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Post by Icctrombone on May 10, 2015 6:59:15 GMT -5
I picked up Secret Wars #1 today and Had to read it twice to figure out what was happening. I stopped buying New Avengers from my LCS and have been reading the digital version from Marvel Unlimited. MU is 6 months behind, I think.
SPOILERS:
It seems that the last two remaining earths from the Incursion Storyline are the 616 and Ultimate worlds.
Reed Richards is escaping via spacecraft with people he thinks he can start a new world with. Black Widow is in another spacecraft collecting others as well. The Ultimate earth is attacking 616 in order to survive but is outnumbered by the amount of heroes it has. They launch a second attack which destroys Widows ship and the various scientists that they were carrying. Plan B is enacted where Reed and Tchalla transport some of the heroes onto their ship. I saw Ms. Marvel, Starlord,Female Thor, Spider-man and Cyclops. Reeds ship is hit by energy ( I'm assuming the ongoing attack from U Universe ) and it's split leaving Sue and his children drifting away in another section of the ship. Reed tries to reach them but fails and they disappear. The last few pages shows both the Ultimate Universe and the 616 ending. The Final page is a blank white page that says;
THE MARVEL UNIVERSE
1961-2015
THE ULTIMATE UNIVERSE
2000-2015
END OF SPOILERS:
I'm not sure if it was because I hadn't kept up with the Incursion saga or poor storytelling but I had to read it more than a few times to make out what happened. For a #1 to essentially drop you off in the middle of a storyline, it makes the mini already problematic for new readers.
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Post by Spike-X on May 11, 2015 4:32:22 GMT -5
Comics fans. Boy, I dunno. They say they want continuity, then when they get it, they complain they don't know what's happening because they haven't read the other comics with that story.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2015 5:17:34 GMT -5
Comics fans. Boy, I dunno. They say they want continuity, then when they get it, they complain they don't know what's happening because they haven't read the other comics with that story. This is my wife's general reaction when she hears people talking like that...  She loves super-heroes and comics in general (moreso when told in other mediums though), but has little patience for fanboy whine and fanboy wank stories as she puts it. Her reaction to a lot of modern comic stories is that they start as a couple of guys in the back of a comic shop going wouldn't it be cool if... heh heh heh (best Beavis and Butthead imitation laugh), instead of starting from the premise of what would make a good and satisfying story... and then have to wonder why the story is so bad and unsatisfying to others. -M |
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Post by Spike-X on May 11, 2015 5:26:19 GMT -5
Not really sure what that has to do with anything I said, but you got to use your cute lil' picture, so good for you I guess. I'm also not really sure when 'disagreeing with somebody's complaints about something' became whining. Hell, I'm one of the few readers over forty (not just here, but in general) who's not constantly bitching about everything Marvel does, it seems.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2015 5:36:00 GMT -5
Not really sure what that has to do with anything I said, but you got to use your cute lil' picture, so good for you I guess. I'm also not really sure when 'disagreeing with somebody's complaints about something' became whining. Hell, I'm one of the few readers over forty (not just here, but in general) who's not constantly bitching about everything Marvel does, it seems. It's the dichotomy of I want continuity except when continuity is inconvenient to me that becomes a whine for me... a continuous I want this, I get it and yet I still complain cycle that seems so prevalent. Not saying that was your reaction, but the comment on people saying they want continuity then complaining about continuity sparked it... -M |
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Post by Jesse on May 11, 2015 6:30:13 GMT -5
I was surprised at how much I enjoyed this and I pretty much hated the idea of them ending their universe as one of the draws for me to Marvel was everything from the Silver Age still being cannon. I agree that if people haven't been reading Avengers and New Avengers they might be a little lost here as this event is pretty much the culmination of both those runs. It's also probably a good idea to read the Free Comic Book Day Secret Wars #0 issue before reading this.
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Post by Icctrombone on May 11, 2015 6:40:28 GMT -5
My original post was speaking more against mini series that don't have a beginning ,middle, and end. This mini ,when it becomes collected, will be dropping a new reader in the end of a three year storyline. That's what issue #1 did for me. And I HAD read most of the previous 3 years.
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Post by wildfire2099 on May 11, 2015 11:32:06 GMT -5
I'm not really planning on reading the actual Secret Wars series (I'm done with events), but from what people have said, it sounds like Secret Wars #1 really should have been the last issue of New Avengers, or perhaps an Avengers/New Avengers Special/One-Shot, rather than Secret Wars #1.
As far as Continuity goes, it's definitely a fine line between respecting the past and using it too much. When I talk about continuity, I mean I want the Tony Stark that appears in Avengers to be the same Tony Stark that appears in Iron Man. And I want to be able to say 'Tony's appearance in Avengers #321 takes places between Iron Man #251-252'. I also want character changes to be logical and consistent, rather than at the whim of different writers. I don't care so much if Cap has red boots on pg. 5 and blue boots on pg. 8.. that sorta thing is a bit annoying, but not a big deal. When there's one team of Avengers running around in Thor, which is different than the one in the Avengers book, which is also different from the Uncanny Avengers, but, say, Hawkeye is in all of them, it makes me crazy! How hard is it for someone at Marvel to say to all the writers and artists: For any cameos, the current Avengers line up is X, the current X-Men line up is Y, don't use Venom for the next 5 months because he's in space, etc. That should happen every month... it's not alot of work, and would make things SO much better.
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Post by dupersuper on May 11, 2015 17:06:47 GMT -5
My original post was speaking more against mini series that don't have a beginning ,middle, and end. This mini ,when it becomes collected, will be dropping a new reader in the end of a three year storyline. That's what issue #1 did for me. And I HAD read most of the previous 3 years. I can definitely see how any one who hasn't been reading Hickmans Avengers stuff (Avengers/New Avengers/Avengers World/Infinity) would be completely lost. For that reason it was a poor way to begin an event. Fortunately, I have been reading (and loving) Hickmans Avengers, so I'm good...and surely we can all agree that that's the most important thing. |
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Post by Paste Pot Paul on May 24, 2015 17:17:12 GMT -5
I picked up Secret Wars #1 today and Had to read it twice to figure out what was happening. I stopped buying New Avengers from my LCS and have been reading the digital version from Marvel Unlimited. MU is 6 months behind, I think. I'm not sure if it was because I hadn't kept up with the Incursion saga or poor storytelling but I had to read it more than a few times to make out what happened. For a #1 to essentially drop you off in the middle of a storyline, it makes the mini already problematic for new readers. Mate I respect a lot of what you say here, usually, however this falls into the realm of ... I'll moan and complain about a writer, stop buying his book before the story ends, then get the book which is the culmination of 3 years work, heavily written up as such, and moan and complain about not understanding. You also seem to have done this in a way that reads like you're vindicated, all those wasted months on a story you hated come down to a story you hate...ha ha...I was right...its rubbish. If you didnt like his story enough to stop buying the book months ago, WHY buy this seemingly just so you can complain about it. Comics fans. Boy, I dunno. They say they want continuity, then when they get it, they complain they don't know what's happening because they haven't read the other comics with that story. Right on the money Spike, is there a group of fans so happy to be miserable as we are...sports fans maybe  Comics fans. Boy, I dunno. They say they want continuity, then when they get it, they complain they don't know what's happening because they haven't read the other comics with that story. This is my wife's general reaction when she hears people talking like that... She loves super-heroes and comics in general (moreso when told in other mediums though), but has little patience for fanboy whine and fanboy wank stories as she puts it. Her reaction to a lot of modern comic stories is that they start as a couple of guys in the back of a comic shop going wouldn't it be cool if... heh heh heh (best Beavis and Butthead imitation laugh), instead of starting from the premise of what would make a good and satisfying story... and then have to wonder why the story is so bad and unsatisfying to others. -M mrp, the only way your post makes sense is if its aimed at Icctrombone because IMHO that's where all the whining is coming from. dupersuper, glad you jumped in here mate to defend the current Avengers saga, I've read and enjoyed most of it. It has had its issues but is far from the worst Marvel has put out under their banner, so much of OUR beloved "classic" age Avengers books were, and still are, rubbish. I'm really enjoying this Secret Wars so far, much more than I thought I would, though I've always been a sucker for alternate stories. As to where it takes the Marvel Universe, well who knows yet, but these books have been a nice surprise so it lends me a little hope that they can spin a cohesive world out of the aftermath. i certainly hope its better than what Convergence seems to be doing to DCland. |
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Post by Icctrombone on May 24, 2015 20:10:17 GMT -5
I picked up Secret Wars #1 today and Had to read it twice to figure out what was happening. I stopped buying New Avengers from my LCS and have been reading the digital version from Marvel Unlimited. MU is 6 months behind, I think. I'm not sure if it was because I hadn't kept up with the Incursion saga or poor storytelling but I had to read it more than a few times to make out what happened. For a #1 to essentially drop you off in the middle of a storyline, it makes the mini already problematic for new readers. Mate I respect a lot of what you say here, usually, however this falls into the realm of ... I'll moan and complain about a writer, stop buying his book before the story ends, then get the book which is the culmination of 3 years work, heavily written up as such, and moan and complain about not understanding. You also seem to have done this in a way that reads like you're vindicated, all those wasted months on a story you hated come down to a story you hate...ha ha...I was right...its rubbish. If you didnt like his story enough to stop buying the book months ago, WHY buy this seemingly just so you can complain about it. Comics fans. Boy, I dunno. They say they want continuity, then when they get it, they complain they don't know what's happening because they haven't read the other comics with that story. Right on the money Spike, is there a group of fans so happy to be miserable as we are...sports fans maybe This is my wife's general reaction when she hears people talking like that... She loves super-heroes and comics in general (moreso when told in other mediums though), but has little patience for fanboy whine and fanboy wank stories as she puts it. Her reaction to a lot of modern comic stories is that they start as a couple of guys in the back of a comic shop going wouldn't it be cool if... heh heh heh (best Beavis and Butthead imitation laugh), instead of starting from the premise of what would make a good and satisfying story... and then have to wonder why the story is so bad and unsatisfying to others. -M mrp, the only way your post makes sense is if its aimed at Icctrombone because IMHO that's where all the whining is coming from. dupersuper, glad you jumped in here mate to defend the current Avengers saga, I've read and enjoyed most of it. It has had its issues but is far from the worst Marvel has put out under their banner, so much of OUR beloved "classic" age Avengers books were, and still are, rubbish. I'm really enjoying this Secret Wars so far, much more than I thought I would, though I've always been a sucker for alternate stories. As to where it takes the Marvel Universe, well who knows yet, but these books have been a nice surprise so it lends me a little hope that they can spin a cohesive world out of the aftermath. i certainly hope its better than what Convergence seems to be doing to DCland. Hmmmm, I think I will jump in and respond to this. I , like dupersuper, followed and read the New Avengers incursion story and I enjoyed it. I stopped buying the title because it was too long without a payoff in sight at 4 dollars a pop. My opinion about the new Secret Wars series is that a person walking into Barnes and No ez seeing he collected edition will buy it and scratch their heads wondering what happened before page 1. To me, as a tpb it becomes a fail. If you buy Watchmen , DKR or even the first Secret Wars, you need not buy any additional materials to get a complete story. Whinning ? I don't think so. |
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Post by Nowhere Man on May 25, 2015 2:15:00 GMT -5
I think the critiques of the poor storytelling are valid. I've long held the belief that many techniques, like decompression, were instituted primarily to make things easier to write from a plotting perspective (just stretch out the villains plot to 6 or 12 issues) and to get fans to double-dip in buying the single issues as well as the trade. How many times have we heard "It'll read better in the trade."?
As far as Secret Wars dropping readers in at the end of Hickman's Avengers stuff, I think it signals a few things. First, it's clear that Marvel isn't attempting to sell comics to casual fans anymore. This sort of thing would have been unthinkable in the 80's. This event is clearly for long-time fans who have been following the comics for at least the last several years. Second, I believe the motive for making the issue so confusing was to get people to go back and buy Hickman's Avengers work so they can get a complete story. I'm sure they'll be releasing a pricey omnibus of Hickman's complete run very soon, if they haven't already. There is a method to this madness.
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Post by Icctrombone on May 25, 2015 4:18:33 GMT -5
I agree , Trebor. If Jim Shooter was dead, he would be turning in his grave. Although he was resented while he was EIC, he espoused a complete story with a beginning middle and end. And also, I vote with my money. I don't continue to support titles " just because" anymore. I could see myself dropping this new mini.
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Post by Nowhere Man on May 25, 2015 6:30:35 GMT -5
I'm pretty much done with Marvel and DC (I tried and tried with New 52 Batman, Silver Surfer, etc.) save for sampling intriguing new titles with Marvel Unlimited and Comixology. The problem I have is that I've long since lost the "feel" of the old Marvel Universe...if that makes any sense. The Marvel Universe, particularly from 1965-1983, was just a much more dynamic and fun place to visit. Not to mention that the characters were far more heroic and you actually had more variety.
Really, the last time I cared about the universe proper was during the Heroes Return era. Most of the current writers leave me cold as ice, to be quite honest. They either seem overly cynical, pale imitations of Alan Moore and Frank Miller, or so "fanboy" that they make my eyes roll. Civil War was the real breaking point for me. The Illuminati stuff is so wrong headed a concept for mainstream superheroes. That said, I love many of the newer artists. I think the art, overall, is better than ever. (The storytelling is often poor, but I'm starting to think that this had more to do with the writers and editorial mandates.)
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Post by Icctrombone on May 25, 2015 8:30:47 GMT -5
Yeah, initially, the concept of the illuminati was interesting. It was a meeting of leaders to help resolve some matters but , just like any Unchecked authority, they spun out of control. I think I agree that the MU is a less likable place these days.
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