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Post by Hoosier X on Nov 14, 2018 20:20:22 GMT -5
It's too bad Avenatti isn't a Republican. This kind of thing only hurts you if you're running as a Democrat.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Nov 14, 2018 20:45:28 GMT -5
It's too bad Avenatti isn't a Republican. This kind of thing only hurts you if you're running as a Democrat. The man is being charged with domestic abuse. While he is innocent until proven guilty, I'm frankly disgusted that you treat the topic so flippantly. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Nov 14, 2018 21:58:15 GMT -5
Don’t mind them They’re good folk with great comic book opinions...just living in the upside down. Outside of a select handful, there’s no way that they can grasp the fact that there are non-racist, non-neoconservative’s who support Trump. It just doesn’t compute...for some reason. I agree..the racism has nothing to do with it. I can't comprehend why anyone could still support this guy... he's literally accomplished nothing he ran on... NAFTA still intact.. no wall, ACA still around (though a guess he weakened it a bit), Hillary's not in jail. Never mind the fact that he's trying hard to ruin the economy that's humming full tilt with his trade war with China. ..and that's ignoring his using twitter as a tool to manipulate the media (which, far from being insane as some thing, is actually a brilliant way of managing the news cycle toward what he wants it to be about). I hate it but at the same time can't ignore it's effectiveness. I mean, I guess if you're a true conservative you hold your nose and be happy he got a Supreme Court nominee in? (no matter the nefarious circumstances) |
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Post by impulse on Nov 14, 2018 23:05:46 GMT -5
It gets harder with each passing day to understand how anyone can defend supporting Trump at this point without being at least tolerant of racism. It would seem to require a stunning amount of willful ignorance at this point to still defend Trump without at least tacitly approving of racist things. The above sentiment, and 'liking it' makes me somewhat regret returning to CCF. If members are going to avoid me on the comic forums because I'm deemed to be a racist (even though I'm not all whitebread) or just disliked and therefore avoided because of Trump-association then there's no point. I don't want to rebuild another list of ignored-members (or be on them myself) as it defeats the entire purpose of being here.
Only planned on visiting for a bit anyway....
This is not an attack, but a serious question. For what reasons do you still support Trump in November of 2018, and how do you reconcile whatever those might be with all of the horrible stuff he says and does, not to mention all of the many crimes he is credibly accused of? I am sincerely curious and would like to understand. Are people just getting their news from say, Fox, who notably hardly covers anything that paints him a bad light and just not realize all of this is going on? Do they think it's all made-up and that all of the other credible news organizations are running some conspiracy? Do the ends justify the means? It cannot be overstated that this is NOT business-as-usual Republicans versus Democrats. |
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Post by impulse on Nov 14, 2018 23:17:17 GMT -5
It's too bad Avenatti isn't a Republican. This kind of thing only hurts you if you're running as a Democrat. The man is being charged with domestic abuse. While he is innocent until proven guilty, I'm frankly disgusted that you treat the topic so flippantly. Hoosier's point, while crudely stated, is not entirely unwarranted. How many Republicans, least of all the president, have been accused of/convicted of/confessed via audio recording to some form of sexual or violent assault or another? For Pete's sake, amidst the Kavanaugh confirmation fiasco, Trump, who confessed to sexual assault on recording and had it aired on national TV, just made fun of Al Franken for resigning so easily amidst relatively much less serious accusations than Kavenaugh was facing at the time. The self-policing moral standard between prominent members of the two parties seems to be a double one, is all. That said, if the claims against Avenatti are true, SCREW that guy in the most serious possible terms. I mean, I guess if you're a true conservative you hold your nose and be happy he got a Supreme Court nominee in? (no matter the nefarious circumstances) That's the crazy thing. Trump is NOT a true conservative. AT ALL. |
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Post by beccabear67 on Nov 15, 2018 0:09:01 GMT -5
I was trying to say with a bit of humor how I don't see a large majority of Trump supporters as motivated by racism, there are things he's said I agreed with like on trade with China, but just not the guy I would want for champion. Still, everyone is good for something and there could be a time (like after he's out) I could admit this or that was a positive. I think Bill Clinton must've done something positive for example, I can't remember what that was, but I think there was something. Oh yeah, and Socks the first cat was cute. Maybe Trumpo should get a pet, I bet Justin Trudeau has one!  A lot of working people honestly don't have the time to follow politics and politicians in detail, and when they do try are probably pretty disgusted by some of it... thus the appeal of the "not a politician" too. |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Nov 15, 2018 7:02:29 GMT -5
I was trying to say with a bit of humor how I don't see a large majority of Trump supporters as motivated by racism, there are things he's said I agreed with like on trade with China, but just not the guy I would want for champion. Still, everyone is good for something and there could be a time (like after he's out) I could admit this or that was a positive. I think Bill Clinton must've done something positive for example, I can't remember what that was, but I think there was something. I am surprised to read that, as Clinton was an excellent president! He inherited an economy that looked like an undending recession and, like Obama, oversaw its recovery. (Agreed, presidents don’t do that on their own, but it still happened under his watch). Bush Sr. had wisely put the U.S. as, shall we say, first among equals when it came to international alliances, and Clinton brilliantly built on that. He was a great deal-maker, able to reach across the aisle, and I remember a quip from his second election campaign : people said the GOP had a difficult time finding a suitable opponent to the president, because the best Republican candidate at the time would have been.... Bill Clinton. I lived five years in the US under Clinton, and without getting into hyperbole, I thought that the US at the time was like a new Athens... promoting free enterprise, democracy and world peace. I find it extremely sad that all he seems to be remembered for is his stupid extra-marital affair. He made his own bed and must lie in it, I suppose, but Clinton’s America was a great one and I wish he was remembered for it. |
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Nov 15, 2018 9:00:44 GMT -5
I find it extremely sad that all he seems to be remembered for is his stupid extra-marital affair. He made his own bed and must lie in it, I suppose, but Clinton’s America was a great one and I wish he was remembered for it. I think this is the case with a lot of U.S. Presidents. I mean, I'm certainly no fan of Richard Nixon, but people forget about his 1972 diplomatic visit to China, which broke through the Iron Curtain and substantially thawed relations between America and Communist China at the height of the Cold War. Then there was his 1971 "War on Cancer", which diverted millions of dollars of federal funds towards research designed to find a cure for the disease. A quick look on Wikipedia tells me that in 1971 the number of survivors of cancer in the U.S. was 3 million and, in 2007, that had increased to over 12 million. The contribution of Nixon's "War on Cancer" to that drastic improvement in numbers shouldn't be overlooked...but it often is. There's also the fact that he ended American involvement in Vietnam in 1973 and negotiated to bring many American POWs home. What history remembers Nixon for is the illegal invasion of Cambodia during the Vietnam War, surrounding himself with racists like Spiro Agnew, disenfranchising black voters, Watergate (and his attendant resignation), and generally being "Tricky" Dick. I'm not saying that that isn't the right way to view his Presidency, but a little more focus on some of the positives of his term in office wouldn't go amiss either. Life isn't black & white. |
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Post by Pharozonk on Nov 15, 2018 10:21:47 GMT -5
Life isn't black & white. Unfortunately, that's a problem with a lot of people's views of politicians on both sides of aisles. At the end of the day, they're just people like me and you. The weird idolization people have of people like Obama or Bush always struck me as odd considering how complex their administrations and subsequent legacies are, both good and bad depending on who you are and what values you align with. |
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Post by thwhtguardian on Nov 15, 2018 10:23:19 GMT -5
I don't often think very highly of Fox News...but today, gold star for you guys!
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Post by Pharozonk on Nov 15, 2018 10:25:49 GMT -5
I was trying to say with a bit of humor how I don't see a large majority of Trump supporters as motivated by racism, there are things he's said I agreed with like on trade with China, but just not the guy I would want for champion. Still, everyone is good for something and there could be a time (like after he's out) I could admit this or that was a positive. I think Bill Clinton must've done something positive for example, I can't remember what that was, but I think there was something. I am surprised to read that, as Clinton was an excellent president! He inherited an economy that looked like an undending recession and, like Obama, oversaw its recovery. (Agreed, presidents don’t do that on their own, but it still happened under his watch). Bush Sr. had wisely put the U.S. as, shall we say, first among equals when it came to international alliances, and Clinton brilliantly built on that. He was a great deal-maker, able to reach across the aisle, and I remember a quip from his second election campaign : people said the GOP had a difficult time finding a suitable opponent to the president, because the best Republican candidate at the time would have been.... Bill Clinton. I lived five years in the US under Clinton, and without getting into hyperbole, I thought that the US at the time was like a new Athens... promoting free enterprise, democracy and world peace. I find it extremely sad that all he seems to be remembered for is his stupid extra-marital affair. He made his own bed and must lie in it, I suppose, but Clinton’s America was a great one and I wish he was remembered for it. Eh, Clinton kinda got lucky with the 90s tech boom. I don't think too many of his policies can be directly linked to the boom the economy saw during the decade. |
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Post by impulse on Nov 15, 2018 10:46:44 GMT -5
I find it extremely sad that all he seems to be remembered for is his stupid extra-marital affair between consenting adults. He made his own bed and must lie in it, I suppose, but Clinton’s America was a great one and I wish he was remembered for it. I remember all the pearl-clutching about morality at the time and the absurd investigation. Not saying it was a great thing to do, but sex between consenting adults is a far cry from the "grab em by the *****, moved on her like a b****" current president who evangelicals fawn over. Once again, the morality double standard by the party of "family values" is disgusting. What history remembers Nixon for is the illegal invasion of Cambodia during the Vietnam War, surrounding himself with racists like Spiro Agnew, disenfranchising black voters, Watergate (and his attendant resignation), and generally being "Tricky" Dick. I'm not saying that that isn't the right way to view his Presidency, but a little more focus on some of the positives of his term in office wouldn't go amiss either. Life isn't black & white. Now take all of that bad stuff and multiply it tenfold, but leave out all of the good and you have Trump's presidency to date which is why I find it mind-boggling anyone is still supporting him at this time, least of all conservatives because he is a TERRIBLE conservative. Eh, Clinton kinda got lucky with the 90s tech boom. I don't think too many of his policies can be directly linked to the boom the economy saw during the decade. I mean, that's true of basically every president, i.e. the economy largely has little to do with them, but that doesn't stop people from assigning credit or blame. Case in point, Trump inherited Obama's growing economy that dug us out of that horrible recession and his supports are happy to give him credit. Like, yeah, congrats for not screwing up a massive thing that was already in motion before you got here that you have little to no control over. Well, except for those tariffs. Those are going to be fun. |
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Post by Hoosier X on Nov 15, 2018 11:34:02 GMT -5
@transcendentalmental WarmongerI am very sorry that I said all Trump supporters are racist. Racism is a horrible and awful thing, and glibly accusing all the members of a group of being racist is a terrible thing to do. The mods have been very generous in giving me a chance to apologize for my hurtful comments. I very much appreciate the chance to make amends and I hope we can put this ugly incident behind us. From now on, if I ever post in the politics thread again, I will be sure to treat all political ideas as valid and worthy of respect. Hoosier X |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Nov 15, 2018 12:00:52 GMT -5
@transcendentalmental Warmonger I am very sorry that I said all Trump supporters are racist. Racism is a horrible and awful thing, and glibly accusing all the members of a group of being racist is a terrible thing to do. The mods have been very generous in giving me a chance to apologize for my hurtful comments. I very much appreciate the chance to make amends and I hope we can put this ugly incident behind us. From now on, if I ever post in the politics thread again, I will be sure to treat all political ideas as valid and worthy of respect. Hoosier X The apology is cool. But the last part. Just no. Not all political ideas are valid nor are they all worthy of respect. There was a big old world-wide war about that. Millions died. So...no. |
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Post by impulse on Nov 15, 2018 12:06:10 GMT -5
@transcendentalmental Warmonger I am very sorry that I said all Trump supporters are racist. Racism is a horrible and awful thing, and glibly accusing all the members of a group of being racist is a terrible thing to do. The mods have been very generous in giving me a chance to apologize for my hurtful comments. I very much appreciate the chance to make amends and I hope we can put this ugly incident behind us. From now on, if I ever post in the politics thread again, I will be sure to treat all political ideas as valid and worthy of respect. Hoosier X The apology is cool. But the last part. Just no. Not all political ideas are valid nor are they all worthy of respect. There was a big old world-wide war about that. Millions died. So...no. Could not agree more. |
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