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Post by Hoosier X on Jun 8, 2014 16:50:37 GMT -5
I wouldn't defend Gaggy for any reason. (I'm not at all a fan of most of the New Look. Like I said, there's more to the 1960s than Batman.) I definitely think Death of the Family is much preferable to Batman #186. But being better than Batman #186 is nothing to brag about.
I thought Death of the Family was an OK story, but that's just because I've gotten used to lowering my expectations for modern comics. Death of the Family is just not that good. Very pretentious, with an awful lot of scenes that were gratuitous shock value that really weren't that shocking.
Kinda stupid, yes. But at least Death of the Family wasn't boring. Like the neverending story about the Court of the Owls. You know, the ancient Gotham organization that's existed for centuries that the world's greatest detective has never heard of. Stupid and nonsensical are a fine thing for comics, but you throw in pretentiousness and dullness and you get some comics that are insufferable.
"Captives of the Alien Zoo!" from Detective Comics #326! Now THAT'S a Batman story!
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Post by Hoosier X on Jun 8, 2014 16:55:21 GMT -5
I also like those stories with Ginny Jenkins, in Detective Comics #380 and #391. The latter is titled "The Girl Most Likely To Be Batman's Widow!"
And "Prisoners of Three Worlds!"
And "Die Small! Die Big!" in Detective #385.
I like the way you toss out Gaggy like he's considered some kind of classic Silver Age character. I love all sorts of dumb characters, but I can't work up any affection for Gaggy.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jun 8, 2014 16:56:29 GMT -5
I'll go ahead and be the iconoclast.
The 80s. Beyond what Alan Moore, Frank Miller, et al were doing, First Comics, Eclipse, Comico, Pacific and others were making the decade one of the most diverse and easily the best.
The 90s. Yeah...there was a lot of bad. But the good was miles beyond the good in almost any other decade. Vertigo alone would make this decade up at the top of my list. Sandman, Preacher, Sandman Mystery Theatre, Animal Man, Doom Patrol, Hellblazer. Warren Ellis' early work. A ton of great short lived series' from DC, Chronos, Chase, Vext. Ostrander and Mandrake.
The 70s. Good diversity from the Big Two. The death of the House Style (at least for a bit)
The 40s. This is mostly because of a handful of great creators. Barks, Cole, Kelly, Eisner.
The 60s. This has little to do with what the Big Two were going and a lot to do with undergrounds and Warren. And Tower.
The 00s. This could move up on any given day. Ennis, Ellis, Rucka, Brubaker, great stuff from Alan Moore.
The 50s. Mad Magazine and EC and some quality stuff from Dell.
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Post by Hoosier X on Jun 8, 2014 17:06:06 GMT -5
Slam, the 1980s are the go-to decade in this thread. If there were a poll, the 1980s would have twice as many points (at least) as its nearest competitors.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2014 17:13:19 GMT -5
I like the way you toss out Gaggy like he's considered some kind of classic Silver Age character. I love all sorts of dumb characters, but I can't work up any affection for Gaggy.
I loved the way Neal Adams bought him back in Batman 251, or the way Englehart portrayed him in The Laughing Fish. Thank you 70s.
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Crimebuster
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Making comics!
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Post by Crimebuster on Jun 8, 2014 17:25:07 GMT -5
I like the way you toss out Gaggy like he's considered some kind of classic Silver Age character. I love all sorts of dumb characters, but I can't work up any affection for Gaggy.
I loved the way Neal Adams bought him back in Batman 251, or the way Englehart portrayed him in The Laughing Fish. Thank you 70s.
A lot of that was possible due to the softening of the comics code in 1971. Not defending the 50's and 60's Joker stories, because I don't care for them either, but DC simply could not do serious Joker stories during that period because of code restrictions. They could only play him as an actual clown character, not a killer. Once the code loosened up in the early 70's, DC was free to return him to his more interesting roots. |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jun 8, 2014 18:59:36 GMT -5
I have only read through Church & State II TPB. Is it a dip in quality to you? Where's about in the series is this point for you where we weren't as impressed with? I'm just kind of curious to hear some non-spoiler thoughts in it. From the brief comment I don't think I have read something that sounds like that event. Read Cerebus to the end. It gets very uneven after Church & State II, but Melmoth was really the only volume that failed to impress me at all. Even as Sim gets more and more erratic with his scope and messages, he's still the greatest genius the comic book medium ever had, and every volume delivers this to varying extents. Plus, the end of Form and Void blew me away. You MUST at least read that far. |
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Post by benday-dot on Jun 8, 2014 19:21:53 GMT -5
These days I seem to have turned into more of an "art" guy than "writer" guy so my order of preference is going to reflect that:
1) 30's/ 40's... I know you are saying best art??!! Well, i have really come to adore the golden age of comics. The art is primitive, but vibrant. It was a purity of 4 colour glory. The scenarios are outrageous, but deliciously fun. Everything was new, and the formulas and censors hadn't fully taken hold of the industry. Anything seemed possible.
2) the 60's.... the Marvel age of comics was a revolution that exploded from the page. Kirby, Ditko, Colan, Buscema... there was power in them pencils. And the stories were breezy and a blast. And then we get the beginning of Warren as well.
3) the 70's... this decade would be higher if I let nostalgia rule. This was the decade in which I discovered comics and all the great experiences of my youth are from this period. Kirby and the gods, Gerber, Starlin, Englehart, Wrightson, Gulacy, Kaluta, Windsor-Smith
4) the 50's... the art here was great as well. EC and the Fleagles, Powell, Elias, Palais. Some of the very best in comic art emerged in the 50's
5) the 80's... the best writing comics had seen. They grew up and Moore, Miller and others were scripting the hell out of their books. Comics hadn't yet fallen prey to complete decompression. No writing for trades yet. The storytelling was grown up, powerful and left you wanting more.
6) the 00's... Some great stuff is being written now. But I HATE decompression and comics that can be read in 5 minutes or less. It takes me longer to read a 5 page 50's anthology piece than a 20 pager written today. Still, some fantastic stuff is being written today, once the stories come together. Especially by Image.
7) the 90's... I haven't read a lot of 90's so there
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Post by gothos on Jun 8, 2014 19:51:07 GMT -5
I'm still a little dubious that you've read that much 1960s Batman. Between Batman, Detective and World's Finest, I own about 80+ issues from the 1960s...isn't that a representative sample of (just) those 3? I've also read Batman From the 30s - 70s. I prefer the Death of The Family (Joker) story line, or any single issue within it, to Batman #186 with Gaggy. To me, this was just pure 1966 camp. Personal trivia note: the Gaggy issue was the first "realistic" superhero comic I bought-- i.e., not a funny animal like Mighty Mouse, etc. I bought it in reaction to the 1966 series, and w/o question the comic was *trying* to be camp, though it failed miserably. Only occasionally did the comic get the camp thing right |
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Jun 8, 2014 21:26:15 GMT -5
Fanboy, sharper ... Will I get continued development with either Astoria or Jaka and Cerebus' relationship in all this. They are three most interesting characters to me.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Jun 8, 2014 22:02:55 GMT -5
I don't really have a favorite. I've been reading more stuff from the '40s in the last couple years, and I'm surprised how much I dig it.
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Post by Action Ace on Jun 8, 2014 22:36:23 GMT -5
I'll go ahead and be the iconoclast. The position has been filled.  I guess I would have liked the 1980s comics more if I had continued reading them as a teen. On the other hand, reading Crisis on Infinite Earths might have made be stop reading them forever. JLA Annual #2 might have done the trick as well. I'd say it all worked out for the best. |
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Jun 8, 2014 23:36:31 GMT -5
Fanboy, sharper ... Will I get continued development with either Astoria or Jaka and Cerebus' relationship in all this. They are three most interesting characters to me. Yes. (Side note: I thought Melmoth was great.) |
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Post by Hoosier X on Jun 8, 2014 23:52:50 GMT -5
The New Look Joker stories are pretty dismal, but there were quite a few great Joker stories in the 1950s and even a few good ones up to 1963.
The Joker's Journal
The Crazy Crime Clown
The Joker's Millions
The Great Clayface/Joker Feud
The Joker's Utility Belt
That's for starters.
And yes, the Joker Fish story is awesome. Not just the best Joker story, it's also the second best Batman story (after The Origin of Batman from Batman #47).
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Post by Hoosier X on Jun 9, 2014 0:14:37 GMT -5
The 1960s are my favorite. But I didn't list my second favorite because I think every other decade would be tied for second because there's good and bad material in every decade. The 1960s stand out because so many of my very favorite comics (Lee/Ditko Spider-Man, Lee/Ditko Doctor Strange, Lee/Kirby Fantastic Four, Lee/Thomas/various artists on Avengers, 1960s Superman family comics, Steranko SHIELD, The Metal Men, etc.) were published in the 1960s.
But take a decade like the 2000 to 2010 era. Identity Crisis is pretty dumb and wreaks havoc on the Silver Age for no good reason, Hush looks nice, but is actually full of very lazy writing and Final Crisis is just a mess. (It mostly looks nice.) But the same decade gave us Heart of Hush, the Power Girl series, the Stephanie Brown Batgirl series, Pipeline and the Batwoman series (both in Detective) and All-Star Superman, all things I like. Also Alan Moore's The Black Dossier. And Top Ten? That's from after 2000, isn't it?
I could do this for every decade.
And I hope future critical comments on the 1960s are a little more cogent than: Gaggy was dumb. Gaggy was from the 1960s. Therefore, 1960s comics are dumb.
It's no more fair than judging the late 1990s by The Long Halloween.
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