|
|
Post by fanboystranger on Jun 10, 2014 9:59:17 GMT -5
I am! I know Rob Allen and I both picked Fat Freddy's Cat as one of our favorite short run titles a couple classic Christmas's ago. Victor Moscoso is one of my favorite artists, period. It's weird, but the divide between '60s/'70s Underground Fans and mainstream comics fans is pretty huge. There just aren't that many guys on both sides of the divide. I've beaten my head on the freaking monitor plenty of times trying to explain why Crumb was so GD important, I tell you what... I'm with you guys. Seems like lots of fans don't know about the undergrounds, but I love Crumb, Shelton, Corben, Kim Deitch, S. Clay Wilson, Frank Stack, Jaxon, Trina Robbins, Bill Griffith... I'm traveling and won't have time until this weekend it give it the proper thought and notes and some kind of quantitive system to help me decide and sort The Good, The Bad and The Ugly. Yes, the underground was being thrown around in my head as well. You need some Spain on the list!
I tend to engage with many of the undergrounds from a historical and craft context rather than enjoying them as entertainment. (Shelton's a big exception.) I get the importance and influence, but I don't always *get it*, if that makes sense. Many are flat out briliant comics, but like the second half of Cerebus, I can't say that I necessarily enjoy them even as I recognize their brilliance.
|
|
|
|
Post by MDG on Jun 10, 2014 10:38:48 GMT -5
I'm with you guys. Seems like lots of fans don't know about the undergrounds, but I love Crumb, Shelton, Corben, Kim Deitch, S. Clay Wilson, Frank Stack, Jaxon, Trina Robbins, Bill Griffith... I'm traveling and won't have time until this weekend it give it the proper thought and notes and some kind of quantitive system to help me decide and sort The Good, The Bad and The Ugly. Yes, the underground was being thrown around in my head as well. You need some Spain on the list!
I tend to engage with many of the undergrounds from a historical and craft context rather than enjoying them as entertainment. (Shelton's a big exception.) I get the importance and influence, but I don't always *get it*, if that makes sense. Many are flat out briliant comics, but like the second half of Cerebus, I can't say that I necessarily enjoy them even as I recognize their brilliance.
Even though I have a bunch of the real undergrounds (say '68-'73) and really like them, I think a lot of the underground creators (Crumb, Deitch, Spain, Griffith, Speigelman, etc) did a lot of their best work in the 80s and later. |
|
|
|
Post by Cei-U! on Jun 10, 2014 12:51:22 GMT -5
Count me among the super-hero fans who also dig the underground guys. I especially get into the folks like Victor Moscoso and Robert Williams who experimented with non-linear, even abstract storytelling. I've given up most of my undergrounds, including complete runs of Zap and Weirdo, during a downsizing a decade or two back but I did retain my Freak Brothers, Fat Freddy's Cat and Cartoon History of the Universe runs.
Cei-U!
I summon Trashman and the Checkered Demon!
|
|
shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,860
|
Post by shaxper on Jun 10, 2014 14:16:16 GMT -5
I'll readily concede that I have zero interest in the undergrounds, and I even live in Harvey Pekar's old stomping grounds. I think it's because what draws me most to comics is neither the medium nor the art -- it's the characterization and (sometimes) the epic storytelling. To the best of my knowledge, I won't find much of either in the 70s Underground stuff unless you're talking Art Speigelman's Maus (which I do appreciate). Shax, you read my mind. I never had interest in underground or funny animal comics. I just don't get the fascination for Donald duck et al. Well Donald Duck DOES have strong characterization and epic storytelling when done right. Sometimes, he's the most human character in comicdom, so I'm a huge Ducks fan. I wouldn't group them with the Underground creators, and I think they'd probably agree. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2014 15:45:56 GMT -5
I have a decent collection of undergrounds. I like the longer running ones, particularly the magazines. So I have decent (but not complete) runs of American Splendor, Bizarre Sex, Weirdo, Arcade. What I tend to not like is the ones that lasted one or two issues. I had some regrets on Cocaine Comix and a couple others. For a little while I was buying up undergrounds like crazy, but after a handful of bad ones I stopped. I'll probably still try to buy up the ones I'll like while trying to avoid the ones I won't sooner or later.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2014 22:15:10 GMT -5
What is the correct definition of an underground comic?
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2014 22:25:34 GMT -5
I think it varies, but a self published or alternatively published comic from the 60's or 70's with counterculture subject matter or authored by a creator who came from the counterculture. Basically hippie comics that were originally sold in head shops, and then anything the guys who made those comics later did.
|
|
|
|
Post by hondobrode on Jun 10, 2014 22:27:10 GMT -5
Comic books and comic strips, especially of the underground press: "the countercultural . . . comix of the sixties and early seventies, with their explicit criticism of American society" (Lloyd Rose).
Pre-cursors to the indie scene. We're traditionally sold through music stores and head shops.
|
|
|
|
Post by berkley on Jun 11, 2014 1:07:22 GMT -5
there never seems to be much love for crumb or shelton here - no fans? I am! I know Rob Allen and I both picked Fat Freddy's Cat as one of our favorite short run titles a couple classic Christmas's ago. Victor Moscoso is one of my favorite artists, period. It's weird, but the divide between '60s/'70s Underground Fans and mainstream comics fans is pretty huge. There just aren't that many guys on both sides of the divide. I've beaten my head on the freaking monitor plenty of times trying to explain why Crumb was so GD important, I tell you what... If anyone ever feels like starting a thread devoted to the Undergrounds I'd be a very interested reader, though probably not much of a contributor, except for asking a lot of dumb questions. I knew nothing about them at the time, and have varied feelings about what I've seen after the fact, but remain curious. |
|
|
|
Post by MDG on Jun 11, 2014 5:39:57 GMT -5
If it wasn't for undergrounds, I probably never would've stayed into comics after I turned 14 or 15, since they led me to ECs and to go to my first couple conventions. My early goal was to be published in an underground before I was legally able to buy them.
|
|
|
|
Post by Rob Allen on Jun 11, 2014 10:30:56 GMT -5
There are those who say that what we call the "direct market" is just the same distribution system that the undergrounds used. Phil Seuling's innovation was to convince DC and Marvel to sell comics the same way the underground publishers had been doing it for years. And when underground comix first got started, they were sold thru an existing network that was created to distribute psychedelic concert posters.
So next time you visit your LCS to collect your pull box, thank a hippie.
|
|
|
|
Post by Nowhere Man on Jun 11, 2014 10:40:53 GMT -5
I've been considering getting into Fantagraphics Complete Crumb series. I'm a huge fan of Crumb's cartooning style and talent, and love his humorous and satirical stuff. I'm not a big fan of the graphically sexual stuff, to be honest, so I've been holding back for years.
|
|
|
|
Post by MDG on Jun 11, 2014 12:29:24 GMT -5
There are those who say that what we call the "direct market" is just the same distribution system that the undergrounds used. Phil Seuling's innovation was to convince DC and Marvel to sell comics the same way the underground publishers had been doing it for years. And when underground comix first got started, they were sold thru an existing network that was created to distribute psychedelic concert posters. I think I bought my first undergrounds at one of Seuling's NYC cons--Corben stuff that I was hot on after seeing hiw work at Warren. But I got most of them through Denis Kitchen's mail order business. I was afraid that my folks would find the catalog, which was 75% pipes, rolling papers, etc. Had to sign a certification on the order form that I was over 18, though obviously they had no way of checking it. I think I only saw comix in a head shop once--about a half-dozen uninteresting titles that had obviously been read before. Bought them anyway. |
|
|
|
Post by Reptisaurus! on Jun 11, 2014 20:52:38 GMT -5
If anyone ever feels like starting a thread devoted to the Undergrounds I'd be a very interested reader, though probably not much of a contributor, except for asking a lot of dumb questions. I knew nothing about them at the time, and have varied feelings about what I've seen after the fact, but remain curious. My underground knowledge is pretty superficial and obvious, honestly. I've read a lot of Zap, Gilbert Shelton and Kim Deitch stuff, but I don't know much more than the really obvious stuff that everyone knows. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2014 21:09:00 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm not super knowledgeable about them either, but I like them and have a little stack. If someone wants to start a thread I'll participate where I can.
|
|
