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Post by coke & comics on May 1, 2015 23:17:24 GMT -5
What are your thoughts, oh fans of classic comics?
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Post by coke & comics on May 1, 2015 23:19:24 GMT -5
I was very disappointed there was no end-of-credits scene, especially when the perfect scene was just sitting there, the final page of Avengers #57. On a similar note, I am also disappointed that at no point did the Vision cry.
That said, I think I was excellent. Better than the first, and one of the best superhero films I have ever seen.
After some time has passed and I have watched it a few more times, I will solidify my opinions some. For now, they are pretty positive.
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Post by hondobrode on May 2, 2015 19:19:28 GMT -5
I liked it a lot, probably more than the first, but, it was a fairly dense story that I think most people weren't fully capable of understanding. Maybe I'm wrong, but being objective that's my honest opinion.
One weird thing, for me, was the Eastern European accents of Wanda and Pietro. I'd never "heard" their voices like that, but it makes perfect sense, though I don't think the movie explained her powers very well.
Loved the Vision picking up Thor's hammer and Clint taking the team back to Iowa (Iowa boy here).
Quicksilver came off really well I thought.
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Post by spoon on May 2, 2015 20:03:52 GMT -5
I liked it in general. I think it was very good at what it was trying to be - a popcorn action movie with a good bit of humor sprinkled in. But I think the ability to harness deeper human drama is hamstrung by the very large cast, the need to set up further films, and the focus on RDJ as Iron Man. Having said that, I liked it a lot more than Winter Soldier or Iron Man 3.
On the plus side, I really like Wanda and Pietro. The way they depicted their powers was cool, and they were portrayed very well. I really wish Clint had taken those bullets instead of Pietro. I liked the little of Wanda and the Vision in the future. There was one cut which made it look like she was looking at him in awe, and then of course, he saves her.
I thought they did a good job with choreographing action sequences. Whedon does a great job with humor, too. Having Thor be the one to learn of the Infinity Stones worked really well. I think I actually liked Thor better than the other members of The Big 3 in Age of Ultron. I feel like he was underutilized. That may be a function of the Iron Man and Cap movies grossing more money and the need to create momentum for Civil War.
Personally, I like the closing that set up a new Avengers line-up. I'm worried that casual fans won't feel the same way though.
On the negative side, while I can see what they were trying to do with the Bruce/Natasha romance in theory, it felt forced. I did think Scarlett Johansson was very good in the scene where she talked about being sterilized. (I never expected to type a sentence like that in my life). I also think I know the intention behind Hawkeye's hidden family, but I don't think his family exuded enough charisma to make those scenes interesting.
I'm also not sure why they decided to make Dr. Cho such a big character. By googling, I found she's apparently an actual comics character. Never heard of her. She seemed like one of those flat characters who just exist to move the plot along, and yet she had a huge part. In contrast, prior movies have done a good job at making Dr. Selvig likeable.
Vision is a mixed bag. I like him as a character. I thought the reveal was good. But the Vision is so awesome, I think he could've been even better in the movie. Even though some would probably call it cliched, I'd prefer to see an arc of adjustment to humanness. Instead, he seemed very self-aware and poised from the start.
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Post by coke & comics on May 2, 2015 23:03:56 GMT -5
I liked it in general. I think it was very good at what it was trying to be - a popcorn action movie with a good bit of humor sprinkled in. But I think the ability to harness deeper human drama is hamstrung by the very large cast, the need to set up further films, and the focus on RDJ as Iron Man. Having said that, I liked it a lot more than Winter Soldier or Iron Man 3. On the plus side, I really like Wanda and Pietro. The way they depicted their powers was cool, and they were portrayed very well. I really wish Clint had taken those bullets instead of Pietro. I liked the little of Wanda and the Vision in the future. There was one cut which made it look like she was looking at him in awe, and then of course, he saves her. I thought they did a good job with choreographing action sequences. Whedon does a great job with humor, too. Having Thor be the one to learn of the Infinity Stones worked really well. I think I actually liked Thor better than the other members of The Big 3 in Age of Ultron. I feel like he was underutilized. That may be a function of the Iron Man and Cap movies grossing more money and the need to create momentum for Civil War. Personally, I like the closing that set up a new Avengers line-up. I'm worried that casual fans won't feel the same way though. On the negative side, while I can see what they were trying to do with the Bruce/Natasha romance in theory, it felt forced. I did think Scarlett Johansson was very good in the scene where she talked about being sterilized. (I never expected to type a sentence like that in my life). I also think I know the intention behind Hawkeye's hidden family, but I don't think his family exuded enough charisma to make those scenes interesting. I'm also not sure why they decided to make Dr. Cho such a big character. By googling, I found she's apparently an actual comics character. Never heard of her. She seemed like one of those flat characters who just exist to move the plot along, and yet she had a huge part. In contrast, prior movies have done a good job at making Dr. Selvig likeable. Vision is a mixed bag. I like him as a character. I thought the reveal was good. But the Vision is so awesome, I think he could've been even better in the movie. Even though some would probably call it cliched, I'd prefer to see an arc of adjustment to humanness. Instead, he seemed very self-aware and poised from the start. She is a minor comic character. It's her son, Amadeus Cho, who joins the Avengers. I will admit when I first half-glimpsed an asian woman in the trailers, I was really hoping for Mantis. I didn't share most of your complaints, but upon reflection, Vision did seem a bit too "perfect". Maybe we'll see him develop more in the second film. I thought the Hawkeye reveal was quite well done, and loved Linda Cardellini in the role. One of the centerpieces of the film, I thought. I was also fond of the Bruce/Natasha romance. It seemed to be a good move, and I thought Whedon made it work. It seemed to come naturally out of the idea that she could be the one to calm down his Hulk side. And it all built to a great final scene with Hulk. I love the new lineup at closing. Avengers as I think of it didn't really take shape until issue 16, when the torch was first passed. I like that there is a rotating cast of heroes, who feel some reverence at the honor of serving on the team. That's Avengers to me, and seeing the new team at the end was the movies finally becoming about the Avengers as I know them. |
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Post by spoon on May 2, 2015 23:27:12 GMT -5
I liked it in general. I think it was very good at what it was trying to be - a popcorn action movie with a good bit of humor sprinkled in. But I think the ability to harness deeper human drama is hamstrung by the very large cast, the need to set up further films, and the focus on RDJ as Iron Man. Having said that, I liked it a lot more than Winter Soldier or Iron Man 3. On the plus side, I really like Wanda and Pietro. The way they depicted their powers was cool, and they were portrayed very well. I really wish Clint had taken those bullets instead of Pietro. I liked the little of Wanda and the Vision in the future. There was one cut which made it look like she was looking at him in awe, and then of course, he saves her. I thought they did a good job with choreographing action sequences. Whedon does a great job with humor, too. Having Thor be the one to learn of the Infinity Stones worked really well. I think I actually liked Thor better than the other members of The Big 3 in Age of Ultron. I feel like he was underutilized. That may be a function of the Iron Man and Cap movies grossing more money and the need to create momentum for Civil War. Personally, I like the closing that set up a new Avengers line-up. I'm worried that casual fans won't feel the same way though. On the negative side, while I can see what they were trying to do with the Bruce/Natasha romance in theory, it felt forced. I did think Scarlett Johansson was very good in the scene where she talked about being sterilized. (I never expected to type a sentence like that in my life). I also think I know the intention behind Hawkeye's hidden family, but I don't think his family exuded enough charisma to make those scenes interesting. I'm also not sure why they decided to make Dr. Cho such a big character. By googling, I found she's apparently an actual comics character. Never heard of her. She seemed like one of those flat characters who just exist to move the plot along, and yet she had a huge part. In contrast, prior movies have done a good job at making Dr. Selvig likeable. Vision is a mixed bag. I like him as a character. I thought the reveal was good. But the Vision is so awesome, I think he could've been even better in the movie. Even though some would probably call it cliched, I'd prefer to see an arc of adjustment to humanness. Instead, he seemed very self-aware and poised from the start. She is a minor comic character. It's her son, Amadeus Cho, who joins the Avengers. I will admit when I first half-glimpsed an asian woman in the trailers, I was really hoping for Mantis. I didn't share most of your complaints, but upon reflection, Vision did seem a bit too "perfect". Maybe we'll see him develop more in the second film. I thought the Hawkeye reveal was quite well done, and loved Linda Cardellini in the role. One of the centerpieces of the film, I thought. I was also fond of the Bruce/Natasha romance. It seemed to be a good move, and I thought Whedon made it work. It seemed to come naturally out of the idea that she could be the one to calm down his Hulk side. And it all built to a great final scene with Hulk. I love the new lineup at closing. Avengers as I think of it didn't really take shape until issue 16, when the torch was first passed. I like that there is a rotating cast of heroes, who feel some reverence at the honor of serving on the team. That's Avengers to me, and seeing the new team at the end was the movies finally becoming about the Avengers as I know them. Maybe my criticisms come across as more negative that I intend. I liked the movie. It's just an impossibly high bar of hype and I liked X-Men: Days of Future Past better. The Bruce/Natasha romance worked on some levels, but it would resonate more if there was more of a hint of it before. When reading Avengers comics, I tend to gravitate toward the characters who don't have a solo book. That's why I like the Vision in the comics, and I personally was pleased to see the new line-up at the end of the movie. I just hope fans respond. I wonder whether that's the line-up we'll see at the beginning of Infinity War - Part 1, or whether the line-up will be changed between films based on Civil War. |
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Crimebuster
CCF Podcast Guru
Making comics!
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Post by Crimebuster on May 3, 2015 2:23:24 GMT -5
I pretty much loved it. It wasn't perfect, though.
I think most of the problems with the film were due to editing. From what I've read, Joss Whedon's first edit of the film was over 3 hours long. To get it down to size, they had to chop out a lot of stuff, which resulted in some elements of the plot being choppy to the point of near incomprehension, and a lot of the character bits seeming to be rushed or forced. I agree with spoon's thoughts on the Widow/Hulk relationship. I thought it felt a bit forced, and needed more room to breathe - which it likely had in both the script and the first cut before everything was trimmed down. I bet an extended director's cut will be better.
It would probably also make the Thor dream sequence / reflecting pool visions thing make some kind of sense. There were clips in the trailer from this sequence that were cut out of the film, so we know more was filmed with this; I'm guessing this was initially explained it much more detail, which was cut down to bare bones in the finished movie. This bit was almost gibberish for me, so I can only imagine what a non-comics fan might have gotten from it.
As for the Vision, I have a theory on why they did his personality the way they did, with him self-aware and polished from the get go - calm and almost... transcended... rather than brooding and conflicted as he was in the comics.
Basically, he seemed very, very Adam Warlock to me. I've been wondering, like a lot of fans, when they were going to introduce Warlock, who would seem to be necessary for Infinity War. I think the answer might be that Vision is going to take Warlock's place in the movies. That's just a guess, but man, he really felt like Warlock in a lot of places - not only does he come out of a cocoon, with an Infinity Gem on his forehead, but he immediately proclaims himself as the champion of life - then proves it by being worthy to lift Thor's hammer. As this self-proclaimed champion of life, it sets Vision in perfect opposition to Thanos as the disciple of death. Vision also seemed almost above humanity - an observer and caretaker - in his final conversation with Ultron.
I might be way off base, but even while the movie was going, I was thinking, "wow, this is all very Adam Warlocky!"
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Post by coke & comics on May 3, 2015 12:31:04 GMT -5
"You walk out that door, you are an Avenger"
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2015 15:10:40 GMT -5
Both Amy and I loved it. I thought the emotional bits worked well within their allotted time-the movie wasn't a drama and had to keep the momentum of the main plot moving forward so as not to lose the casual audience there to see a popcorn flick, so it couldn't pause and delve too long, but there was enough there to give the characters some depth and to give the audience a hook into the emotional core of the plot and the characters so they could invest in it. Even the little bits with Falcon and War Machine at the initial party served to bring them into the fold and allow their reappearance later (War Machine moreso but even the Falcon in the final scene) to have an immediate payoff for the audience. As a fan of the characters, I'd be interested in seeing the deleted bits Scott was mentioning, but as a filmgoer I understand the decision to keep the movie trimmer (even if it was 2 1/2 hours long) and keep the momentum going for the general audience.
-M
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2015 15:30:27 GMT -5
I was in awe of this movie and although it's has some flaws (quite minor) in this movie and I thoroughly enjoyed seeing so many characters it's baffled me completely that they all worked together flawlessly with great respect and reasons. I just give this movie two thumbs up and then some and I enjoyed the photography, special effects, and totally an epic film in the making. It's had class, dignity, and honor. I just loved Vision, Scarlet Witch, Black Widow, and unison of Iron Man and War Machine working together, and most importantly the big guns - Captain America, Thor, and the Hulk did their role superbly. I was surprised to see Nick Fury in a prominent role. Shield Presence was felt at the right time in the movie.
I give this movie a 4 1/2 to 5 Stars rating.
I will be seeing it again in a week with some friends.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2015 16:59:29 GMT -5
The other funny moment in theatre going with Age of Ultron-listening to the two people a few rows behind us arguing whether the pink and purple guy in the mid-credit scene was the same pink and purple guy in GoTG....and having their grade school age daughter emphatically settle their disagreement.
-M
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2015 12:06:23 GMT -5
I thought the various dream / nightmare sequences were far too long, and really hurt the pace of the film - the first hour was way too slow, for me.
I also have a problem with the film being too similar to the first one - mind control of the main characters? check; city in peril and avengers having to hustle everyone out of the way? check; hordes of cannon fodder for the enemy? check.
There were some nice bits of business around the hammer, and a cute reference to the first film around the hour mark where Hulkbuster Iron Man sucker-punches the Hulk, but that just took way too long to get there.
Regarding Scott's comments on the editing - I think the film was really hurt by having to include setups for following films - that whole Wakanda / Ulysses Klaw section could easily have been cut out without hurting the film, but would then not have set up the Black Panther film.
Like I said on the other thread, it's not a bad film, but the bar had been raised by the first one, and I think this didn't achieve that level.
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Post by coke & comics on May 4, 2015 13:42:04 GMT -5
I'm planning to watch it again soon. But at the moment my opinion is that this is certainly better than the first one. To my mind the first one has three strengths: Tom Hiddleston as Loki, Mark Ruffalo as Hulk, and an excellent extended action climax in the Battle of New York. Leading up to that action climax is the occasional good action scene and good character moments here and there-- but nothing about the opening would I call an excellent movie.
This one seemed to work all the way through.
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Post by dupersuper on May 4, 2015 19:38:23 GMT -5
I thought it was great. Even with his rushed origin, Ultron was one of the better Marvel movie villains (often one of their weaknesses). I'd have been happy to watch another half hour of the party scene. The new heroes and heroes/supporting characters that popped in from the other Marvel movies were great. It was odd seeing Iron Man more concerned with civilian safety than Superman in his last movie. Overall it may join Avengers 1, Cap 1 and 2, Iron Man 1 and GotG on my list of favourite Marvel movies. I'm looking forward to Ant Man (and Inhumans, Spider-Man, Black Panther, Doctor Strange, Captain Marvel, Cap 3, Thor 3 and Avengers 3 parts 1 & 2...).
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Post by clutterstuffmichael on May 5, 2015 0:49:00 GMT -5
I loved it. I liked the first one, but I think I prefer this one. Not saying it is necessarily a better movie, but the Vision was one of my favorite comic book Avengers and I felt that this movie version captured him perfectly. Anyone notice just how close we are getting to the late 80s West Coast Avengers? Hawkeye, Vision, Scarlet Witch, Rhodey as Iron Man/War Machine. Bring in Bobbi/Mockingbird from Agents of SHIELD and it's almost the whole lineup. (Heck, we could even bring in Michael Douglas's "Dr. Pym" from Ant-Man to cover his run in the WCA.) I hope this is ok---I posted a more detailed review of the movie (with spoilers) on my blog: clutterstuff95zine.wordpress.com/2015/05/01/review-ultron-spoilers/ |
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