literature and poetry and only became a scientist (excluding the Unus story) when Uncanny X-Men ended and he appeared in Amazing Adventures. Not true. Beast was the go-to science guy for the team throughout the series, concocting among other things the portable mini-Cerebro units. In fact, the Origins back-up in X-Men #48 specifically notes that Hank McCoy holds 37 patents for his inventions. Cei-U! I summon the bona fides! Beast seems very clearly depicted as a dumb brute in the first issue. Even his dialect is less refined than that of his peers. He's also far more aggressive and brutish to Jean than the others. In the second issue, Beast makes a comment about being "smarter than the others," though this appears to be said in jest. From all outward appearances, nothing changes about his personality or abilities in this issue. It isn't until issue #3 that he is portrayed in the way that we know him now, with a high vocabulary, a sense of humor, and being the brainiac of the group. |
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Post by Cei-U! on Jul 23, 2015 10:50:14 GMT -5
I'm not saying his characterization didn't change from those earliest issues (it clearly did), just disputing Dizzy's assertion that Beast wasn't depicted as a scientist until Amazing Adventures #11.
Cei-U!
I summon the clarification!
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Post by Dizzy D on Jul 23, 2015 10:54:03 GMT -5
I'm not saying his characterization didn't change from those earliest issues (it clearly did), just disputing Dizzy's assertion that Beast wasn't depicted as a scientist until Amazing Adventures #11. Cei-U! I summon the clarification! Mmm.. I'm pretty sure that the only thing he invented in the early issues was a weapon against Unus, all the other inventions were done by Xavier (I made it a point to double check during the reread of the original issues from the start back on CBR), but I don't have my copies here, so I'll come back once I have those. |
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,870
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Post by shaxper on Jul 23, 2015 13:03:59 GMT -5
I'm not saying his characterization didn't change from those earliest issues (it clearly did), just disputing Dizzy's assertion that Beast wasn't depicted as a scientist until Amazing Adventures #11. Cei-U! I summon the clarification! I summon the oops. |
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Jul 25, 2015 18:40:50 GMT -5
One of my least favorite things about SA Marvel is the lack of intellectual disciplines. If you have a degree in medicine of course you can build an android!
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Jul 25, 2015 18:45:26 GMT -5
I'm mostly joking, but there have been a couple of X-men-centric examples where prior characterization was completely disregarded and it improved the character/stories/milleu immensely - smart beast Beast has always been smart... What everyone said, but this was really only the first two-three issues, while Stan and Jack were still feeling the concept out. Hank's characterization - if not his field of study, good catch Dizzy - has been one of the most solid and unchanging in comics for the last 50 years. |
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Post by tingramretro on Jul 26, 2015 2:04:38 GMT -5
One of my least favorite things about SA Marvel is the lack of intellectual disciplines. If you have a degree in medicine of course you can build an android! That annoys me, too. Pym is the obvious example, but when exactly did Tony Stark go from being an engineer to being a theoretical physicist? |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jul 26, 2015 8:04:33 GMT -5
One of my least favorite things about SA Marvel is the lack of intellectual disciplines. If you have a degree in medicine of course you can build an android! That annoys me, too. Pym is the obvious example, but when exactly did Tony Stark go from being an engineer to being a theoretical physicist? In the Marvel Universe, there's this vocation called "scientist"... anyone becoming a scientist is well-versed in any and all branches of knowledge. Hence Hank Pym being an expert in hymenoptera, exotic particles and robotics, Professor Xavier being a geneticist, engineer and physicist who builds danger rooms and Cerebroes, and Reed Richards and Tchalla being chemists, physicists, geneticists, engineers, astrophysicists, biologists and probably ichtyologists too! I SO wanted to be that kind of scientist when I was young!!! And on that subject... |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 26, 2015 9:48:07 GMT -5
I disagree, but not completely. Beast's dialogue in issue #1 was indeed different (though I always thought it was more Ben Grimm than the Hulk), but I think it was only in the first comic. The thing that *did* really change was the type of intelligence Beast had: he was an intellectual but his fields of interest were literature and poetry and only became a scientist (excluding the Unus story) when Uncanny X-Men ended and he appeared in Amazing Adventures. Not true. Beast was the go-to science guy for the team throughout the series, concocting among other things the portable mini-Cerebro units. In fact, the Origins back-up in X-Men #48 specifically notes that Hank McCoy holds 37 patents for his inventions. Cei-U! I summon the bona fides! But it IS true that he didn't start with the banter we all know and love right away... the first 2 issues he sounded more like the Thing than anything... there was a bit of a transition in #3, then by #4 you clearly get beginning of the Real McCoy  *cheap plug mode*(I discuss that some in my X-Men review thread, incidently) *cheap Plug Mode off* Also, while he did do some science early on, just as often Professor Xavier did his own science... because, you know, anyone smart in the Marvel Universe can do just about anything  |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jul 27, 2015 5:42:59 GMT -5
On the subject of scientists, it has never been clear when and where Magneto studied... even if he built some nifty toys in his day.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Jul 27, 2015 16:56:44 GMT -5
On the subject of scientists, it has never been clear when and where Magneto studied... even if he built some nifty toys in his day. If anywhere... although generally , in early Marvel, you need at least an Associate's degree before you can build artificial intelligence and satellite asteroids and stuff. |
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Post by Dizzy D on Jul 28, 2015 3:29:47 GMT -5
Either that or you've found the study notes of somebody who did (Magneto with Maelstrom, Toad with the Stranger etc.)
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*cheap plug mode*(I discuss that some in my X-Men review thread, incidently) *cheap Plug Mode off*