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Post by Roquefort Raider on Dec 7, 2018 19:55:14 GMT -5
Nobody thought Iran was giving up nukes forever and ever just because of a signature; the deal was a time-gaining measure that satisfied all parties involved and was therefore more likely to be honoured.
I think Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, unveiled a cache of documents that, he claimed, showed how Iran was already cheating on the agreement with a secret Iranian nuclear weapons programme.
Should Benji's intelligence be dismissed and discarded from all consideration?
No, but neither should it be accepted as Gospel because he has been known to lie in the past about Iran, which is a serious regional competitor. Also, the IAEA which is neutral on the issue says that Iran is complying with the terms of the accord. www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-nuclear/iran-is-complying-with-nuclear-deal-restrictions-iaea-report-idUSKCN1LF1KR
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Dec 7, 2018 19:57:15 GMT -5
According to BBC News:-
Foreign ministry spokesman Bahram Ghasemi described Mr Netanyahu as an "infamous liar who has had nothing to offer except lies and deceits".
His accusations, he continued, were "worn-out, useless and shameful".
Foreign Minister Javad Zarif said the documents produced by Israel were a rehash of old allegations already dealt with by the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), the UN's nuclear watchdog.
So your consensus is, you'd put more faith in Ghasemi than Benji? Yes/No?
Neither. I don’t trust Iran to say the truth about Israel and I don’t trust Israel to say the truth about Iran. The two countries are enemies and are going to do their utmost to discredit the other, which is par for course in international politics. When it comes to atomic energy, I trust the IAEA.
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Post by Hoosier X on Dec 7, 2018 20:04:35 GMT -5
According to BBC News:-
Foreign ministry spokesman Bahram Ghasemi described Mr Netanyahu as an "infamous liar who has had nothing to offer except lies and deceits".
His accusations, he continued, were "worn-out, useless and shameful".
Foreign Minister Javad Zarif said the documents produced by Israel were a rehash of old allegations already dealt with by the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), the UN's nuclear watchdog.
So your consensus is, you'd put more faith in Ghasemi than Benji? Yes/No?
I don't know whether or not Ghasemi is more reliable than Netanyahu. I'd say that odds are in Ghasemi's favor because Netanyahu is a notorious and profligate liar. Like the time he spread that very malicious slander that the Palestinians gave Hitler the idea for the Holocaust. Thinking that Netanyahu is a liar has nothing to do with anything that Ghasemi said.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2018 20:33:48 GMT -5
Sorry guys but honestly this thread is an echo chamber for all of you with democratic party beliefs. If anyone says anything outside those beliefs you all dogpile on him or her. It's hard to put your self out there when the other side really has no interest on hearing a different view point. I also really don't care about b***ching about Trump since it really doesn't accomplish anything. And I am losing respect for some of you that I enjoy talking about comics with. So for my own sanity and to continue to enjoy this forum I am going to avoid this thread.
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Post by beccabear67 on Dec 7, 2018 21:42:09 GMT -5
In Quebec we pay nothing at all. People in BC should protest and not let the government get away with it! In the last two years my mother underwent cancer surgery, then chemotherapy, then paliative care in a wonderful pavillion until her death. At the same time, I got three surgeries after a bicycle accident that required a lot of metal pieces being inserted and removed. We did not pay one penny (except the parking at the hospital). There was no waiting list because in each case it was an emergency. That’s how things should be! (Perhaps our prime minister should hear of it... he could then deflect any criticism by saying “well, it’s worse on the other side of the country!”) We may be the last province to have directly billed people, according to income, for the Medical Services Plan. That ended since an NDP and Green Party coalition took power, so most people in B.C. now have no direct connection to paying for MSP health care coverage, it's done by the employer, only the self employed might know what they are paying into the system. I don't know how it works for a Quebeccer (Quebecois), but I did visit a specialist near Laval once years ago and at that time the transportation costs were all mine (this too changed shortly after, though I didn't qualify for reimbursement as it was not retroactive). Our Emergency areas out here are pretty bad, an hour wait is considered quick and there are routinely people in hallways after admission for lack of ward beds. There is a crisis for years where there are not enough doctors and at least a fifth of the population doesn't have and can't get a General Practitioner or family doctor. I hate to suggest it but if things are so much different in Quebec it could be that more is spent on it as it represents a political necessity. Our prime minister has put an oil pipeline he used government fund to buy into, to sell and ship more oil to Asia, ahead of the killer whales. His father gave the west a raised middle finger once, not sure his son would ever do the same though literally. We also used to have fees for clinic visits, so that's another thing they did get rid of here too, but now we're limited to a certain number of doctor and specialist visits in a year which was not the case that I know of before. You can get a voucher for ferry transport to see a medical specialist in another area, but very difficult to get other transport costs paid (I got a taxi voucher once but paid for the buses too many times to count and trains a couple of times). Also we pay for a few hundred dollars of prescription pharmaceuticals before some of it starts to get covered, dispensing fees are not covered, nothing used to be covered at all here, having anything partially paid for near the end of the year is relatively new for me, except for exceptions. But you won't go bankrupt, that part is different than the U.S. was, but hospital cafeteria food here is almost made to make you ill compared to U.S. hospital food (ours was contracted out to some massive Asian owned processed food corporation years ago). If you have money or a good plan the U.S. cancer patient (my fiancee who sadly eventually died of cancer) gets in very very quickly. When my Mother was diagnosed with cancer twice (she is still alive though) she waited weeks for a specialist and then two months give or take a week or so for surgery, and it is even longer now.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Dec 7, 2018 23:36:13 GMT -5
Pulling out of the Iran deal. Recognizing Jerusalem as Israel's. Getting people engaged in politics instead of usual apathy. Iran is a mess. I hope there's an alternative to the deal though, because we do need to be doing something. As far as Jerusalem goes, I actually think that's a terrible idea. Since I've been old enough to look into it, I've found that the Israeli government is just about as bad as as Palestinian terrorist. I think a problem with our Middle Eastern relations is we always go into it considering Israel the 'good guys' and Palestine the 'bad guys' when we (or whoever) should be there as a mediator. That's not Trump's fault though, Presidents from both parties have been doing the same for years. I have mixed feelings about the NATO thing. On the one hand, it seems pretty logical. On the other hand, the reality of NATO is that we (the US) are cementing allies in Europe against Russia. If we're making them pay for the privilege, maybe they don't really need to be our allies. If one thinks Russia is no longer a threat and we don't really need that sort of close alliance... I'd feel better about it if the Russian investigation wasn't a thing. I certainly don't believe that Trump is taking orders from Putin or anything so direct, but the business connections are there, and that is cause for concern, IMO.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Dec 7, 2018 23:45:00 GMT -5
Waiting for 4th quarter GDP results which should be available early next year. In the 3rd quarter (Jul-Sept), ecomomic growth was put at 3.5%, well above what economists estimated would be in the vicinity of 2%. This was a bit lower than the 2nd quarter where the economy grew at a 4.2%. While businesses accumulated inventory at a faster pace and spent more on equipment than initially thought in the 3rd quarter, that was offset by downward revisions to consumer spending and exports. Why do I raise the specter of Obama? Simple. Because he's still in the spotlight, talking to anyone who will listen and trying to raise the bogey of being responsible for the current economic 'boom'. And yet under his administration, the economy slowed to a far less impressive growth of 1.6%. In the eight years under President Obama's leadership, the economy struggled to even top 2% annual growth. It never reached 3%. And every single year GDP growth missed the forecasts by Obama's own economists. Do I think the economy is far better under Trump? Yes. Perfect? No. The recent GM shitfest is an example. 2019 will be the best indicator to see him return in 2020. So are you saying you think Trump's tax cut is responsible for the growth? I strongly disagree if that's the case, it's too soon for that to have taken effect... Obama's spending package is more likely to be the reason. It takes time for government actions to start taking effect. the money has to circulate through the economy. Certainly his trade policies haven't had any impact yet... I suspect that impact will be mostly negative, but we'll see. Accumulating Inventory is generally considered a bad sign.. equipment spending is good though. You could certainly argue that just by virtue of the Republicans being in office, businesses have more confidence and spend more, which helps everyone. There's lots of precedent for that. It feels alot like the 80s to me right now... Reagan's policies got things flying after the stagnation of the 70s, but we borrowed heavily do to it. That's what was great about George Bush, IMO, he was willing to bite the bullet and raise taxes when the spending benefits peetered out and it was time to pay for them. I don't think Trump is going to be willing to do that in a year or two when it'll likely be the right thing to do, which concerns me. (I'm not sure any politican in today's climate would, which is the bigger problem)
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Post by wildfire2099 on Dec 7, 2018 23:50:10 GMT -5
And as a conservative I am happy to see a less liberal direction in our policies. But that would be negative for the rest of you. I think it is good to have some different ideas to serve as a balance rather than the same direction all the time I'll definitely have to agree to disagree with you there. Today's republican's social policies are terrible.. getting to the point where even though I generally agree with them on matters of finance and foreign policy, they might be past the point I can tolerate. MY republicans from the 80s left all such things to each state to decide.. I think that's the way to go still today... the social policies that people want here in Massachusetts are very, very different from those desired by, say Iowa or Mississippi (which are also probably different from each other). That used to be a bedrock principal of the party, and I wish it still was. Today, 'conservative' has turned into 'charismatic Christian Right', whom I think can best be characterized by the Genesis song 'Jesus He Knows Me'
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Post by wildfire2099 on Dec 7, 2018 23:53:54 GMT -5
For one the ACA. It really didn't impact me but I have seen the negative effects in my job and how it affected some friends who are small business owners. It needs fixed. The ACA was a Republican policy that Obama adopted as a compromise. Mit Romney came up with the basic tenets, and we were using a variation in Massachusetts when he was governor... the ACA just made it a more friendly to lower income people. My health insurance has gone down since it's been in existence.. I think states that acutally set it up as designed did well, those that fought it and didn't suffered. I'm not married to it though, since health care is still insane... the problem is there is no replacement plan.. just getting rid of ACA when it was helping was the height of partisan politics. IF Trump, or anyone, had a good idea for an alternative, I'd be all ears.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Dec 7, 2018 23:57:00 GMT -5
Geez. Give a guy some space. I am now on vacation so I am signing off for a few days Sorry to hear that.. you posted some good stuff and I was hoping to discuss
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Post by wildfire2099 on Dec 8, 2018 0:07:04 GMT -5
This is a start. I will respectfully ask the following questions: 1. How much influence, in your estimation, does any POTUS have on the economy? 2. Follow-up: how quickly do you think a POTUS, if he does have influence on the economy, can turn things around? Obama spent most of his presidency undoing the damage from Bush II, which accounts, in part, for the less-than-robust results under him, but are we to believe Obama's actions had nothing to do with the recovery and that it is all because of POTUS Donald J. Trump? The economy is like the Titanic, slow to change course but quick to sink. 3. Who is benefiting from the growth? Young people are still having difficulty finding jobs that pay enough to cover their student loan debt, even with the low unemployment figures, and real wages have been stagnant for years. Is this a case where the rich are getting richer and the masses are falling further behind? Mind you, I'm a fiscal conservative, and up until this year, had voted Republican predominantly for the better part of the past three decades. I'm just disgusted by what the Republican Party has become, especially under POTUS Donald J. Trump, tacking harder to the right and more strongly embracing Randian philosophic tenets instead of making sure that everyone gets taken care of.
The POTUS does appoint Federal Reserve governors, steer fiscal and regulatory policy, respond to crises and external shocks, these are directly attributable to him. And the extent to which they are working is reflected in a healthy GDP. Lackluster performance makes for good ammo in any campaign, Trump used it in his and so far, his GDP returns are better than anything immediately prior to 2016. If Trump's policies do lead to a next recession, I'm sure you will be blaming him for it.
Others are disgusted by what the Republican party had become under bug-eyed gimpzoid losers like Paul Ryan. Trump was all about upsetting the status quo, not just from the Democrats but from within his own party. Still is.
Again, the jury is still out... it's takes time for economic policies to kick in . I like Powell as a replacement for Janet Yellen (though keeping Yellen would have been better)... seems like he's continuing the same long term policy. That was definitely points for Trump ... I just wish he realized that that fed reserve policy was already fixing the trade imbalances he seems so concerned about (thanks to a strengthening dollar) instead of starting a trade war with China. Booms and recessions are no ones fault, they have to happen in a free market economy. The governments job it to try to make the booms better and/or last longer, and the recessions shorter. If you go too big during a boom time, the following recession is worse.. my concern is Trump's policies might make the next recession, whenever it hits, worse because he won't raise taxes when it's time (which is very soon). It certainly won't be his fault there is one though, there certainly will be within the next 5 years no matter what anyone does.
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Post by impulse on Dec 8, 2018 0:19:55 GMT -5
Sorry guys but honestly this thread is an echo chamber for all of you with democratic party beliefs. If anyone says anything outside those beliefs you all dogpile on him or her. It's hard to put your self out there when the other side really has no interest on hearing a different view point.
The first part is neither fair nor true. There's been plenty of good discussion and debate once someone brought something to the table besides flinging poo all over the place. The second part... well, we'll say that's a rather bold perspective, and I will say it's at least as frustrating when folks support the current administration and has no interest in accepting basic objective reality. (I know you are not a fan of the current admin from your other posts). It's a shame you are bowing it, and you are absolutely mistaken that folks here are unwilling to hear an actual rational conservatives viewpoint. Folks have explicitly said so, but I completely understand having to do what you need to do.
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Post by impulse on Dec 8, 2018 0:23:41 GMT -5
The POTUS does appoint Federal Reserve governors, steer fiscal and regulatory policy, respond to crises and external shocks, these are directly attributable to him. And the extent to which they are working is reflected in a healthy GDP. Lackluster performance makes for good ammo in any campaign, Trump used it in his and so far, his GDP returns are better than anything immediately prior to 2016. If Trump's policies do lead to a next recession, I'm sure you will be blaming him for it. Others are disgusted by what the Republican party had become under bug-eyed gimpzoid losers like Paul Ryan. Trump was all about upsetting the status quo, not just from the Democrats but from within his own party. Still is.
Again, the jury is still out... it's takes time for economic policies to kick in . I like Powell as a replacement for Janet Yellen (though keeping Yellen would have been better)... seems like he's continuing the same long term policy. That was definitely points for Trump ... I just wish he realized that that fed reserve policy was already fixing the trade imbalances he seems so concerned about (thanks to a strengthening dollar) instead of starting a trade war with China. Booms and recessions are no ones fault, they have to happen in a free market economy. The governments job it to try to make the booms better and/or last longer, and the recessions shorter. If you go too big during a boom time, the following recession is worse.. my concern is Trump's policies might make the next recession, whenever it hits, worse because he won't raise taxes when it's time (which is very soon). It certainly won't be his fault there is one though, there certainly will be within the next 5 years no matter what anyone does. There is a very good chance the economy would not be doing much differently overall no matter who was elected in 2016, frankly. The short term boosts from businesses being excited Trump was going to let them raid the pantry and from the tax cut are going to end up being hiccups in the overall trend line. I suspect the Republican Congress would have done basically everything the same thing if any Republican with a pulse had won. I'm still not seeing much Trump specifically personally has done to truly improve things, though the conversation is moving in a better direction.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Dec 8, 2018 0:28:32 GMT -5
Yeah, that's true.. but he certainly could have done stuff to screw it up and he didn't... like he could have replaced Janet Yellen with someone who was going to keep interest rates at next to 0, for instance, and caused things to go out of control.
And he did put alot of effort into getting the tax cut through..its possible someone with.. lets say confidence in his ideas... might have done differently in the face of Democratic hostility.
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Post by impulse on Dec 8, 2018 0:35:18 GMT -5
You are right, but I think that further supports the idea that the president has little impact on the economy despite people loving to use it as an easy barometer to praise or knock them accordingly.
And I doubt it. The Democrats had absolutely no ability to back anything up. Republicans had the Presidency and both chambers of Congress and had been running on this stuff for years. Obviously we'll never know at this point, but I would find it highly doubtful that any Rebpublican who could have been elected in 2016 would have done anything differently on major policy moves.
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