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Post by Hoosier X on Jun 9, 2014 19:15:24 GMT -5
I agree that there must have been a sales increase or the editors wouldn't have kept featuring Batwoman and Bat-Mite. We should keep in mind, though, that it was probably only a small spike, since the relatively low sales of the book overall *are cited* as the reason for the changeover to Julie Schwartz. Batman still had huge numbers as late as 1959 and 1960. (Keep in mind that Batwoman started in 1956 (I think she pre-dates the Flash revival) and Bat-Mite started in 1959.) And these "low numbers" we're talking about are still probably around 150,000 copies sold.
(I don't believe the rumor that they were actually considering canceling Batman or Detective. If his numbers had gotten so bad that cancelation was considered, I doubt that he would have been appearing in Batman, Detective and World's Finest. Batman's numbers had just gotten a lot lower than Superman, and that was worrisome to DC.)
But the numbers did slump by 1962 and 1963. Batman looked too much like a 1940s comic book whereas all the other comics looked more modern. A change was needed. And it worked! Batman was HUGE for most of the 1960s.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2014 19:17:31 GMT -5
Luthor's Finest Hour  I never liked that clunky,ugly-colored super suit he wore in the later 70s. Always wearing his prisoner uniform in the 60s meant he knew subconsciously he'd get caught Wasn't it an imaginary story though?? I first read it in one of those blue ribbon digests....but knowing that Superman was still being published meant I knew he wasn't really dead. Although I'm not sure what readers back in the 60s thought if they were reading their Superman books as they came along. It's also funny that the Kryptonian judge referred to a (nazi?) german criminal instead of someone else of Kryptonian origin in the Phantom Zone...  |
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Post by Hoosier X on Jun 9, 2014 19:20:56 GMT -5
Luthor's Finest Hour I never liked that clunky,ugly-colored super suit he wore in the later 70s. Always wearing his prisoner uniform in the 60s meant he knew subconsciously he'd get caught Prison uniform Luthor is my favorite, but I liked ugly-colored super-suit Luthor as a change of pace (and because it was what he was wearing in Joker #7 and Batman #293, where he testified about how he killed Batman). I also like the battle suit he wore for a short time right before the Crisis.
Businessman Luthor is sooooo boring. I can see why they tried it out for a while, but it really wasn't that clever an idea to begin with and now it seems to be the go-to Luthor with every reboot.
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Post by Phil Maurice on Jun 9, 2014 19:21:55 GMT -5
Luthor's Finest Hour Seconded! Lex leaped to the top of the "Countdown" (to crip from Kasey Kasem) with that appearance in Superman #149, the most traumatizing comic I ever read as a tot. The panels where he gloats over a suffering Superman still make me queasy. JKCarrier said once that Luthor was "never more rotten" than in that story. Sums him up perfectly. It's the reason I'll always hate him more than anyone else, even Osborn. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2014 19:31:51 GMT -5
Wasn't it an imaginary story though?? Aren't they all imaginary stories? -M |
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Post by gothos on Jun 9, 2014 19:37:41 GMT -5
I agree that there must have been a sales increase or the editors wouldn't have kept featuring Batwoman and Bat-Mite. We should keep in mind, though, that it was probably only a small spike, since the relatively low sales of the book overall *are cited* as the reason for the changeover to Julie Schwartz. Batman still had huge numbers as late as 1959 and 1960. (Keep in mind that Batwoman started in 1956 (I think she pre-dates the Flash revival) and Bat-Mite started in 1959.) And these "low numbers" we're talking about are still probably around 150,000 copies sold.
(I don't believe the rumor that they were actually considering canceling Batman or Detective. If his numbers had gotten so bad that cancelation was considered, I doubt that he would have been appearing in Batman, Detective and World's Finest. Batman's numbers had just gotten a lot lower than Superman, and that was worrisome to DC.)
But the numbers did slump by 1962 and 1963. Batman looked too much like a 1940s comic book whereas all the other comics looked more modern. A change was needed. And it worked! Batman was HUGE for most of the 1960s.
That's why I put asterisks around the words "are cited," because it's a familiar story but only the people who were actually there really know if things happened that way. I also think it's very unlikely they would have cancelled Batman; that sounds like hyperbole. I remember seeing one 1960s sales chart citing Wonder Woman's sales as much lower than Batman's. OTOH it doesn't sound like Batman was seeing much merchandising in the early 60s, and that was where the real money was, even then. A sales shot in the arm might've been desired to also make the character more appealing in that respect-- though I have the impression that William Dozier may have become acquainted with the Schiff version first. |
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Jun 9, 2014 20:35:14 GMT -5
Luthor's Finest Hour I never liked that clunky,ugly-colored super suit he wore in the later 70s. Always wearing his prisoner uniform in the 60s meant he knew subconsciously he'd get caught Wasn't it an imaginary story though?? I first read it in one of those blue ribbon digests....but knowing that Superman was still being published meant I knew he wasn't really dead. Although I'm not sure what readers back in the 60s thought if they were reading their Superman books as they came along. It's also funny that the Kryptonian judge referred to a (nazi?) german criminal instead of someone else of Kryptonian origin in the Phantom Zone... Yes,all stories are imaginary.Also when this comic came out,death was an extremely rare occurance in comics.Between the comics code and the censorship standards in movies and TV,kids were not subjected to extreme violence.No violent video games as well.This issue would be very shocking to a child of the 60s In the real world at this point in time,a high ranking nazi fugitive ,Eichmann,was caught by the Israelis and put on public trial on TV.it was one of that years top news stories |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jun 9, 2014 20:36:01 GMT -5
They didn't dare cancel Wonder Woman no matter her low numbers.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2014 20:40:10 GMT -5
Wasn't it an imaginary story though?? Aren't they all imaginary stories? -M Usually the others are connected in some way where continuity is concerned...not distinct, separate stories... Although series like What If? still had some interesting interpretations.... |
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Jun 9, 2014 20:52:37 GMT -5
there never seems to be much love for crumb or shelton here - no fans? I am! I know Rob Allen and I both picked Fat Freddy's Cat as one of our favorite short run titles a couple classic Christmas's ago. Victor Moscoso is one of my favorite artists, period. It's weird, but the divide between '60s/'70s Underground Fans and mainstream comics fans is pretty huge. There just aren't that many guys on both sides of the divide. I've beaten my head on the freaking monitor plenty of times trying to explain why Crumb was so GD important, I tell you what... |
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Post by Hoosier X on Jun 9, 2014 22:52:18 GMT -5
I saw the documentary Crumb when it opened in Los Angeles. It was playing at the Nuart theater on Wilshire. (It's not too far from UCLA.) We went to the first show on Saturday afternoon. It was packed! We got our tickets and went looking for seats, and there weren't any seats! The management came in and apologized and said they had overbooked the theater by about 30 seats and those of us without seats could get passes for another show. No one took passes. Somebody asked if we could sit on the floor and they said OK. So there were 30 of us (including me and my date) sitting cross-legged on the floor watching Crumb.
It was pretty awesome!
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Post by Action Ace on Jun 9, 2014 22:58:50 GMT -5
Not everything was better in the 1960s.
How about *UGH* Classic Krusty?
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Post by hondobrode on Jun 10, 2014 3:37:06 GMT -5
there never seems to be much love for crumb or shelton here - no fans? I am! I know Rob Allen and I both picked Fat Freddy's Cat as one of our favorite short run titles a couple classic Christmas's ago. Victor Moscoso is one of my favorite artists, period. It's weird, but the divide between '60s/'70s Underground Fans and mainstream comics fans is pretty huge. There just aren't that many guys on both sides of the divide. I've beaten my head on the freaking monitor plenty of times trying to explain why Crumb was so GD important, I tell you what... I'm with you guys. Seems like lots of fans don't know about the undergrounds, but I love Crumb, Shelton, Corben, Kim Deitch, S. Clay Wilson, Frank Stack, Jaxon, Trina Robbins, Bill Griffith... I'm traveling and won't have time until this weekend it give it the proper thought and notes and some kind of quantitive system to help me decide and sort The Good, The Bad and The Ugly. Yes, the underground was being thrown around in my head as well. |
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,860
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Post by shaxper on Jun 10, 2014 3:55:04 GMT -5
I'll readily concede that I have zero interest in the undergrounds, and I even live in Harvey Pekar's old stomping grounds. I think it's because what draws me most to comics is neither the medium nor the art -- it's the characterization and (sometimes) the epic storytelling. To the best of my knowledge, I won't find much of either in the 70s Underground stuff unless you're talking Art Speigelman's Maus (which I do appreciate).
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Post by Icctrombone on Jun 10, 2014 6:55:17 GMT -5
I'll readily concede that I have zero interest in the undergrounds, and I even live in Harvey Pekar's old stomping grounds. I think it's because what draws me most to comics is neither the medium nor the art -- it's the characterization and (sometimes) the epic storytelling. To the best of my knowledge, I won't find much of either in the 70s Underground stuff unless you're talking Art Speigelman's Maus (which I do appreciate). Shax, you read my mind. I never had interest in underground or funny animal comics. I just don't get the fascination for Donald duck et al. |
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