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Post by DE Sinclair on May 6, 2015 16:22:02 GMT -5
No, but if I picked up a bad Harry Potter novel I'd likely not pick up any more. Not liking an issue of Spiderman isn't the same as not liking super heroes. In fact, not liking corporate owned studio talent comics with shared universes isn't the same as not liking super heroes. I still read Empowered. Last year I read DKSA and Weapon X. I still pick up a hero comic here and there. Bought the Batman Chronicles last Black Friday. Haven't read it yet though. I will say though, I stopped reading James Patterson books ever since they have had cowriters. And I will not read a posthumous Bourne novel written by someone other than Ludlum, or any Covert One novel. Won't read any Rainbow Six books Tom Clancy didn't write either. The entire reason those books were enjoyable were the author. Not the character. And I'm one to believe any author who spends their career as second billing on a novel about characters someone else created probably isn't that great an author. I've always been more about the story than anything else and I just imagine doing it any other way. Not saying your method is wrong, you're obviously enjoying yourself, but I just can't see why I would ever deny myself the fun of a good story for any reason. Not to put words in dupont2005's mouth, but it sounds like he's saying it's a "once bitten, twice shy" situation. He gets a bad story and is hesitant to try the series again. After all, it's hard to tell if an issue/book in a series/movie in a franchise/etc will have a good story or bad, until you've read or seen it. |
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Post by thwhtguardian on May 6, 2015 16:27:48 GMT -5
I've always been more about the story than anything else and I just imagine doing it any other way. Not saying your method is wrong, you're obviously enjoying yourself, but I just can't see why I would ever deny myself the fun of a good story for any reason. Not to put words in dupont2005's mouth, but it sounds like he's saying it's a "once bitten, twice shy" situation. He gets a bad story and is hesitant to try the series again. After all, it's hard to tell if an issue/book in a series/movie in a franchise/etc will have a good story or bad, until you've read or seen it. I don't know, for me I've seen good and bad come along and it always seems that no matter how bad a book may get it'll always get better and they only cost a few bucks so it's not a huge loss even if the book isn't stellar. In my mind comics are like pizza, some slices are certainly better than others but in the end it's still pizza and even a "bad" pizza still tastes okay and for a couple of bucks okay isn't all that bad. |
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Post by Icctrombone on May 6, 2015 17:27:44 GMT -5
Not to put words in dupont2005's mouth, but it sounds like he's saying it's a "once bitten, twice shy" situation. He gets a bad story and is hesitant to try the series again. After all, it's hard to tell if an issue/book in a series/movie in a franchise/etc will have a good story or bad, until you've read or seen it. I don't know, for me I've seen good and bad come along and it always seems that no matter how bad a book may get it'll always get better and they only cost a few bucks so it's not a huge loss even if the book isn't stellar. In my mind comics are like pizza, some slices are certainly better than others but in the end it's still pizza and even a "bad" pizza still tastes okay and for a couple of bucks okay isn't all that bad. THAT is profound. Im gonna go upstairs and hug all my comics.  |
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2015 17:54:14 GMT -5
No, but if I picked up a bad Harry Potter novel I'd likely not pick up any more. Not liking an issue of Spiderman isn't the same as not liking super heroes. In fact, not liking corporate owned studio talent comics with shared universes isn't the same as not liking super heroes. I still read Empowered. Last year I read DKSA and Weapon X. I still pick up a hero comic here and there. Bought the Batman Chronicles last Black Friday. Haven't read it yet though. I will say though, I stopped reading James Patterson books ever since they have had cowriters. And I will not read a posthumous Bourne novel written by someone other than Ludlum, or any Covert One novel. Won't read any Rainbow Six books Tom Clancy didn't write either. The entire reason those books were enjoyable were the author. Not the character. And I'm one to believe any author who spends their career as second billing on a novel about characters someone else created probably isn't that great an author. I've always been more about the story than anything else and I just imagine doing it any other way. Not saying your method is wrong, you're obviously enjoying yourself, but I just can't see why I would ever deny myself the fun of a good story for any reason. Well that's the thing. Following tried and true series with twenty to thirty years of never having a bad story because you're familiar with the creator and their work is how you guarantee a good story, or at least limit the possibility of not getting one. Buying a comic because it has your favorite childhood cartoon character does not. Even people who defend those comics say "Yeah, sometimes it's garbage, sometimes it's great, it's mostly okay though." I wouldn't say "Try Love And Rockets, it's mostly okay!" That doesn't sound like a great selling point. And this does not mean I don't try new things. I try new things all the time. If I don't like the first issue, I never pick up another one. You may look at it as me potentially missing out on a great story, eventually, somewhere down the line when the creative team changes or something. I look at it as being able to try out another series next month, increasing my odds of not missing a good story. Because we're all missing good stories, not a single one of us is reading every great comic. We all have budgets and obligations limiting our comic intake. I just try to not bother with the mostly okay and sometimes garbage comics for more than one issue, because I have a backlog of comics I'd like to eventually read extending past my likely lifespan, and it's only going to grow. |
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Post by Reptisaurus! on May 6, 2015 18:10:36 GMT -5
I've always been more about the story than anything else and I just imagine doing it any other way. Not saying your method is wrong, you're obviously enjoying yourself, but I just can't see why I would ever deny myself the fun of a good story for any reason. Well that's the thing. Following tried and true series with twenty to thirty years of never having a bad story because you're familiar with the creator and their work is how you guarantee a good story, or at least limit the possibility of not getting one. I basically agree with you. The idea of adult readers following characters over creators is a relatively new one, and one that didn't seem to exist in fandom until relatively recently (maybet the mid '80s?) ... And also something that Martine Goodman or Julie Schwartz, in their prime, would never have thought would occur. So as a classical minded comics fan reading by character feels like doing it wrong. Still, I can't think of a comic that went 20 or 30 issues without having a bad issue, let alone 20 or 30 years. |
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Post by The Captain on May 6, 2015 18:20:22 GMT -5
I'm almost 100% a Marvel guy, and my list looks like:
1. Captain America - I have an entire run of floppies of this title up through the most-recent issue of All-New Captain America.
2. Iron Man - only need #47 to have an entire run in one format or another (most of the first 35 are in Masterworks, but floppies from there up), although I gave up on Superior Iron Man after 4 issues because that wasn't really an Iron Man book.
3. Uncanny X-Men - my first love, it was the first title I ever completed a run of. I haven't picked it up regularly since the original series ended, although I will occasionally buy it out of the $1 bins if I see it.
4. Thor - I have recently been reading some of the early Lee/Kirby stuff and just loving the art. I have nearly a complete run of this, only missing a few issues in the mid-100's.
5. Moon Knight - every time they reboot the series, I pick it up, even if I know it will end quickly. I just like the character, dating back to the Moench/Sienkiewicz run.
Only books I'm buying currently are Aquaman (the only DC title I've ever purchased), Moon Knight, Star Wars, and Darth Vader since it looks like Captain America is off the publishing schedule for the time being due to Secret Wars.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2015 18:26:21 GMT -5
Well that's the thing. Following tried and true series with twenty to thirty years of never having a bad story because you're familiar with the creator and their work is how you guarantee a good story, or at least limit the possibility of not getting one. I basically agree with you. The idea of adult readers following characters over creators is a relatively new one, and one that didn't seem to exist in fandom until relatively recently (maybet the mid '80s?) ... And also something that Martine Goodman or Julie Schwartz, in their prime, would never have thought would occur. So as a classical minded comics fan reading by character feels like doing it wrong. Still, I can't think of a comic that went 20 or 30 issues without having a bad issue, let alone 20 or 30 years. I'm of the opinion that Usagi Yojimbo and Love And Rockets have not had a bad issue. I'd say the first 20 years or so of Elfquest was pretty good as well. 37 issues straight. I have liked all of Sin City, even the short stories and oneshots. I liked Fear Agent start to finish. Life With Archie, which I haven't read all of, doesn't seem to be letting up. Empowered. Akira. I've read the first three Jeremiah omnibus without complaint, and so far so good with Lone Wolf And Cub. I've only read about 15 issues of Strangers In Paradise but I doubt I'll be disappointed by the time I finish the series. Not all of those comics have been around for 30 years, but they've all done better than 660 pages without having a bad issue. |
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Post by thwhtguardian on May 6, 2015 18:33:05 GMT -5
I've always been more about the story than anything else and I just imagine doing it any other way. Not saying your method is wrong, you're obviously enjoying yourself, but I just can't see why I would ever deny myself the fun of a good story for any reason. Well that's the thing. Following tried and true series with twenty to thirty years of never having a bad story because you're familiar with the creator and their work is how you guarantee a good story, or at least limit the possibility of not getting one. Buying a comic because it has your favorite childhood cartoon character does not. Even people who defend those comics say "Yeah, sometimes it's garbage, sometimes it's great, it's mostly okay though." I wouldn't say "Try Love And Rockets, it's mostly okay!" That doesn't sound like a great selling point. And this does not mean I don't try new things. I try new things all the time. If I don't like the first issue, I never pick up another one. You may look at it as me potentially missing out on a great story, eventually, somewhere down the line when the creative team changes or something. I look at it as being able to try out another series next month, increasing my odds of not missing a good story. Because we're all missing good stories, not a single one of us is reading every great comic. We all have budgets and obligations limiting our comic intake. I just try to not bother with the mostly okay and sometimes garbage comics for more than one issue, because I have a backlog of comics I'd like to eventually read extending past my likely lifespan, and it's only going to grow. It's not really the character though, it's a set of themes and literary elements that are consistently present, much like any genre. Any given Batman book is going to have action, a little mystery and suspense and possibly a little horror or sci-fi, and you can get anything from a story about fathers and sons, coming of age to the dangers of ignorance or the destruction of beauty theme wise...all of which I enjoy so coming back again and again is likely to yield some entertainment. And doing that doesn't stop you from trying something new next month as again, I'm not advocating sticking with it month in and month out just for the heck of it but rather coming back to a series as one would a genre...and that this point with the number of Batman titles that have been published and the number of issues each of those books have run for it has the breath of a genre as well. As for the selling point being "mostly okay" you're right, that's not that great of a slogan but, "If you like action and suspense you'll probably like Batman, try issue X it's my favorite!" seems to work for most folks just fine, and the same is true for just about any title. |
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Post by Reptisaurus! on May 6, 2015 19:12:32 GMT -5
I basically agree with you. The idea of adult readers following characters over creators is a relatively new one, and one that didn't seem to exist in fandom until relatively recently (maybet the mid '80s?) ... And also something that Martine Goodman or Julie Schwartz, in their prime, would never have thought would occur. So as a classical minded comics fan reading by character feels like doing it wrong. Still, I can't think of a comic that went 20 or 30 issues without having a bad issue, let alone 20 or 30 years. I'm of the opinion that Usagi Yojimbo and Love And Rockets have not had a bad issue. I'd say the first 20 years or so of Elfquest was pretty good as well. 37 issues straight. I have liked all of Sin City, even the short stories and oneshots. I liked Fear Agent start to finish. Life With Archie, which I haven't read all of, doesn't seem to be letting up. Empowered. Akira. I've read the first three Jeremiah omnibus without complaint, and so far so good with Lone Wolf And Cub. I've only read about 15 issues of Strangers In Paradise but I doubt I'll be disappointed by the time I finish the series. Not all of those comics have been around for 30 years, but they've all done better than 660 pages without having a bad issue. Contrarily, I've hated bits and pieces of all of those - I'm kind of a finnicky comicer - except: (A) I haven't read Jeremiah, (B) Akira was good, but it was all one story, and wasn't really THAT long, and (C) Life with Archie. I've liked everything I've read. I guess I'd make an exception for long running titles that are all one story, especially Manga. There are about 15 issues of Sandman I think are the pits, but I have liked the first thirty volumes of One Piece quite a bit - although I'm, like, 50 volumes behind. |
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2015 19:39:25 GMT -5
Well that's the thing. Following tried and true series with twenty to thirty years of never having a bad story because you're familiar with the creator and their work is how you guarantee a good story, or at least limit the possibility of not getting one. Buying a comic because it has your favorite childhood cartoon character does not. Even people who defend those comics say "Yeah, sometimes it's garbage, sometimes it's great, it's mostly okay though." I wouldn't say "Try Love And Rockets, it's mostly okay!" That doesn't sound like a great selling point. And this does not mean I don't try new things. I try new things all the time. If I don't like the first issue, I never pick up another one. You may look at it as me potentially missing out on a great story, eventually, somewhere down the line when the creative team changes or something. I look at it as being able to try out another series next month, increasing my odds of not missing a good story. Because we're all missing good stories, not a single one of us is reading every great comic. We all have budgets and obligations limiting our comic intake. I just try to not bother with the mostly okay and sometimes garbage comics for more than one issue, because I have a backlog of comics I'd like to eventually read extending past my likely lifespan, and it's only going to grow. It's not really the character though, it's a set of themes and literary elements that are consistently present, much like any genre. Any given Batman book is going to have action, a little mystery and suspense and possibly a little horror or sci-fi, and you can get anything from a story about fathers and sons, coming of age to the dangers of ignorance or the destruction of beauty theme wise...all of which I enjoy so coming back again and again is likely to yield some entertainment. And doing that doesn't stop you from trying something new next month as again, I'm not advocating sticking with it month in and month out just for the heck of it but rather coming back to a series as one would a genre...and that this point with the number of Batman titles that have been published and the number of issues each of those books have run for it has the breath of a genre as well. As for the selling point being "mostly okay" you're right, that's not that great of a slogan but, "If you like action and suspense you'll probably like Batman, try issue X it's my favorite!" seems to work for most folks just fine, and the same is true for just about any title. But if I don't read Batman, I can still read action. I read lots of action. I'd say it's probably the most common genre of comic I do read. |
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Post by Icctrombone on May 6, 2015 19:43:25 GMT -5
I don't think it's possible to have any run of any entertainment medium where every episode/issue was good.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2015 19:44:26 GMT -5
I'm of the opinion that Usagi Yojimbo and Love And Rockets have not had a bad issue. I'd say the first 20 years or so of Elfquest was pretty good as well. 37 issues straight. I have liked all of Sin City, even the short stories and oneshots. I liked Fear Agent start to finish. Life With Archie, which I haven't read all of, doesn't seem to be letting up. Empowered. Akira. I've read the first three Jeremiah omnibus without complaint, and so far so good with Lone Wolf And Cub. I've only read about 15 issues of Strangers In Paradise but I doubt I'll be disappointed by the time I finish the series. Not all of those comics have been around for 30 years, but they've all done better than 660 pages without having a bad issue. Contrarily, I've hated bits and pieces of all of those - I'm kind of a finnicky comicer - except: (A) I haven't read Jeremiah, (B) Akira was good, but it was all one story, and wasn't really THAT long, and (C) Life with Archie. I've liked everything I've read. I guess I'd make an exception for long running titles that are all one story, especially Manga. There are about 15 issues of Sandman I think are the pits, but I have liked the first thirty volumes of One Piece quite a bit - although I'm, like, 50 volumes behind. I know some people didn't like the Mirage run of Usagi, and I'll say the quality varies. But it varies from good to great. Akira was 38 oversized issues at Epic, I don't know the exact page count, but they were definitely thicker than the standard 22 pages. I'd say easily a 50 issue run if they were standard sized ad filled floppies. Jeremiah is one where you have to look past some cultural differences and translating quirks. I mean, the translation was not bad, but if you read manga you know what I mean, and if you like manga I'm sure you know those quirks don't make a good story bad. And there's plenty more to add to the list too, that was just off the top of my head. But there's Blacksad, Baker Street, Omaha, Groo, plenty of series where I could read every issue start to finish and enjoy them all. They might not all be the greatest issue, but if I were to recommend a series it wouldn't be issues 122-188, it would be the first issue to the final issue usually. If not, the first issue to the point where it started to suck, in the case of Elfquest. |
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Post by thwhtguardian on May 6, 2015 19:46:24 GMT -5
It's not really the character though, it's a set of themes and literary elements that are consistently present, much like any genre. Any given Batman book is going to have action, a little mystery and suspense and possibly a little horror or sci-fi, and you can get anything from a story about fathers and sons, coming of age to the dangers of ignorance or the destruction of beauty theme wise...all of which I enjoy so coming back again and again is likely to yield some entertainment. And doing that doesn't stop you from trying something new next month as again, I'm not advocating sticking with it month in and month out just for the heck of it but rather coming back to a series as one would a genre...and that this point with the number of Batman titles that have been published and the number of issues each of those books have run for it has the breath of a genre as well. As for the selling point being "mostly okay" you're right, that's not that great of a slogan but, "If you like action and suspense you'll probably like Batman, try issue X it's my favorite!" seems to work for most folks just fine, and the same is true for just about any title. But if I don't read Batman, I can still read action. I read lots of action. I'd say it's probably the most common genre of comic I do read. It's fairly common, and there are other options but at the same time I can't see anything wrong with continuing to try Batman even after dropping because in general it has a lot of what I enjoy. Could I find it else where? Absolutely, and I do but at the same time when browsing randomly through back issue boxes it's pretty convenient to pick up a Batman issue as no matter which one I grab I have a pretty good idea what to expect in much the same way I would if looking for a random mystery story I'd go to that section of the book store. |
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Post by thwhtguardian on May 6, 2015 19:49:14 GMT -5
Contrarily, I've hated bits and pieces of all of those - I'm kind of a finnicky comicer - except: (A) I haven't read Jeremiah, (B) Akira was good, but it was all one story, and wasn't really THAT long, and (C) Life with Archie. I've liked everything I've read. I guess I'd make an exception for long running titles that are all one story, especially Manga. There are about 15 issues of Sandman I think are the pits, but I have liked the first thirty volumes of One Piece quite a bit - although I'm, like, 50 volumes behind. I know some people didn't like the Mirage run of Usagi, and I'll say the quality varies. But it varies from good to great. Akira was 38 oversized issues at Epic, I don't know the exact page count, but they were definitely thicker than the standard 22 pages. I'd say easily a 50 issue run if they were standard sized ad filled floppies. Jeremiah is one where you have to look past some cultural differences and translating quirks. I mean, the translation was not bad, but if you read manga you know what I mean, and if you like manga I'm sure you know those quirks don't make a good story bad. And there's plenty more to add to the list too, that was just off the top of my head. But there's Blacksad, Baker Street, Omaha, Groo, plenty of series where I could read every issue start to finish and enjoy them all. They might not all be the greatest issue, but if I were to recommend a series it wouldn't be issues 122-188, it would be the first issue to the final issue usually. If not, the first issue to the point where it started to suck, in the case of Elfquest. Why not? If it's a good story, it's a good story no matter if the proceeding or preceding ones weren't that great. |
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2015 20:27:33 GMT -5
I know some people didn't like the Mirage run of Usagi, and I'll say the quality varies. But it varies from good to great. Akira was 38 oversized issues at Epic, I don't know the exact page count, but they were definitely thicker than the standard 22 pages. I'd say easily a 50 issue run if they were standard sized ad filled floppies. Jeremiah is one where you have to look past some cultural differences and translating quirks. I mean, the translation was not bad, but if you read manga you know what I mean, and if you like manga I'm sure you know those quirks don't make a good story bad. And there's plenty more to add to the list too, that was just off the top of my head. But there's Blacksad, Baker Street, Omaha, Groo, plenty of series where I could read every issue start to finish and enjoy them all. They might not all be the greatest issue, but if I were to recommend a series it wouldn't be issues 122-188, it would be the first issue to the final issue usually. If not, the first issue to the point where it started to suck, in the case of Elfquest. Why not? If it's a good story, it's a good story no matter if the proceeding or preceding ones weren't that great. Because in my experience those good stories refer back to a whole lot of not good stories you'd have had to have read to know what was going on. And like I said, there are countless good stories out there I haven't read where I wouldn't have to deal with that. I'll never get to read them all. A better question is why read just okay, or bad stories, hoping it eventually gets good again, when you could be reading a good story from another title right now instead? |
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